Is atheism a religion?

[Trailblazer]

@Milton Platt

Since when did science prove that God does not exist?

So are you willing to believe that anything science has not directly disproved exists? Like Thor, Shiva, the Tooth fairy? That leaves you being very gullible and looking a little ridiculous.
It is better to,not believe an assertion until it has been shown to have sufficient evidence to support it, rather than to assume even the wildest claims are true until someone disproves them.

No, that is not what I was driving at. That was an honest question albeit maybe a silly one. Science cannot prove or disprove that God exists, as that is not the purview of science.

No, of course I am not willing to believe in anything that science cannot disprove, but God is not the same as Thor, Shiva, and the Tooth fairy. There is more of a reason to believe that God exists, there is some evidence; but more importantly, there are certain implications if God exists, whereas it does not matter if Thor, Shiva, or the Tooth fairy exist.

I also believe in death, death of the body. But I believe the soul continues to exist forever.
It'd be easier to be an atheist because then I would not have to be held accountable for anything in this life or in the afterlife, but if I am accountable, then it is better to know that now, not later.

Believing something does not make it true. There is no good evidence to demonstrate that there is something called a soul that survives the death of a person.

Of course believing in something does not make it true. There is evidence of the existence of a soul that survives death of the body, not just from religious sources. People have communicated with spirits who exist in the spiritual world. Of course that evidence is not anything scientific because science cannot prove anything that is not in the material realm if existence.

I have been working on a thread I want to post about the afterlife.

I am not so sure that belief and non-belief is a choice. I think that God has a part in who will believe and what they will believe.

I agree that belief is not really a choice. Something convinces you of one proposition or another.

The question is what is it that convinces us and why are some people convinced and others are not. There has to be a reason. I can only say what I am consciously aware of and why I became a believer in the first place, because of the Baha’i Faith. I am kind of an odd believer because I don’t think I ever wanted to believe in God, it just happened. If God chooses people, why did God choose me? I was not even searching for God or a religion. I never thought much about God back when I first became a Baha’i or for decades after that, I just accepted that there was a God. Only in the last six years have I come to think about God and then I really believed in God, knew God existed.

I do not really know what it is why some believe and not others, but I think about it a lot because most of my friends are atheists. Some of my atheist friends have come to say God might exist, but not the God of religion, so they concede to possibly being a deist. Maybe that was from me talking about God all the time, I don’t really know. I think people can change their beliefs but (a) they have to be open to the possibilities and (b) something has to influence them to change their views.

On the other hand, if there were a god that selectively picked out individuals and made them believe in him and ignored the rest of the billions of humans, he’s and a-hole. Why would you want to worship him? That would mean he is bringing to life tens of billions of humans just so he can punish them later.

Not that many people are atheists; it is only about 7% of the world population. So in that sense not many people are left out. I do not believe that God is going to punish atheists for not believing and at the very least it will depend upon the reason they did not believe. Everyone is not the same, and sincerity and effort are very important, as are good deeds. Here is something to think about...

"This cycle is the cycle of favor and not of justice. Therefore, those whose deeds are clean and pure, even though they are not believers, will not be deprived of the divine mercy; but perfection is in faith and deeds. Undoubtedly, a person, who is not a believer, but whose deeds and morals are good, is far better than one who claims his belief in words but, who, in actions, is a follower of satan. The Blessed Beauty says, 'My humiliation is not in my imprisonment, which, by my life, is an exaltation to me; nay rather, it is in the deeds of my friends, who attribute themselves to us and commit that which causes my heart and pen to weep!'"

(Attributed to 'Abdu'l-Bahá, Star of the West, vol. 9, issue 3, p. 29)​

In that passage, satan is symbolic of evil. Baha’is do not believe like Christians, that satan is an entity that exists. The Blessed Beauty refers to Baha’u’llah .

Who is it that has been there to listen to me and give advice when I was really hurting? It was my atheist friends, not believers. I have no doubt that God takes that into consideration. Baha’u’llah says, let deeds not words be your adorning.

 

[lukethethird]

Therefore, atheism is
a pseudo-religion.

Is there any other kind?

 

[dfnj]

I realize atheism doesn't claim to be a religion. And I'm only referring to those atheists who feel they must convert God-believers to atheism, or else these God-believers will destroy civilization.
So within these constraints, atheists should allow for belief in God. But note that such a God has no effect whatsoever on the physical world at all, and his/her influence can only enter into our minds to bring goodness and justice and beauty and joy and peace. Why should anyone object to a God like that?
I would prefer if atheists would limit their critiques of belief in God to critiques of the specific ideas such as I've outlined above. And that they would be calm and rational and polite in their demeanor. I was needlessly a Christian for 30 years because I was offended by the rage of atheists, and so, rejected their views out of hand.

Most atheists I've met simply do not believe in God because there is no simple evidence supporting God's existence. I have not met any evangelical atheists like you suggest. For an atheist to be evangelical kind of implies an implicit acceptance of God's existence. I think most staunch atheists I've simply do not use God in any sentences because they think its nonsense.

My biggest problem with Christianity is its adherents seem more like football fans than football players. Fandom of religion is not the same thing as being spiritual.

Another thing I do not understand is why do Christians care about what other people think especially atheists. It seems to me care at all about what atheist think or say is an implicit admission of doubt or lack of faith on ones own beliefs.

 

[lukethethird]

Another thing I do not understand is why do Christians care about what other people think especially atheists. It seems to me care at all about what atheist think or say is an implicit admission of doubt or lack of faith on ones own beliefs.

I don't know but I think Christians are in awe of the constant barrage of mighty thinking powers coming from the atheists on this site.

 

[ProveYourFaith]

In that case, it is a religion that I visit the toilet everyday. It is a religion that I respond to posters on this forum. And for many, marriage seems also to be a religion. I'm going to assume that you didn't mean that you DO think that you are cherry-picking the definition of Apologetics, since that would blatantly be intellectually dishonest deceptive, and fallacious. Apologetics is the "religious discipline of defending a religious doctrine". Here are twenty Apologists that might disagree with your definition. Top 20 Christian Apologists | CrossExamined.org



I would strongly suggest, that you take your own advice.

I don't have a definition, I looked it up. I'm also aware the word is often used without a relation to religion. I'm not sure why anyone would claim otherwise.

 

[Truly Enlightened]

I don't have a definition, I looked it up. I'm also aware the word is often used without a relation to religion. I'm not sure why anyone would claim otherwise.

I agree. What possible motive would someone have indeed? Why would someone redefine Religion as something you do over and over again? Why would anyone redefine Apologetics as a word not often used in relation to defending religious doctrine? Unless of course someone needs to dilute the common meaning of the word religion to apply to anything. In this way, the word Apologetics could now apply to anything other than Religion. Why would anyone resort to this level of logical gymnastics, just to maintain a belief and deceive themselves?.

 

[ecco]

Since when did science prove that God does not exist?

Please show where I said science proved that God does not exist. Your first comment and it's based on a strawman. Tut, tut.

I also believe in death, death of the body. But I believe the soul continues to exist forever.

Please show evidence for the "soul".

It'd be easier to be an atheist because then I would not have to be held accountable for anything in this life or in the afterlife, but if I am accountable, then it is better to know that now, not later.

I can't attribute comments like yours to ignorance or even willful ignorance. You know that is false and yet you cannot resist spewing it anyway. Morals developed long before your god, or thousands that were created before him, ever existed.

Theists should not claim to know what atheists know.

And yet you do. Worse yet, you do it dishonestly.

I am not so sure that belief and non-belief is a choice. I think that God has a part in who will believe and what they will believe.

Well, goody for you. Actually, it's your parents who had the greatest influence on what belief choices you made. If you would care to argue against that, please explain why most Sunnis have Sunni parents, why most Catholics have Catholic parents, why most Hindus have Hindu parents, etc.

