Is being gay a sin according to your religion?

[Unveiled Artist]

But again, - the verses you posted do NOT say marriage is only between a man and a woman. Jesus didn't say so either.

*

Again, in the culture and in scripture marriage is between male and female. You cant get around that. Do not murder is in the Bible. It doesnt say the opposite. Why expect it to mean to murder when its telling you the opposite?

See it in context. Many christians (first hand knowledge) view same-sex marriage as murder. As such, just because it is not in the Bible does not make it right.

That is in the culture and in the scripture. It is not right. Marriage, according to scripture, is between male and female.Women (I think it was) leave their homes to be with their husbands wives. Years ago men owned the property women took care of the kids or master of the household. And so on and so forth.

That doesnt make it right. It just means it is what it is.

What are you trying to say?

Mathew 19:4-6

Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’
5 and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’?
6 So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”

Mark 10:6-9
6 “But at the beginning of creation God ‘made them male and female.’
7 ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife,
8 and the two will become one flesh.’So they are no longer two, but one flesh.
9 Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”

I can post a lot in the NT about male and female they created them.

There is no verse that says same-sex marriage is okay just as there is no verse that says murder is okay. Why assume otherwise?

 

[Ingledsva]

Again, in the culture and in scripture marriage is between male and female. You cant get around that. Do not murder is in the Bible. It doesnt say the opposite. Why expect it to mean to murder when its telling you the opposite?

See it in context. Many christians (first hand knowledge) view same-sex marriage as murder. As such, just because it is not in the Bible does not make it right.

That is in the culture and in the scripture. It is not right. Marriage, according to scripture, is between male and female.Women (I think it was) leave their homes to be with their husbands wives. Years ago men owned the property women took care of the kids or master of the household. And so on and so forth.

That doesnt make it right. It just means it is what it is.

What are you trying to say?

Mathew 19:4-6

Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’
5 and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’?
6 So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”

Mark 10:6-9
6 “But at the beginning of creation God ‘made them male and female.’
7 ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife,
8 and the two will become one flesh.’So they are no longer two, but one flesh.
9 Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”

I can post a lot in the NT about male and female they created them.

There is no verse that says same-sex marriage is okay just as there is no verse that says murder is okay. Why assume otherwise?

Later culture doesn't change what the Bible actually says.

Verses about creating as male and female - for procreation purposes, - does not imply that the variations of such seen throughout nature, - are not also a creation of God, and found to be good.

No verse in the Bible actually says homosexuals can't marry.

*

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Later culture doesn't change what the Bible actually says.

Verses about creating as male and female - for procreation purposes, - does not imply that the variations of such seen throughout nature, - are not also a creation of God, and found to be good.

No verse in the Bible actually says homosexuals can't marry.

*

Are you talking about Christianity?

Christianity is not an isolated religion. God and culture go hand in hand, Although there are animals etc that are same-sex relations, the Bible speaks about humans and how they are supposed to relate and not relate. Marriage is not just about unconditional and physical union according to the Bible it is about procreation and it is about the joining of two people--both male and woman as adam and eve (and so forth).

Variations throughout nature have nothing to do with what god of abraham wanted of his people.

There is no verse that says a person cannot murder. Does that make it right?

Same logic as many christians use. You have a point and it is not part of the christian faith.

 

[Ingledsva]

Are you talking about Christianity?

Christianity is not an isolated religion. God and culture go hand in hand, Although there are animals etc that are same-sex relations, the Bible speaks about humans and how they are supposed to relate and not relate. Marriage is not just about unconditional and physical union according to the Bible it is about procreation and it is about the joining of two people--both male and woman as adam and eve (and so forth).

Variations throughout nature have nothing to do with what god of abraham wanted of his people.

There is no verse that says a person cannot murder. Does that make it right?

Same logic as many christians use. You have a point and it is not part of the christian faith.

Actually it is. Most Christians are telling people it is wrong according to the Bible, while actually not being able to prove it from the Bible. There is no actual reason outside the "supposed" Bible verses, - which are not actually there.

What do you mean, "variations of nature have nothing to do with what god of abraham wanted of his people"?

If God created everything then he created the interesting variations found throughout nature, and we are also animals showing that same variation.

PS. There is a verse that says one cannot murder.

Exo 20:13 Thou shalt not murder.

*

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Actually it is. Most Christians are telling people it is wrong according to the Bible, while actually not being able to prove it from the Bible. There is no actual reason outside the "supposed" Bible verses, - which are not actually there.

What do you mean, "variations of nature have nothing to do with what god of abraham wanted of his people"?

If God created everything then he created the interesting variations found throughout nature, and we are also animals showing that same variation.

PS. There is a verse that says one cannot murder.

Exo 20:13 Thou shalt not murder.

*

Wow. You are missing my point.

Ima start with the Murder example.

There is no verse in the Bible that says: Thou shall murder

Is it alright to murder because it is not in the Bible?

If not, I know why. If so, how?

..

There is no verse in the Bible that promotes same sex marriage

Does that mean it is alright because it is not in the Bible?

If not, I know why. If so, how?

--
1. Since the Bible says marriage is between male and woman why would you assume it says it should or can include same-sex marriages just because it doesnt say "only"?

2. The Bible is meant for instructions (etc) for humans. The examples that christians should follow is based on prophets (people) and Jesus Christ. They may see same-sex animal relationships, yes. AND they know it does not apply to humans.

Do you understand that?

3. I mean you can make the bible say anything you want if its not in the Bible. If you dont take it in context and accept what it says even though you disagree how you can you form a christian-viewed opinion on the topic?

Can you see it in a Christians point of view or only your own?

 

[Ingledsva]

Wow. You are missing my point.

Ima start with the Murder example.

There is no verse in the Bible that says: Thou shall murder

Is it alright to murder because it is not in the Bible?

If not, I know why. If so, how?

First off - that one made no sense as there is a verse saying no murder. However, I now know what you mean.

You said - "There is no verse that says a person cannot murder. Does that make it right?

"You should have said - "If there is no verse that says a person cannot murder. Does that make it right?

And see my next answer.

There is no verse in the Bible that promotes same sex marriage

Does that mean it is alright because it is not in the Bible?

If not, I know why. If so, how?

If there are NO SUCH actual verses in the Bible - then folks can't use such - as their opposition to same sex marriage. Such folks will just have to join the rest of the homophobes out there, and drop the hypocrisy.

1. Since the Bible says marriage is between male and woman why would you assume it says it should or can include same-sex marriages just because it doesnt say "only"?

Again - it doesn't actually say that marriage is between a male and female.

2. The Bible is meant for instructions (etc) for humans. The examples that christians should follow is based on prophets (people) and Jesus Christ. They may see same-sex animal relationships, yes. AND they know it does not apply to humans.

Do you understand that?

NO! Because the Bible does not say that, - and we are part of that animal kingdom, and the rest of the animal kingdom proves that homosexuality is normal.

3. I mean you can make the bible say anything you want if its not in the Bible. If you dont take it in context and accept what it says even though you disagree how you can you form a christian-viewed opinion on the topic?

Can you see it in a Christians point of view or only your own?

You folks are attempting to make it say things you want that aren't in there, or are out of context.

The Christian point of view doesn't count if God didn't say such, and it isn't actually in the Bible.

*

 

[Unveiled Artist]

If there are NO SUCH actual verses in the Bible - then folks can't use such - as their opposition to same sex marriage. Such folks will just have to join the rest of the homophobes out there, and drop the hypocrisy.

Can you rephrase this to an objective statement. The tone obscues your point and I think this is your main one.

Again - it doesn't actually say that marriage is between a male and female.

It doesnt say Only. It says it is between male and woman. You are missing the word you kept using.

The Bible says marriage is between male and female (through all the verses I provided)

The Bible does not say marriage is only between male and female (No verse to provide)

Since there is no verse that says marriage is only between male and female, why would you still assume that same-sex marriage is accepted?

Context.

NO! Because the Bible does not say that, - and we are part of that animal kingdom, and the rest of the animal kingdom proves that homosexuality is normal.

This has nothing to do with the Bible saying marriage is between male and female. (Please read above)

You folks are attempting to make it say things you want that aren't in there, or are out of context.

The Christian point of view doesn't count if God didn't say such, and it isn't actually in the Bible.

Youre debating over something that isnt in the Bible.

The point is, because marriage is between male and female (verses I provided; see above), and it does not say anything more in culture and in religious belief they interpret that as only between man and woman.

I dont agree with it but I cant change the Bible nor can I their culture just because I disagree with how they view same-sex relations and exclude same-sex marriage.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

Christ said marriage was between a man and a woman and sacred, as does the entire NT.

