Is Bible literal young earth Christian fundamentalism turning people away from God?

[danieldemol]

Are these people actually seriously damaging the work of Christ and turning people away from God?

I believe that when you're down on your knees and you finally cry out: God help me, that God will respond to that first step of yours by taking the other nine steps towards you. Then and only then will you know God is really there. As a reality. And the rest of your existence will be absorbing the complete understanding that faith is safely letting God take over completely. Imo

In any faith or place or time.

But we have to ask first.

I think being ridiculously anti-scientific can turn people away from God.
Referring to Genesis Abdul-Baha states;

"Notwithstanding this, we read in Genesis in the Old Testament that the lifetime of creation is but six thousand years. This has an inner meaning and significance; it is not to be taken literally. For instance it is said in the Old Testament that certain things were created in the first day. The narrative shows that at that time the sun was not yet created. How could we conceive of a day if no sun existed in the heavens; for the day depends upon the light of the sun? Inasmuch as the sun had not been made, how could the first day be realized? Therefore these statements have significances other than literal."
(Abdu'l-Baha, Foundations of World Unity, p. 108)

To me that is where people misunderstand the Bible right at the beginning assuming it to be a literal tale. In this they diverge from science on too many levels.

 

[Altfish]

Are these people actually seriously damaging the work of Christ and turning people away from God?

I believe that when you're down on your knees and you finally cry out: God help me, that God will respond to that first step of yours by taking the other nine steps towards you. Then and only then will you know God is really there. As a reality. And the rest of your existence will be absorbing the complete understanding that faith is safely letting God take over completely. Imo

In any faith or place or time.

But we have to ask first.

I don't know about turning people away from God; but I can confirm that they give us non-believers hours of entertainment. I'd like to take this opportunity to thank them for their comedy.

 

[Mox]

Their religion requires them to go out and spread the good news. So I do not laugh at them or deride them.

Neither do I Erlos. I certainly do not advocate being disrespectful to the aged, everyone, in my view, has an invioable right to stand in public places, and discuss or argue their religion or politics or philosophy with anyone who wants to stop and listen.

They are not at all like the angry US televangelist type of people, trying to push science out of schools, etc. Those are the ones making a mockery of Christianity?

Most definitely, especially the exploititive, when they make a lot of money out of the trusting and the desperate. That makes me more cross than anything else. I imagine it doesn't cut much ice with Jesus/God either.

Creationism is disinformation, it is a harmful narrative, it has to be checked/confronted and prevented from being presented as fact to the young, silly adults, can believe what they like. That is my final personal judgement on the subject.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Are these people actually seriously damaging the work of Christ and turning people away from God?

I believe that when you're down on your knees and you finally cry out: God help me, that God will respond to that first step of yours by taking the other nine steps towards you. Then and only then will you know God is really there. As a reality. And the rest of your existence will be absorbing the complete understanding that faith is safely letting God take over completely. Imo

In any faith or place or time.

But we have to ask first.

I think it makes a mockery of Christianity and a focus of ridicule. I have a short concentration span for debates between YECs and atheists.

I believe in the same God, Jesus, and bible as the Christians. There are much more interesting and enlightening topics for us to discuss than should we interpret genesis literally.

 

[Audie]

Intellectual dishonesty is as much a hypocrisy for those who claim to embrace truth with a capital T, as much as their hypocrisy decrying any other politician who has moral shortfalls, yet claim Trump was sent by God and give him a free pass. They are both examples of their Hypocrisy, with a capital H. They are a stain on religion and a stain on Truth.

Geesh, does anyone really say trump is sent (of) god?

 

[Audie]

Neither do I Erlos. I certainly do not advocate being disrespectful to the aged, everyone, in my view, has an invioable right to stand in public places, and discuss or argue their religion or politics or philosophy with anyone who wants to stop and listen.



Most definitely, especially the exploititive, when they make a lot of money out of the trusting and the desperate. That makes me more cross than anything else. I imagine it doesn't cut much ice with Jesus/God either.