 

[ecco]

there are certain implications if God exists, whereas it does not matter if Thor, Shiva, or the Tooth fairy exist.

When children put a tooth under a pillow, they are usually rewarded by finding the tooth has been replaced by a coin.

When children pray to score the winning goal, they are usually disappointed.

 

[ecco]

There is evidence of the existence of a soul that survives death of the body, not just from religious sources. People have communicated with spirits who exist in the spiritual world. Of course that evidence is not anything scientific because science cannot prove anything that is not in the material realm if existence.

Science can and has done double-blind studies on many different forms of paranormal claims. Science has always shown that paranormal claims are without merit.

 

[shunyadragon]

So an atheist not practicing religion is a religion in your view.

Atheism itself is not a religion, but atheist believe in a religious belief atheism.

 

[PureX]

Theism is a theological position. It's not a religion.
I'm not ignoring anything, but perhaps you misread my last post.

Religion is a collection of ideals and practices that people use to express and maintain their theological positions. And BOTH atheism and theism are theological positions. So that the ideals and practices used to express and maintain both can be considered "religious". I know it's counter-intuitive because we don't usually use the term in this way, but logically, it applies equally to both theological positions.

 

[PureX]

So an atheist not practicing religion is a religion in your view.

Some theists are religious in their expression and maintenance of their theism, and some are not. Some atheists are religious in their expression and maintenance of their atheism, and some are not.

 

[Truly Enlightened]

@Milton Platt

Since when did science prove that God does not exist?

So are you willing to believe that anything science has not directly disproved exists? Like Thor, Shiva, the Tooth fairy? That leaves you being very gullible and looking a little ridiculous.
It is better to,not believe an assertion until it has been shown to have sufficient evidence to support it, rather than to assume even the wildest claims are true until someone disproves them.

No, that is not what I was driving at. That was an honest question albeit maybe a silly one. Science cannot prove or disprove that God exists, as that is not the purview of science.

No, of course I am not willing to believe in anything that science cannot disprove, but God is not the same as Thor, Shiva, and the Tooth fairy. There is more of a reason to believe that God exists, there is some evidence; but more importantly, there are certain implications if God exists, whereas it does not matter if Thor, Shiva, or the Tooth fairy exist.

I also believe in death, death of the body. But I believe the soul continues to exist forever.
It'd be easier to be an atheist because then I would not have to be held accountable for anything in this life or in the afterlife, but if I am accountable, then it is better to know that now, not later.

Believing something does not make it true. There is no good evidence to demonstrate that there is something called a soul that survives the death of a person.

Of course believing in something does not make it true. There is evidence of the existence of a soul that survives death of the body, not just from religious sources. People have communicated with spirits who exist in the spiritual world. Of course that evidence is not anything scientific because science cannot prove anything that is not in the material realm if existence.

I have been working on a thread I want to post about the afterlife.

I am not so sure that belief and non-belief is a choice. I think that God has a part in who will believe and what they will believe.

I agree that belief is not really a choice. Something convinces you of one proposition or another.

The question is what is it that convinces us and why are some people convinced and others are not. There has to be a reason. I can only say what I am consciously aware of and why I became a believer in the first place, because of the Baha’i Faith. I am kind of an odd believer because I don’t think I ever wanted to believe in God, it just happened. If God chooses people, why did God choose me? I was not even searching for God or a religion. I never thought much about God back when I first became a Baha’i or for decades after that, I just accepted that there was a God. Only in the last six years have I come to think about God and then I really believed in God, knew God existed.

I do not really know what it is why some believe and not others, but I think about it a lot because most of my friends are atheists. Some of my atheist friends have come to say God might exist, but not the God of religion, so they concede to possibly being a deist. Maybe that was from me talking about God all the time, I don’t really know. I think people can change their beliefs but (a) they have to be open to the possibilities and (b) something has to influence them to change their views.

