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Nooo...you said,PureX said:
What do you think the cops job is? They look for the guilty and try to avoid locking up the innocent. What do you think the courts do? They pronounce people "guilty" or "innocent". To leave "judgement" to God is to imply that people should not judge other people...therefore police could not judge people as perpetrators, and judges would be out of a job all around.
Faint said:
It isn't so much that we deserve it. It's that we are not capable of making such decisions. We forgive because it's not our place to judge and punish. We love because we can, and because love is good, not because someone deserves it. We forgive because we can, and because forgiveness heals us.Faint said:
How do you figure?Faint said:
As was said earlier, we are talking about one part of love, or what it is to love. I've forgiven my "significant" other already (instantly, in fact) for the nasty things that were perpetrated in the past.Faint said:
Why don't they?Faint said:
Faint said:
I'm not demonizing them...they've reduced themselves to less than scum with their own behavior. Besides, I have a lot more respect for demons than serial rapists.. Incidentally, I don't need to do anything to make myself feel better than a serial rapist...I am better than a serial rapist.Willamena said:
PureX said:
Of course we're capable. Humans have the capacity for reason...certainly we can reason out who is guilty of what, especially when it's obvious.PureX said:
So by this reasoning, we also hate because we can, and it's logical to hate even if someone does not deserve it? Are you telling me that if we can do something it's right? I'm pretty sure I have the ability to kill people, since my hands are in working order. Should I? I mean, you'll still love me right? Even if I killed your family? It's not your place to judge my murderous actions...right?PureX said:
Holding people accountable is an act of judgment (otherwise how would you determine who specifically is accountable?) You now seem to be contradicting yourself.PureX said:
If you love your significant other as much as you love a serial rapist, that love is has no value to anyone. It's empty. Meaningless. It means you have no more regard for the sig. other than the lowest of human beings. In other words, when you say, "I love you" to the sig. other, and you say "I love you" to the rapist...you have told neither anything special. You could just as easily have said to both "I observe your existence" or "I am breathing right now". It's all around pointless.Willamena said:
Please explain this better as it's confusing. What "part" of love are you talking about? How many parts are there. Which parts are given to serial rapists and which to your sig. other...or do they get equal amounts of love. Also did these "nasty things" include raping several dozen people, maybe a little murder here and there?Willamena said:
Forgiving everyone no matter what makes no sense on a rational level. Giving up resentment or a claim to requital for an extreme wrong done is no way to run a society. Pardoning everyone, all people--no matter what their crimes are--would breed absolute chaos. Scenario: murderer kills a family (yours actually). You forgive him. The cops forgive him. Yay! Warm fuzzy feelings. So, he goes out and kills some more people, again, and again, and again, etc. Does that sound like a good world to live in? It should be obvious that your point is logically flawed. So again I put the burden of proof to you...why do all people deserve forgiveness?Willamena said:
So love by your reasoning is what? The acknowledgment and acceptance of another human being's capacity for weakness/lack-of-self-control/violence/anti-social behavior/disregard-for-other-human-lives? If so, why label this as love. We already have a better word for it..."understanding". You can understand a person and what they do...but you don't have to like them or their actions.michel said:
Love is it's own value. It's value is not dependent upon the guilt or innocence of the recipient.Faint said:
We can sometimes figure out who has committed a criminal act. We don't however, have the capacity to determine the meaning of that act relative to the value of the perpetrator, or the victim. For example: person "A" kills person "B", so we must lock up person "A" up before he kills someone else. We aren't better or worse that person "A" because we have determined that he killed person "B". We aren't better or worse than person "A" because we can lock him up. Nor are we better than person "A" because we have not killed anyone and he has. We may THINK we are, but we have no way of knowing that what we think about it is true.Faint said:
Yes, we do.Faint said:
What's logical about hate?Faint said:
No, I'm saying that forgiveness heals. Healing is good for us, and so forgiveness is good for us. We forgive because we can, and because it's good for us. We hate because we can, too, but hate isn't good for us, so why do it?Faint said:
Right. But that doesn't mean I won't try to stop you from killing, or that you won't be locked up or even possibly executed for your crimes.Faint said:
I realize it looks this way to you, but that's because you can't see that holding people accountable for their actions is not necessarily the same as judging and condemning them. It's simply an act of pragmatism. Societies lock people up for wrongful killing because doing so is necessary for the peace and well-being of society, not because it's "evil". People may believe that wrongful killing is evil, but they can't prove this. They can, however, prove that it's detrimental to the peace and well-being of the society.Faint said:
