Is any religion better than any other? Can any faith guarantee mental and spiritual uplift?

[whirlingmerc]

In the long run, in eternity, Christianty can

In the short term and here and now there are many difficulties and the apostles said
through many troubles we will enter the kingdom of God

 

[whirlingmerc]

I would say there is a measure of hope in Christianity even in the midst of difficulties
'the son of righteousness will rise with healing in his wings' and you will be like 'calves breaking out of their [dreary] stalls and leaping and jumping in the light of the rising of the sun of righteousness'
The hope sustains even in difficulties

Major points close the Old Testament as told by Malichi

 

[sayak83]

Arthra says and I quote:

" People of course over time have sometimes exploited religion for their own purposes as a class and sought to use religion to dominate or control others... When this has occurred a new revelation or if you will a kind of Divine response occurs exposing these errors. I'm thinking here of well-known examples... such as the exposure of the Brahmins by Siddartha Gautama the Buddha and the exposure of the Pharisees by Jesus Christ."

and:

"My response to the above is that religion is revealed for the conditions of the time it is revealed... as conditions change new revelations are manifest... so no one religion is "perfect" for all time.."

This response from Arthra, reminds me of a person to person dialogue at Bombay in September 1973 at the Asiatic Society auditorium, with an Iranian theologist and preacher Mr, Shoghi Affendi. He had answered my questions in Persian as I had addressed to him in in that language.

He had said that God's messages will be manifest to the humans of the world in future times when the world starts getting endangered due to religion-based calamities.

That is what Krishna says in the Geeta that I shall arrive as an Avatar on this earth whenever the Dharma (religion or religious order) gets weakened.

5000 years or so has passed and in India where Krishna had said these lines (declaring himself as God which I personally do not accept) and nothing ahs changed in that nation's religious mindset that believed then and believes still, that a man is distinct and revered by the virtue of his being born in a higher caste (a Brahmin and a Kshatriya) due to his piety in his past lives and into a lower caste (a Dalit, a Shudra) because of his sins in his past lives. A lower caste Hindu is still subjected to insults and social oppressions by and large, despite the constitution that prohibits casteism. The greedy and characterless politicians that have ruled the nation since its independence in 1947, have kept that caste identity and discrimination alive even now because of getting sectarian and parochial support from the caste-divided nation during the Parliamentary and the Legislative Assembly polls and has made all governmental job selection subject to reservations on this caste identity. A man gets his appointment to and promotions in his governmental duties, not because of his education. expertise and experience but because he carries to a lower caste identity. This has and will continue to be a barrier to India's progress.

So my brother Arthra, when will the divine revelations manifest? The time runs short.

Technically the world is far from endangered from any religion based calamities. The world is actually flourishing far more than anytime in the past historical record. Thus there is zero cause for any radical divine intervention. There is sufficient knowledge and guidance out there for humans to choose to live justly and create a flourishing society, whether we do it or not is upto us. Humans are responsible for sorting out their own problems, if some extinction level calamity arises, then it's a different matter.

 

[Ponder This]

Four mean happened to be traveling together when they came upon a stranger who offered them grapes or halvah.

All four wanted grapes, but each man spoke a different language. And so each man used a different word for what he wanted. The four men could not agree and so none of them got grapes.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

Sounds like some dumb, un-resourceful men. All it would take is pointing to the grapes, nodding, and pointing to oneself.

 

[Muslim-UK]

Sounds like some dumb, un-resourceful men. All it would take is pointing to the grapes, nodding, and pointing to oneself.

Perhaps they were drunk on fermented grapes.

 

[whirlingmerc]

If you take the position Jesus did that 'by their fruits you will know them'
that suggests you can look at aspects of the life of a teacher that may validate or invalidate their claims

Do you see peacemaking, reconciliation, mercy
Do you see strife, disrespect of those different
Do you see kindness or abrasiveness
Etc...