On the other hand, if there were a god that selectively picked out individuals and made them believe in him and ignored the rest of the billions of humans, he’s and a-hole. Why would you want to worship him? That would mean he is bringing to life tens of billions of humans just so he can punish them later.

Not that many people are atheists; it is only about 7% of the world population. So in that sense not many people are left out. I do not believe that God is going to punish atheists for not believing and at the very least it will depend upon the reason they did not believe. Everyone is not the same, and sincerity and effort are very important, as are good deeds. Here is something to think about...

"This cycle is the cycle of favor and not of justice. Therefore, those whose deeds are clean and pure, even though they are not believers, will not be deprived of the divine mercy; but perfection is in faith and deeds. Undoubtedly, a person, who is not a believer, but whose deeds and morals are good, is far better than one who claims his belief in words but, who, in actions, is a follower of satan. The Blessed Beauty says, 'My humiliation is not in my imprisonment, which, by my life, is an exaltation to me; nay rather, it is in the deeds of my friends, who attribute themselves to us and commit that which causes my heart and pen to weep!'"

(Attributed to 'Abdu'l-Bahá, Star of the West, vol. 9, issue 3, p. 29)​

In that passage, satan is symbolic of evil. Baha’is do not believe like Christians, that satan is an entity that exists. The Blessed Beauty refers to Baha’u’llah .

Who is it that has been there to listen to me and give advice when I was really hurting? It was my atheist friends, not believers. I have no doubt that God takes that into consideration. Baha’u’llah says, let deeds not words be your adorning.

You never miss an opportunity to sermonize, editorialize, and proselytize your faith, do you? I'm not going to ask you to provide any evidence for any of the knowledge claims you've made. Or, why one God is more or less important than another. I've been down this road to obfuscations and avoidance before. I just want to ask you three questions. What is it that makes you so afraid, that you need to turn to the spiritual, the paranormal, or the supernatural for protection and security in the first place? Do you really think that you have done something wrong, because two imaginary humans disobeyed an imaginary all-powerful figure, thousands of years ago? Do you fear death, need emotional security, need attention, need to belong, need to be led, lack sufficient intellect or insight, lack self-importance, or simply want your belief to be so? Other than the fear of death, everything else is just in your head. Anyway, I was just curious.

 

[lukethethird]

Atheism itself is not a religion, but atheist believe in a religious belief atheism.

I see, did you come up with that on your own?

 

[shunyadragon]

I see, did you come up with that on your own?

No

 

[lukethethird]

No

So someone helped you with that?

 

[shunyadragon]

So someone helped you with that?

I base my view of the facts of history of religious beliefs, and I have repeatedly stated the basis of my views. Atheist and one sided views of some theists here often take disagreements personally and resort to rhetorical 'loaded' poisonous responses like these.

First it is obvious by simple English definition that Atheism, Theism, Agnosticism, Deism, Monism, and so of the above and more all the variations on are not religions they are bet described as religious beliefs.

Example some schools of Buddhism where no Gods are believed to exist are religions.

 

[Truly Enlightened]

Atheism itself is not a religion, but atheist believe in a religious belief atheism.

If Atheism is not a religion, then how do Atheists believe in a non-religious belief Atheism? I don't know what is worst, that you think this makes sense, or that you're defending it as though it does.

 

[shunyadragon]

If Atheism is not a religion, then how do Atheists believe in a non-religious belief Atheism? I don't know what is worst, that you think this makes sense, or that you're defending it as though it does.

Please reread my post and respond. I reworded it a little better.

First it is obvious by simple English definition that Atheism, Theism, Agnosticism, Deism, Monism, and so of the above and more all the variations on are not religions they are best descriptive of religious beliefs believed by different religions.

Example some schools of Buddhism where no Gods are believed are believed to exist are religions.

Not all people who have religious beliefs belong to religions.

 

[`mud]

Worshipping idols is a religion of sorts !