Is being gay a sin according to your religion?

[ChristineES]

It's like this: If someone is gay and celibate, no one will say the person is sinning. People are not sins, actions are sins. So even if a person is gay, no one can that the person is sinning. This is the main reason I refuse to condemn gays at all. People's actions are between each person and God and those who the action affects. If someone doesn't follow my faith, it is a waste of time for me to tell that person whether I believe what they do is a sin or not a sin.
Calling people "sinners" can be counter-productive, as well.

 

[Norman]

Not sure how you can be against an attraction,

Norman: The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints loves those of same sex attraction, whether they are members or non-members. The church is reaching with this new web-site they created. For your information “Gnostic Seeker Devotee” I suggest that you read the web-site.

Where the Church stands:
The experience of same-sex attraction is a complex reality for many people. The attraction itself is not a sin, but acting on it is. Even though individuals do not choose to have such attractions, they do choose how to respond to them. With love and understanding, the Church reaches out to all God’s children, including our gay and lesbian brothers and sisters
http://mormonsandgays.org/

Dallin H. Oaks has observed, “Tolerance does not require abandoning one’s standards or one’s opinions on political or public policy choices. Tolerance is a way of reacting to diversity, not a command to insulate it from examination

especially one that even psycharicists recognize is innate and unchangeable.

Norman: If you are going to stake a claim, please post information to support it.

Position Statement on Issues Related to Homosexuality
Approved by the Board of Trustees, December 2013
Approved by the Assembly, November 2013

"Policy documents are approved by the APA Assembly and
Board of Trustees…These are…position statements that define
APA official policy on specific subjects…" – APA Operations
Manual.

While recognizing that the scientific understanding is incomplete and often distorted because of societal stigma, the American Psychiatric Association holds the following positions regarding same-sex attraction and associated issues. It is the American Psychiatric Association’s position
that same-sex attraction, whether expressed in action, fantasy, or identity, implies no impairment per se in judgment, stability, reliability, or general social or vocational capabilities. The American Psychiatric Association believes that the causes of sexual orientation (whether homosexual or heterosexual) are not known at this time…
You can read the rest at http://www.psychiatry.org/home/search-results?k=homosexuality

As for scripture, I could easily show that the 'scriptures' (I prefer writings) are not against homosexuality,

Norman:
Feel free to post them and I will respond.

though I suspect the LDS Church will change its stance yet again at some time in the future.

Norman:
Read the rest of this interview, it will further help answer your question. Gordon B. Hinckley.

President Hinckley: Yes, sir. We are. We have fundamental, basic doctrines which have held fast through more than a 150 years of time. We don’t bend with every wind of that comes along. Our doctrine is stable, it’s secure. Programs change, we make adaptation according to the circumstances. But the basic doctrine remains the same and that becomes a solid unshifting foundation to which people can cling in this world of instability and drifting values

GBH: Now we don’t need a lot of continuing revelation. We have a great, basic reservoir of revelation. But if a problem arises, as it does occasionally, a vexatious thing with which we have to deal, we go to the Lord in prayer. We discuss it as a First Presidency and as a Council of the Twelve Apostles. We pray about it and then comes the whisperings of a still small voice. And we know the direction we should take and we proceed accordingly.
http://www.abc.net.au/compass/intervs/hinckley.htm

 

[Norman]

So you honestly think people can "choose" what they are inwardly attracted to?

Norman: I do not believe that we are born with same sex attraction, that is my opinion. However, I stand behind the position of my church.

People inquire about our position on those who consider themselves so-called gays and lesbians. My response is that we love them as sons and daughters of God. They may have certain inclinations which are powerful and which may be difficult to control. Most people have inclinations of one kind or another at various times. If they do not act upon these inclinations, then they can go forward as do all other members of the Church. If they violate the law of chastity and the moral standards of the Church, then they are subject to the discipline of the Church, just as others are.(Gordon B. Hinckley)
What Are People Asking about Us? - Gordon B. Hinckley

ELDER OAKS: This is much bigger than just a question of whether or not society should be more tolerant of the homosexual lifestyle. Over past years we have seen unrelenting pressure from advocates of that lifestyle to accept as normal what is not normal, and to characterize those who disagree as narrow-minded, bigoted and unreasonable. Such advocates are quick to demand freedom of speech and thought for themselves, but equally quick to criticize those with a different view and, if possible, to silence them by applying labels like “homophobic.” In at least one country where homosexual activists have won major concessions, we have even seen a church pastor threatened with prison for preaching from the pulpit that homosexual behavior is sinful. Given these trends, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints must take a stand on doctrine and principle. This is more than a social issue — ultimately it may be a test of our most basic religious freedoms to teach what we know our Father in Heaven wants us to teach. (You can read more at my church's website)
Interview With Elder Dallin H. Oaks and Elder Lance B. Wickman: “Same-Gender Attraction”

My church has also created a new website to help members of our church as well as non-members if they choose to read the website.
Mormons and Gays

I have two friends that are gay, I love them both very much, they know where I come from and I know where they come from. This has not altered our friendship in anyway.

 

[Katzpur]

Norman: I do not believe that we are born with same sex attraction, that is my opinion. However, I stand behind the position of my church.

Are you saying, Norman, that we each choose somewhere along the line whether we're going to be attracted to people of the same sex or people of the opposite sex? If that is the case, would you be so kind as to tell us how you went about "deciding" to be attracted to women rather than men? In other words, did you mull it over in your mind and make a conscious decision that you were going to be heterosexual or homosexual? I know that I was attracted to little boys as early as Kindergarten! That was long before I knew that this was how it was "supposed" to be. I was well into my teens before it ever even occurred to me that I'd make the right "choice."

 

[Muffled]

Do you think your mind can possibly give mental assent to mess around with someone of the same sex?

More specifically: do you restrain yourself because it is a sin?

Ciao

- viole

Now you are getting personal and that is dangerous I believe but I will answer you. I can conceive in my mind having sex with a man and I do not go in that direction at least partially because I believe it is a sin.

 

[Muffled]

Funny, I believe many men and teen boys would agree that erections/arousal seem to happen without their intending it to. One does not merely choose what arouses them. If one is physically attracted to the male form then is it not possible for physical arousal to happen even without "mental assent" when one is looking upon or in the company of a male that is found attractive? Now, whether the person that finds the male attractive is female or male themselves, does it really matter? The point would be, that homosexuality, like heterosexuality, is not a choice as orientation is about attraction, not just about having sex. So the question was put to you whether or not you think homosexuality is a choice, by answering the way you did you are not really answering the question, either that, or you believe that arousal is a choice and I have not yet found anyone that merely chooses when and how they are aroused.

I beleive I could become aroused by a male form but I would not commit sin because of the arousal.

 

[Muffled]

*

1. People including the - HEBREW - used Cannabis in their religious ceremonies.

2. I have shown over and over that there are no actual Bible verses against homosexuality. There are however, many against SACRED SEX which is punishable by death because it is IDOLATRY!

3. ALL legit studies are pointing to being BORN homosexual. Even centers in their brains ONLY respond to same-sex pheromones.

4. And here we have the usual equating of an act of LOVE, with totally unrelated acts of CRIME!

*

I believe you can obfuscate the scripture until the cows come home but the scripture says to me that it is a sin and the Holy Spirit agrees.

 

[Draka]

I beleive I could become aroused by a male form but I would not commit sin because of the arousal.

If you become aroused by the same sex as you...you have an innate homosexual orientation. Or at least bisexual. These orientations are innate and natural, the feelings they produce, both emotional and physical, are natural. They are a part of a person. They are not a choice, they just are.

You want to set aside the "act" of having physical relations with the same sex, even though the attraction and feelings are natural and innate, as something wrong and "sinful" correct? Because you believe that your god has directed so, correct again? Now, do you believe that your god loves his children? Is a benevolent god? Do you believe your god wants the best for his children? Including happiness and love rather than misery and loneliness? If you answer "yes" to any or all of those questions then...why would such a god create some of his children with these innate and natural feelings and desires and then punish them for what comes naturally to them? That HE designed? Your god would have made it so that this was a part of our natural make up and design. It obviously did so for other species on the planet as well. So, WHY do that? WHY make some of his creation desire and feel attraction towards and emotions for the same sex yet purposely deny them true happiness? True love? Why torture and tease his own, supposedly loved, creation by basically saying "here, these are the people you will long for, will love, will only feel attraction to but...you can never be with them and are doomed to misery and loneliness because I forbid you to ever have personal relations with them". Why would a god like the one I described, the one you believe in, ever be so cruel and sadistic? To apparently take joy in his creations' misery? To toy with people like a puppetmaster playing cruel child-like games? Does that really make sense to you? Any of it? Really?

 

[viole]

Now you are getting personal and that is dangerous I believe but I will answer you. I can conceive in my mind having sex with a man and I do not go in that direction at least partially because I believe it is a sin.

Well, I need to, sorry. The reason is that it seems plausible to me that whoever thinks that homosexuality is a choice is bisexual, at least partially.

The question, of course, is why God let some fight against lust for members of the same sex, while others have no interest whatsoever to engage in that, independently from it being a sin or not.

Ciao

- viole

 

[Rick O'Shez]

...the question, of course, is why God let some fight against lust for members of the same sex

Assuming God exists at all. The only reason I can see for some gays fighting their sexuality is a fear of being victimised by bigots.

 

[Ingledsva]

I believe you can obfuscate the scripture until the cows come home but the scripture says to me that it is a sin and the Holy Spirit agrees.

"Obfuscate" LOL!

I am obscuring nothing, nor confusing anyone. I am pointing out what the texts actually say.

If it switches to MOLECH worship - which is Sacred Sex - I'm going to point that out.

If it says it is religious worship of God - I'm going to point out that is obviously not homosexuality.

Don't sit there and say I "obfuscate!"

If you believe I am wrong - then rebut my conclusions!

*

 

[Norman]

"Obfuscate" LOL!

I am obscuring nothing, nor confusing anyone. I am pointing out what the texts actually say.

If it switches to MOLECH worship - which is Sacred Sex - I'm going to point that out.

If it says it is religious worship of God - I'm going to point out that is obviously not homosexuality.

Don't sit there and say I "obfuscate!"

If you believe I am wrong - then rebut my conclusions!

*

Happy Thanks Giving Ingledsva I hope you have a fun and safe holiday

 

[Norman]

Are you saying, Norman, that we each choose somewhere along the line whether we're going to be attracted to people of the same sex or people of the opposite sex? If that is the case, would you be so kind as to tell us how you went about "deciding" to be attracted to women rather than men? In other words, did you mull it over in your mind and make a conscious decision that you were going to be heterosexual or homosexual? I know that I was attracted to little boys as early as Kindergarten! That was long before I knew that this was how it was "supposed" to be. I was well into my teens before it ever even occurred to me that I'd make the right "choice."

I will answer your question Friday. Have a Happy Thanks Giving Katzpur I hope you have a fun and safe holiday

 

[Ingledsva]

Happy Thanks Giving Ingledsva I hope you have a fun and safe holiday

I hope you too have a great family gathering for Thanksgiving.

*

 

[Katzpur]

I will answer your question Friday. Have a Happy Thanks Giving Katzpur I hope you have a fun and safe holiday

You too, Norman. Take care. I'll be watching for your comments.

 

[Servant_of_the_One1]

In islam it is a sin. Allah created Adam and Eve to reproduce and populate the earth.
Muslims dealing with homosexual thoughs are recommended to control themselves and to not indulge in homosexual behavior.

 

[Norman]

Are you saying, Norman, that we each choose somewhere along the line whether we're going to be attracted to people of the same sex or people of the opposite sex? If that is the case, would you be so kind as to tell us how you went about "deciding" to be attracted to women rather than men? In other words, did you mull it over in your mind and make a conscious decision that you were going to be heterosexual or homosexual? I know that I was attracted to little boys as early as Kindergarten! That was long before I knew that this was how it was "supposed" to be. I was well into my teens before it ever even occurred to me that I'd make the right "choice."

Norman: Hi Katzpur, sorry it took me so long to respond to your post. I stated that I do not believe that we are born with same sex attraction, now, I could be wrong. It is just my opinion and just because it is my opinion doesn't mean that it is truth. I do remember that I liked girls as early as kindergarten and that continued into my teens. For me, it just seemed natural, I don't believe that it was a choice that I had to make. If I am understanding you correctly you believe that sexual orientation is a choice. I respect how you feel, however, as a Latter Day Saint how do align your belief with the teachings of our church?

 

[Norman]

It's like this: If someone is gay and celibate, no one will say the person is sinning. People are not sins, actions are sins. So even if a person is gay, no one can that the person is sinning. This is the main reason I refuse to condemn gays at all. People's actions are between each person and God and those who the action affects. If someone doesn't follow my faith, it is a waste of time for me to tell that person whether I believe what they do is a sin or not a sin.
Calling people "sinners" can be counter-productive, as well.

Norman: Hi ChristineES, I understand your comment about calling someone a sinner. Paul said that "we are all sinners and come short of the glory of God" (paraphrasing). In organized religion I don't think anyone can get away from an act=a sin. You are correct that people are not sins, it is the act that is the sin, if only that person believes that. I assume that you have read the bible and know that Christ claimed many actions as a sin, for example "fornication."
Fornication is mentioned 22 times in the new testament. Adultery is mentioned 12 times in the new testament, according to Jesus if acted upon these were sins. A lot of people do not believe in my church but I still feel compelled to share my belief's with others, I do not think it is a waste of time. It really would be the only way a person finds out where another person stands on certain issues. Yes, I believe as you do that our actions are between a person and his or her God. I think you made some valid points here and it is some food for thought. Good Post.

 

[Katzpur]

Norman: Hi Katzpur, sorry it took me so long to respond to your post. I stated that I do not believe that we are born with same sex attraction, now, I could be wrong. It is just my opinion and just because it is my opinion doesn't mean that it is truth. I do remember that I liked girls as early as kindergarten and that continued into my teens. For me, it just seemed natural, I don't believe that it was a choice that I had to make. If I am understanding you correctly you believe that sexual orientation is a choice.

No, I absolutely do not believe it is a choice. That's why your response was so confusing to me. You say that for you, heterosexuality "seemed natural" and yet you fail to be able to acknowledge that for some people, homosexuality "seems natural." If you liked girls before ever having been told you were supposed to like girls, why can't you realize that other little kindergarten boys liked boys instead, without having been told that they weren't supposed to? If it wasn't a "decision" for you, why was it a "decision" for someone else?

I respect how you feel, however, as a Latter Day Saint how do align your belief with the teachings of our church?

I'm not quite sure what you're asking me. The Church's official position on the subject is as follows: The experience of same-sex attraction is a complex reality for many people. The attraction itself is not a sin, but acting on it is. Even though individuals do not choose to have such attractions, they do choose how to respond to them. I see my belief as being entirely in line with this position. I would take it a step further, though, and say that I don't believe that we have the right to try to pass laws regulating other people's moral choices. I believe moral choices should be a matter between each individual and the Lord.

 

[ChristineES]

Norman: Hi ChristineES, I understand your comment about calling someone a sinner. Paul said that "we are all sinners and come short of the glory of God" (paraphrasing). In organized religion I don't think anyone can get away from an act=a sin. You are correct that people are not sins, it is the act that is the sin, if only that person believes that. I assume that you have read the bible and know that Christ claimed many actions as a sin, for example "fornication."
Fornication is mentioned 22 times in the new testament. Adultery is mentioned 12 times in the new testament, according to Jesus if acted upon these were sins. A lot of people do not believe in my church but I still feel compelled to share my belief's with others, I do not think it is a waste of time. It really would be the only way a person finds out where another person stands on certain issues. Yes, I believe as you do that our actions are between a person and his or her God. I think you made some valid points here and it is some food for thought. Good Post.

I do understand what you're saying. Just one thing (to clarify): If I tell a person about Jesus (Yeshua) who does not believe, I will not start in with the sin talk. I start with God's mercy. If the person decides that he/she wants to follow the faith, then I would be compelled to tell that person how to go about it. Or I would direct the person to someone who spent his/her life studying the bible.