 

[proudpagan]

Recently on a social media webpage, I saw a heated love/hate debate and frantic appeals by two followers of different faiths to their opposers to shun their faith and embrace the one that was being offered.

Let us name them here as X a Hindu and Y a Muslim.

I too was a participant in that debate. Call me Z here. I have no religion whatever to follow, practice and preach. I am an average human being and carry with me all positive and negative mental attributes a human being normally is born with and strengthens some and weakens some as his life ages.

I am reproducing below extracts from that true conversation and want to hear from the members from this forum their viewpoints.

X: Brother Y, Hinduism is the better religion than Islam, please convert and we will be brothers forever.

Y: I want you and all Hindus from India to convert and become Muslims. Then there will be no reason for wars between two neighbours divided on religion.

Z: X! Do not tell a person that your religion is better than his.

The Christians and Muslims have been saying to the people of the world the same thing that you are telling to Y.

The fact is no religion is actually true and perfect.

If it were so. then becoming a religious convert or embracing a religion would have made a human being devoid of all negative instincts like hate, anger, lust, greed and malice. And unfortunately, today or in the past, never ever has the human race got itself rid entirely from these negative attributes!

You must first define what do you exactly mean by religion . YOu have to understand a difference between sect programs and religion . A religion or root Sanskrit word Dharma is eternal . It needs no prophet or messengers .

As far as the conversion stuff is concerned well you must realize this that dividing people in the category of believers and disbelievers is done by abrahmic faiths . Life as a Test Vs Life as an experience . This is fundamental difference between Abrhamic faiths and Vedic Dharma . Vedic Dharma or theistic satanism and or occult spiritual yogic tantra practices do not limit the concept of god to a book . Also define God for me uwu

 

[Muslim-UK]

As far as the conversion stuff is concerned well you must realize this that dividing people in the category of believers and disbelievers is done by abrahmic faiths . Life as a Test Vs Life as an experience .

What is the purpose of the experience?

This is fundamental difference between Abrhamic faiths and Vedic Dharma . Vedic Dharma or theistic satanism and or occult spiritual yogic tantra practices do not limit the concept of god to a book . Also define God for me uwu

You don't limit the concept of GOD to a book, so where do you get your knowledge from?

Defining GOD is easy:

He is ONE, All knowing, All powerful, All present, Eternal with No beginning.
My book states;

Say, "He is Allah, [who is] One,
Allah, the Eternal Refuge.
He neither begets nor is born,
Nor is there to Him any equivalent."

 

[proudpagan]

Recently on a social media webpage, I saw a heated love/hate debate and frantic appeals by two followers of different faiths to their opposers to shun their faith and embrace the one that was being offered.

Let us name them here as X a Hindu and Y a Muslim.

I too was a participant in that debate. Call me Z here. I have no religion whatever to follow, practice and preach. I am an average human being and carry with me all positive and negative mental attributes a human being normally is born with and strengthens some and weakens some as his life ages.

I am reproducing below extracts from that true conversation and want to hear from the members from this forum their viewpoints.

X: Brother Y, Hinduism is the better religion than Islam, please convert and we will be brothers forever.

Y: I want you and all Hindus from India to convert and become Muslims. Then there will be no reason for wars between two neighbours divided on religion.

Z: X! Do not tell a person that your religion is better than his.

The Christians and Muslims have been saying to the people of the world the same thing that you are telling to Y.

The fact is no religion is actually true and perfect.

If it were so. then becoming a religious convert or embracing a religion would have made a human being devoid of all negative instincts like hate, anger, lust, greed and malice. And unfortunately, today or in the past, never ever has the human race got itself rid entirely from these negative attributes!

You have to understand Life as a test VS Life as an experience . The essence of SANATAN DHARMA / SPIRITUAL SATANISM is that there is One God One Truth and One Reality which is revealed in number of ways . This is the reason for this plurality in Hinduism . Different rishis , gurus , incarnations , gods , yogis , masters have delivered varied perspectives about the one truth .

There aint any "One size fits for all " approach in Spirituality . Abrahamic faiths are basically Salvation Theologies which means that everyone needs to be saved from an eternal punishment in Hell which in my opinion is a topkek .

Both Islam and Christianity have exclusivity claim that unless you dont belong to their faiths you cant be saved . The concept of christianity is based upon original sin meaning that our very nature from birth is innately sinful and atonement can only be found through faith in christ's death and resurrection .

Islam on the other ha says that if you become moslem and believe in the revelation of muhammed you will be saved from hell fire .

But Hinduism is not a salvation theology and can be called Sanatana Dharma / Spiritual Satanism where spiritual practice is done to attain higher level of consciousness and elevate to higher plane of existence .
There is no concept of being saved from Hellfire . There is rather an idea that through yoga and meditation you can evolve over time and unite with God and or be like a God . There is no division of world into this class of believers and non believers . I said in the beginning life as an experience right ? Although we acknowledge there are various paths to Truth but not every path could be legitimate . If a religion incite violence terrorism and unrighteousness then obviously such path cannot be accepted and must be destroyed .

Truth for Abrahamic faiths is not a state that one can realize rather it is set of doctrines centered around historic personalities like Moses Jesus Abraham Muhammed David and such . Over centuries these doctrines were discussed developed and consolidated . Eventually they were canonized into a set of texts that became Torah Bible and Quran . At some point they became state religion and now they are dominant faiths in the world - Christianity and islam .

But the reliance on historical events is critical for these faiths. For instance if it came to light that deeds and message of Jesus is not as the Bible depicts then this Christian salvation theology will collapse .

Likewise if the Quran was found to have been compiled by many individuals and not the prophet Muhammed then Islam as a Salvation theology would also fall apart .

Santan Dharma and or Spiritual Satanism do not rests on historic events , the goal is to attain higher state of consciousness through Spiritual Practices like Power Meditations , Yoga , Tantra etc .

Abrahamic faiths state that there is only one life as a result there is urgency to have all sins and all merits accounted for after death.There is so much justice and inequality in life and all of this needs be reconciled by the "Day of Judgement" where God balances the scale of justice . On the other hand We SS aka spiritual satanists or Sanatan Dharmi know that the life we lead is just one of the many stories our soul goes through i.e. The Law of Karma .

Abrahamic faiths also reject the idea that there is any kind of oneness of the soul and God . hence it becomes easy for them to build this fake concept of eternal damnation in hell . We Spiritual satanists or Sanatan Dharmi knowing divine nature of soul do spiritual practice to attain a higher state of conciousness and realize the truth .

-------------------

 

[proudpagan]

What is the purpose of the experience?

You don't limit the concept of GOD to a book, so where do you get your knowledge from?

Defining GOD is easy:

He is ONE, All knowing, All powerful, All present, Eternal with No beginning.
My book states;

Say, "He is Allah, [who is] One,
Allah, the Eternal Refuge.
He neither begets nor is born,
Nor is there to Him any equivalent."

Lol what ? I do not even know which authentic Quran to believe in. So many different versions of Quran are floating. Shias claim that actual Quran had 17000 verses and this one is fake or incomplete. Others say Quran has 6666 verses or 6249 verses or 6336 verses. It seems so also because some Hadiths say that goat ate some ayats. Also Quran was compiled and named Quran 20 years after Muhammad’s death. And the Caliph who compiled it was murdered by Aisha’s (Muhammad’s beloved youngest wife with whom marriage was fixed by Allah) brother. Aisha and Ali both wanted to remove this Caliph and fought against him, as well as with each other. Finally both were murdered.

Quran [43:3] says- “We have made it a Qur’an in Arabic, that ye may be able to understand”. This verse indicates that Allah sent down Quran for those, who understand Arabic. So, when Allah himself says that this book is for Arabs, why should I, being a non Arab, believe in it?