Jesus was also QUITE clear that marriage doesn't matter in heaven AND encouraged celibacy AND had nothing good to say about families at all and would tell you to drop that sacred spouse in a heartbeat if Jesus told you to.

How far does this " I identify as " thing go, is someone an alien from Mars because he identifies as such, or a vampire, or a grapefruit ? How far, what are the boundaries ?

You don't seem to mind other people claiming some carpenter's kid is a god...

Genetically he is, his skeleton identifies him as such, his voice identifies him as such, features, all of it.

What about intersex people? They are both or neither or somewhere in between. God's Word said that there just two genders and yet there are many who clearly aren't one of the two. Is God incompetent? "Sorry, guy, I was gonna finish those testes, but I just wasn't into it and the game was about to be on, so ..."

No. I dont inderstand it. I dont call it a fantasy but instead I put myself in their shoes. I call my cousin a female outside of my misunderstanding of how she sees herself. Its NOT about me.

I would imagine it's like having a PC body but a Mac mind.

If I were christian and god allowed marriage to ALL his people, holy matrimony would be my wife and I identity.

Go back in time:
see here

Further, Paul, the Apostle to the Gentiles, who much more than Jews were involved with homosexuality, made it very clear how Christians should view the practice.

I don't care what Paul says, but even the stopped watch is right at least once a day, and it is Paul to whom is attributed, "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus." This very verse was used, in part, to justify gay marriages in the church (see above link).

Hmmm, how can a brain be gender identified ?, Does a gender identified male/ female brain, look different from a female identified/ female brain ?

a little light reading

But for Adam there was not found a helper comparable to him.

How else would he figure out they weren't f-ckable unless he tried it?

“This is now bone of my bones
And flesh of my flesh;
She shall be called Woman,
Because she was taken out of Man.”

So after looking for sex amongst all other living things, he could only settle for his feminized clone. Luke and Leia have NOTHING on this couple.

I don't know what you mean. I don't believe God's will would be above or contradict His Word.

God told ME that humans wrote the bible and that HIS real opinion would be verified in nature/reality. I consider anyone who would pick a book over God to be idolators. That you think they can't contradict each other means you are EQUATING a deity with some pieces of paper.

Logic, He was born a Jew, he was trained in the temple, he said he had kept " all his fathers laws" Torah, Jewish believers never accepted homosexuality in any way, shape or form because the law of the Torah told them it was unacceptable

We're talking about the guy who blatantly broke Sabbath rules, dishonored his parents, coveted things that didn't belong to him, etc? THAT GUY? The one always in trouble by the clergy for breaking some sort of religious law?

He only spoke ONCE about actual marriage - and it was an ANSWER to a QUESTION about SPECIFICALLY a heterosexual marriage - and if a man could just toss away his wife.

And Jesus said he couldn't ... unless Jesus was the one who told you to leave your family like a leper.

Why would the son of God, who could walk on water, turn water into wine, give vision to the blind, and raise the dead, need training to walk and talk? He obviously didn't get training for the other stuff.

Yes, the Jedi Order didn't exist yet.

 

[Ingledsva]

Can you rephrase this to an objective statement. The tone obscues your point and I think this is your main one.

It doesnt say Only. It says it is between male and woman. You are missing the word you kept using.

The Bible says marriage is between male and female (through all the verses I provided)

The Bible does not say marriage is only between male and female (No verse to provide)

Since there is no verse that says marriage is only between male and female, why would you still assume that same-sex marriage is accepted?

Context.

This has nothing to do with the Bible saying marriage is between male and female. (Please read above)

Youre debating over something that isnt in the Bible.

The point is, because marriage is between male and female (verses I provided; see above), and it does not say anything more in culture and in religious belief they interpret that as only between man and woman.

I dont agree with it but I cant change the Bible nor can I their culture just because I disagree with how they view same-sex relations and exclude same-sex marriage.

Again - those verses do NOT say heterosexual marriage is the only marriage.

They merely mention heterosexual marriage in different situations, which would be expected by a patriarchal nomadic group.

*

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Jesus was also QUITE clear that marriage doesn't matter in heaven AND encouraged celibacy AND had nothing good to say about families at all and would tell you to drop that sacred spouse in a heartbeat if Jesus told you to.


You don't seem to mind other people claiming some carpenter's kid is a god...


What about intersex people? They are both or neither or somewhere in between. God's Word said that there just two genders and yet there are many who clearly aren't one of the two. Is God incompetent? "Sorry, guy, I was gonna finish those testes, but I just wasn't into it and the game was about to be on, so ..."


I would imagine it's like having a PC body but a Mac mind.


Go back in time:
see here

I don't care what Paul says, but even the stopped watch is right at least once a day, and it is Paul to whom is attributed, "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus." This very verse was used, in part, to justify gay marriages in the church (see above link).


a little light reading


How else would he figure out they weren't f-ckable unless he tried it?


So after looking for sex amongst all other living things, he could only settle for his feminized clone. Luke and Leia have NOTHING on this couple.


God told ME that humans wrote the bible and that HIS real opinion would be verified in nature/reality. I consider anyone who would pick a book over God to be idolators. That you think they can't contradict each other means you are EQUATING a deity with some pieces of paper.


We're talking about the guy who blatantly broke Sabbath rules, dishonored his parents, coveted things that didn't belong to him, etc? THAT GUY? The one always in trouble by the clergy for breaking some sort of religious law?


And Jesus said he couldn't ... unless Jesus was the one who told you to leave your family like a leper.


Yes, the Jedi Order didn't exist yet.

Oh gosh. You gave me something else to crunch on tonight.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Again - those verses do NOT say heterosexual marriage is the only marriage.

They merely mention heterosexual marriage in different situations, which would be expected by a patriarchal nomadic group.

*

Again, take out the only. Look at the negatives. Read it in context.

Are you reading my posts?

The Bible says: Marriage is between man and woman

Why would you think same-sex marriage is acceptable when its

1. Not mentioned in the bible,
2. The Bible only mentions marriage between opposite gender
3. The culture and religious foundation of christianity is built on opposite gender relations

???

 

[Ingledsva]

...

The Bible says: Marriage is between man and woman

...

No the Bible doesn't actually say that.

Jesus never said that either.

*

 

[Unveiled Artist]

No the Bible doesn't actually say that.

Jesus never said that either.

*

The bible does not say Marriage is only between male and female.

It does say marriage is between male and female

Its specific in all the verses I gave you.

You mean to say that marriage isnt between male and female in the Bible?
Please say yes. Cause if you say no, I have no clue what to say other than the verses I gave you.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The bible does not say Marriage is only between male and female.

It does say marriage is between male and female

Its specific in all the verses I gave you.

You mean to say that marriage isnt between male and female in the Bible?
Please say yes. Cause if you say no, I have no clue what to say other than the verses I gave you.

Actually, without even bringing up all the questions and debate as to translations and the meanings of words that hail from long-dead cultures, the Bible clearly does not say marriage is only for a man and a women. The most obvious and easiest example is king David, who had at least eight wives, and Solomon who alleged had 700 wives and 300 concubines.
So this whole idea of marriage being "between one man and one woman" is not at all Biblical. It's easily shot down just as soon as someone says "marriage is between."

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Actually, without even bringing up all the questions and debate as to translations and the meanings of words that hail from long-dead cultures, the Bible clearly does not say marriage is only for a man and a women. The most obvious and easiest example is king David, who had at least eight wives, and Solomon who alleged had 700 wives and 300 concubines.
So this whole idea of marriage being "between one man and one woman" is not at all Biblical. It's easily shot down just as soon as someone says "marriage is between."

LOL but you gotta admit it still says "between ba male and female" without being, um, specific with the many wives and concubines.... (good point)

 

[Shadow Wolf]

LOL but you gotta admit it still says "between ba male and female" without being, um, specific with the many wives and concubines.... (good point)

It says a man will leave his family to join a wife. Not once, ever, does it say marriage is exclusively between two people of the opposite sex. The word "between" cannot even be properly used when it comes to the models of marriage in the Bible, because the Bible gives a model that is "among."
However, it does condemn male homosexuality. A man who lies with a man as a woman. But, this is when it becomes tricky, because our understanding of homosexuality is just people sexually attracted to and involved with people of the same sex, but when we look at ancient cultures, we see a trend of the "catcher" either being condemned for assuming the passive role or considered appropriate because they are immature, young, and sometimes an apprentice to the "pitcher" (such as was with the Greeks).
I'm not going to pretend to be an expert in ancient Jewish culture and traditions. But I do know that we cannot approach the subject in a manner that understands a "man laying with a man" as we understand it today, because that is a contemporary understanding that the ancients did not have.
But, regardless, it stands as irrefutable that Biblical marriage is not something the word "between" can properly be used to describe.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

It says a man will leave his family to join a wife. Not once, ever, does it say marriage is exclusively between two people of the opposite sex. The word "between" cannot even be properly used when it comes to the models of marriage in the Bible, because the Bible gives a model that is "among."
However, it does condemn male homosexuality. A man who lies with a man as a woman. But, this is when it becomes tricky, because our understanding of homosexuality is just people sexually attracted to and involved with people of the same sex, but when we look at ancient cultures, we see a trend of the "catcher" either being condemned for assuming the passive role or considered appropriate because they are immature, young, and sometimes an apprentice to the "pitcher" (such as was with the Greeks).
I'm not going to pretend to be an expert in ancient Jewish culture and traditions. But I do know that we cannot approach the subject in a manner that understands a "man laying with a man" as we understand it today, because that is a contemporary understanding that the ancients did not have.
But, regardless, it stands as irrefutable that Biblical marriage is not something the word "between" can properly be used to describe.

You kinda got to look at culture and tradition too. I mean, I would love marriage in the Bible to be between woman and woman (or however they want to translate it to allow to people of any gender to take the marriage sacrament) if I were christian; and, it just doesnt work that way.

Its like trying to squeese a number into a math equation to get the number you want even though the equation itself wont allow it.

I mean my post in 4097 doesnt say exclucively "Man and woman can only be married' and by the nature of the Bible, context, and culture to me it cant be really debated that it means anything outside of that.

There is so much context that marriage or union under holy covenant is between man and woman in the Bible its almost laughable (but I wont laugh) when I hear otherwise. Same-sex relations, yes,I understand that. The Bible doesnt point out who is straight, gay, bi, etc doing their lustful behaviors. It also doesnt mention that two people can love each other in flesh and spirit regardless the gender.

There is a lot of things missing in the Bible. Marriage, though, because of the culture and its heavy emphasis on wives and husbands being in union with Christ (etc) doesnt make me stop and think that it says otherwise because it doesnt mention it?

 

[JoStories]

Albright discussed Qumran, you know when that was, so as a source, his research is not as old as you imply. I see how it works, If you are believer, your research cannot be trusted because you are biased. If you are not a believer, that stance contains no inherent bias, means total objectivity..................That, sir, madam, whatever, is utter nonsense. Shall we play dueling scholars, and I will choose only those that meet your very narrow, nonsensical, standard for acceptability?? If your qualifications are what you say they are, and to this point I have no reason to doubt that they are, you know it can be done

The fact that he published is not the point, nor is his stance, although being a Christian apologist means that many would be skeptical of his work at best. The point is that no credible academician would use a source that old. Most instructor and professors, including me, would not accept any source older than roughly 2008, unless it
was historical in nature or was so incredibly germane to the topic. Karen King is a very astute Christian (Catholic btw) who sets aside her beliefs and can and has written great books on theology, such as The History of God. The issue here is that anyone in this field who wants to be taken seriously must set aside bias or not be accepted as credible to begin with. I hope this clears things up.

 

[JoStories]

Sorry to put it to you, but it says marriage is only between man and woman. I dont agree with it; and, I (and no one else) cant change scripture just because we disagree.

Yes it does. But no where does it say that marriage cannot be between people of the same sex. You are inferring that they mean only heterosexual but you have no evidence to back that up. You have two verses from the OT and a few verses from Paul, whom all know never knew Christ and was a serious misogynist, etc. Nowhere did you post anything that came from the mouth of Christ, if we even accept that what is written to have been said by him is allegedly true. Like it or not, the Bible does not explicitly state that SSM is prohibited.

 

[JoStories]

I guess you can go with it by saying "its not there, its okay." But think about it. The culture and the bible promotes opposite sex love and matrimony. There arent exclusions. Why would it be so specific rather than trying to be politically correct to please everyone especially when there is no evidence that homosexuality was a problem in those countries?



This is like you asking me show in the math book where it says 2 and 2 is 45. Its not there. Does it make it right?

Whats your point?

On what you do base your opinion that there are no exclusions? Can you provide a source for this assumption? And before you come back at me asking for reasons for my stance that it is not excluded, I would say that there is one, but then, neither can you. And your math example is a straw man and in no way is germane.