 

[proudpagan]

experience

Its better to experience on your own rather to blindly believe a book

 

[Muslim-UK]

Lol what ? I do not even know which authentic Quran to believe in. So many different versions of Quran are floating. Shias claim that actual Quran had 17000 verses and this one is fake or incomplete.

Presumably the Shias memorised it and should be able to produce it. Though I have never heard this claim before.

Others say Quran has 6666 verses or 6249 verses or 6336 verses. It seems so also because some Hadiths say that goat ate some ayats. Also Quran was compiled and named Quran 20 years after Muhammad’s death. And the Caliph who compiled it was murdered by Aisha’s (Muhammad’s beloved youngest wife with whom marriage was fixed by Allah) brother. Aisha and Ali both wanted to remove this Caliph and fought against him, as well as with each other. Finally both were murdered.

6236 is the official number. If you can prove otherwise, then bring your evidence.

Ayah - Wikipedia

Quran [43:3] says- “We have made it a Qur’an in Arabic, that ye may be able to understand”. This verse indicates that Allah sent down Quran for those, who understand Arabic. So, when Allah himself says that this book is for Arabs, why should I, being a non Arab, believe in it?

And if We had made it a non-Arabic Qur'an, they would have said, "Why are its verses not explained in detail [in our language]? Is it a foreign [recitation] and an Arab [messenger]?" Say, "It is, for those who believe, a guidance and cure." And those who do not believe - in their ears is deafness, and it is upon them blindness. Those are being called from a distant place. Qur'an 41:44

As for whether you should believe in it or not, that's a matter between you and your Creator. You'll be asked to call upon your 'helpers' when you return to Him.

 

[Muslim-UK]

Its better to experience on your own rather to blindly believe a book

That doesn't answer the question. I'm guessing your answer is short because your theology is flawed.....

You have to understand Life as a test VS Life as an experience . The essence of SANATAN DHARMA / SPIRITUAL SATANISM is that there is One God One Truth and One Reality which is revealed in number of ways . This is the reason for this plurality in Hinduism . Different rishis , gurus , incarnations , gods , yogis , masters have delivered varied perspectives about the one truth .

So this life is a experience can be unpacked as such:

A is born, A is a naughty child, not obeying parents. A grows up and neglects parents, A moves away and has no clue elderly parents have passed away.

How does GOD view A when they die? Presumably not good and A is reborn and should become better given their past experience, right?

But A has ZERO recollection of their past life and quite possibly become the same person as their previous life. This endless cycle continues.

Before addressing your other points, let's put this one to rest.

 

[proudpagan]

Presumably the Shias memorised it and should be able to produce it. Though I have never heard this claim before.

Reviving Al-Islaam: Hadeeth: 17,000 verses in the Qur’aan, SaHeeH?

6236 is the official number. If you can prove otherwise, then bring your evidence.

Provided

And if We had made it a non-Arabic Qur'an, they would have said, "Why are its verses not explained in detail [in our language]? Is it a foreign [recitation] and an Arab [messenger]?" Say, "It is, for those who believe, a guidance and cure." And those who do not believe - in their ears is deafness, and it is upon them blindness. Those are being called from a distant place. Qur'an 41:44

yes thats right you proved my point . islam could be for arabic speaking people of that region . Not for us uwu

 

[proudpagan]

That doesn't answer the question. I'm guessing your answer is short because your theology is flawed.....

Humanity existed prior to Abrahamic faiths . And The concept of being saved came with abrahamic faiths .

So this life is a experience can be unpacked as such:

A is born, A is a naughty child, not obeying parents. A grows up and neglects parents, A moves away and has no clue elderly parents have passed away.

How does GOD view A when they die? Presumably not good and A is reborn and should become better given their past experience, right?

But A has ZERO recollection of their past life and quite possibly become the same person as their previous life. This endless cycle continues.

Before addressing your other points, let's put this one to rest.

We are responsible and must be ready to face the consequences of our deeds . Vedic dharma / Spiritual Satanism also focuses on morality and ethics . What you think only your religion does ? Just the basic difference between us and you is simple you folks do slavish worship and a dictator god . Your god has desires to be worshipped .

 

[Muslim-UK]

Reviving Al-Islaam: Hadeeth: 17,000 verses in the Qur’aan, SaHeeH?

Did you even bother to read what the Hadith compilers said about it? The words weak, ie fabricated come to mind.

yes thats right you proved my point . islam could be for arabic speaking people of that region . Not for us uwu

O mankind! there hath come to you a direction from your Lord and a healing for the (diseases) in your hearts and for those who believe a Guidance and a Mercy. Qur'an 10:57

In case you were unaware Arabic speaking Muslims make up around 20% of the Worldwide population of Muslims.

I'm guessing you weren't born knowing ancient Sanskrit, and had to rely on a translation in your native language.

Humanity existed prior to Abrahamic faiths . And The concept of being saved came with abrahamic faiths .

Mankind has been around for Hundreds of Thousands of years, most of what they believed is lost. GOD send over 120,000 Messengers and Prophets teaching Monotheism. Even before Moses pbuh, Monotheism was known about in texts we have..

O sole god, like whom there is no other! Thou didst create the world according to thy desire, Whilst thou wert alone: All men, cattle, and wild beasts (...) The lord of all of them, wearying (himself) with them, The lord of every land, rising for them,

Great Hymn to the Aten - Wikipedia

Worship of Aten predates Akhenaten, but under his rule Atenism morphed from a more traditional henotheism into something that could be recognised as monotheism. He first elevated Aten into the supreme god, and later declared Aten to be the only god. He seemed to have also banned the worship of other gods and idols. However, soon after Akhenaten's death, the previous cult of Rawas restored and Atenism came to an end.

Atenism under Akhenaten is usually cited as the first true monotheism, but it might have been inspired by earlier Egyptian thoughts.

George Herbert, 5th Earl of Carnarvon - Wikipedia


It has been claimed by some that Amenhetep IV was the first monotheist in Egypt, but the acceptance of this statement depends upon what meaning is given to the word monotheism, i.e., the doctrine of there being only one god. The passages from the Moral Papyri quoted above show that the Egyptian priests and learned men were monotheistic, even though they do not proclaim the oneness of the god to whom they refer.

- Herbert, George Edwarde Stanhope Molyneux, and Earl of Carnarvon. "Amenism, Atenism and the Egyptian Monotheism."

In any case, Atenism's rise and demise predates the emergence of Judaism as a monotheistic religion by several hundred years.

We are responsible and must be ready to face the consequences of our deeds . Vedic dharma / Spiritual Satanism also focuses on morality and ethics . What you think only your religion does ? Just the basic difference between us and you is simple you folks do slavish worship and a dictator god . Your god has desires to be worshipped .

As stated before to others who follow your beliefs, Billions of people have lived and died, as a result we should have testimonies from Hundreds of Millions of people remembering past lives, so they might learn from them, yet we have almost NOTHING at all. And the isolated stories that do exist are usually not quite what they seem on closer inspection.

You say humans go through this cycle until they become divine like; have you ever had contact with Samsaric beings to verify what you believe?

 

[DavidFirth]

Its better to experience on your own rather to blindly believe a book

I doubt seriously that anyone on here simply just blindly believes a book. People on RF.com are not that stupid.

 

[proudpagan]

I doubt seriously that anyone on here simply just blindly believes a book. People on RF.com are not that stupid.

Well basically they do

 

[proudpagan]

Did you even bother to read what the Hadith compilers said about it? The words weak, ie fabricated come to mind.

Shaikh Saduq (ra) who is the number one Shi’a scholar in the field of Hadith:

"We say that so much of revelation has come down which is not embodied in the present Qur’an that if it were to be collected, its extent would undoubtedly be 17000 verses ... Although all of them were revelation but they (the extra ones) are NOT a part of Qur’an. If they would be a part of Qur’an, it would surely have been included in the Qur’an we have."

Shi’i reference: Shi’ite Creed (al-I’tiqadat al-Imamiyyah), by Shaykh Saduq, English version, pp 78-79.

The transcript of the Qur’an that Imam ‘Ali wrote contained commentary and hermeneutic interpretation (Tafsir and Ta’wil) from the Holy Prophet some of which had been sent down as revelation but not as a part of the text of Qur’an. A small amount of such texts can be found in some traditions in Usul al-Kafi and else. These pieces of information were Divine commentary of the text of Qur’an which was revealed along with Qur’anic verses but were NOT parts of Qur’an.

Thus the commentary verses and Qur’anic verses could sum up to 17000 verses.

O mankind! there hath come to you a direction from your Lord and a healing for the (diseases) in your hearts and for those who believe a Guidance and a Mercy. Qur'an 10:57

In case you were unaware Arabic speaking Muslims make up around 20% of the Worldwide population of Muslims.

I'm guessing you weren't born knowing ancient Sanskrit, and had to rely on a translation in your native language.

Because you always want to propogate your religion and convert people and you have been doing it in non moslem countries and yet you dont allow people i.e. non moslems to preach in your own countries.

Here are interesting facts about Arabs -
Arab men can marry your daughters and sisters but you cant marry theirs kek.
Arab Muslims call Non Arab Muslims as “Mawali”
Arab Ummah of Muhammad was made best among all.

But to understand what “Ummah” actually means, I went back to Quran [14:4], which says- We sent not a messenger except [to teach] in the language of his [own] people, in order to make [things] clear to them. Now Allah leaves straying those whom He pleases and guides whom He pleases: and He is Exalted in power, full of Wisdom.

This verse unequivocally states that any group of people gets the messenger in its own language. It means that Quran and Muhammad both being Arabic were sent for Arabs alone. If Quran was meant for non-Arabs, it would have been sent in vernacular languages and not in a language that hardly anyone understands in non-Arab world.The Ummah of Muhammad was comprised of Arabs alone. Quran [3:110]

Caliphate sealed for Arabs only, Non Arabs can only be loyal servants to Arab masters

The ruler of Muslim Ummah – the Caliph should be a Quraish (Arabic tribe which Muhammad belonged to). Any Non Quraish can never dream of becoming Caliph because Quraish are born rulers and Non Arabs are born slaves - Sahih Bukhari 8.82.817:

Mankind has been around for Hundreds of Thousands of years, most of what they believed is lost. GOD send over 120,000 Messengers and Prophets teaching Monotheism. Even before Moses pbuh, Monotheism was known about in texts we have..

Vedas is true monotheism . I will tell you what is true monotheism -

Ishwar of Vedas = God of Christianity minus the concept of Trinity minus the necessity to surrender to Jesus

Ishwar of Vedas = Allah of Islam minus the necessity to accept Muhammad as final Prophet.

In other words, If someone says first part of Shahada : lâ ilâha illallâh (There is no other God except one and only Allah) but rejects the second part : Muḥammadur rasûlullâh (Muhammad is his messenger), that is close to concept of Vedic God.

Infact you copied the concepts of monothiesm from us probably .

we should have testimonies from Hundreds of Millions of people remembering past lives, so they might learn from them, yet we have almost NOTHING at all. And the isolated stories that do exist are usually not quite what they seem on closer inspection.

You say humans go through this cycle until they become divine like; have you ever had contact with Samsaric beings to verify what you believe?

10 Outstanding Cases of Detailed, Verified 'Past-Life Memories'

yes for when one meditate he opens up to recieve more subtle transmissions , psychic abilities and such