Creationism is disinformation, it is a harmful narrative, it has to be checked/confronted and prevented from being presented as fact to the young, silly adults, can believe what they like. That is my final personal judgement on the subject.

There is a considerable variety to those who make
Christianity look ridiculous, as is true of Islam.

 

[Audie]

I think it makes a mockery of Christianity and a focus of ridicule. I have a short concentration span for debates between YECs and atheists.

I believe in the same God, Jesus, and bible as the Christians. There are much more interesting and enlightening topics for us to discuss than should we interpret genesis literally.

Wait, that means it does not matter (to you) how
the bible is interpreted?

 

[Dawnofhope]

Wait, that means it does not matter (to you) how
the bible is interpreted?

It matters a great deal to me how the bible is interpreted.

We need to consider scripture in the light of science, world history, comparative religion, life experience and theology.

 

[Audie]

Absolutely.
YOC or any form of literalist interpretation of Genesis is highly irrational.
Intelligent people are aware of this.
Creationism has absolutely no relevance to the actual teachings of Christ.
It has no bearing on morality or ethics or man's relationship with God or spirituality.

To concentrate so much attention to it, necessarily distracts Christians from what actually matters in the Bible.

I often see silly old men and women in town handing out creationist leaflets to passersby, denying science and demonising scientists.
They are laughed at and derided, by some members of the public, they in effect make a mockery of Christianity.

If they are laughed at, that sounds like a relataively
small community. In NYC, nobody stops to pay
attention to anyone. I saw Spiderman the other day,
and nobody paid him any mind. Well, I offered to
fist-bump but I am new to NYC.

Do people really bother to stop and make fun of
someone, where you live?

 

[Audie]

It matters a great deal to me how the bible is interpreted.

We need to consider scripture in the light of science, world history, comparative religion, life experience and theology.

I guess the "need do" would be for a Christian

I would think that anyone who actually thought for a
bit would see it your way, it, that is, they accept a certain overall picture of the what the bible is.

For a Christian, those thoughts lead to something
quite different than it does to me.

For example, I would see the flood story as intended
to be literal, while the thing about Jesus being a lamb
or a door,clearly is not. Taking extreme and unsubtle
examples, of course.

I see "Paul" as a fraud, and Jesus as someone who
would not even recognize himself if he popped up in a time machine and read the book.

 

[jonathan180iq]

Are these people actually seriously damaging the work of Christ and turning people away from God?

I believe so. Yes.

Aside from being basically intellectually bankrupt, YECs have to backload their faith in God by first having faith in Scripture, then having faith in their interpretation of Scripture, followed by a rejection of any ideas not conducive to those first two things... It's faith not in God, but in denomination.

If you don't believe me, check how many times a YEC will equate rejecting a young Earth hypothesis to calling God a liar.

It's not God they're for. It's Young Earth Creationism.

I believe that when you're down on your knees and you finally cry out: God help me, that God will respond to that first step of yours by taking the other nine steps towards you. Then and only then will you know God is really there. As a reality. And the rest of your existence will be absorbing the complete understanding that faith is safely letting God take over completely. Imo

If I told you that feeling bad about yourself and submitting to the authority of Science was the only way to truly understand Science, would that do anything for you?

"Once you convince yourself, the Universe falls into place..."

 

[Windwalker]

Not all YECs are Trump supporters. Not all of them live in the US either.

Sure. I didn't suggest all of them did. I used the two examples as examples of hypocrisy. There are other examples I could easily find as well, and never every single individual within their ranks are that. However, these are prevalent enough as to stain the lot of them.

The leadership of the rank and file promote this stuff and try to persuade everyone to think the same way, quite successfully in fact. I'd say for the most part, fundamentalists are followers of their leaders, not forging a new path of independent thought. It's largely a regurgitation of what the leaders tell them to think.

People can believe in creationism if they want and never believe they are being in any way intellectually dishonest.

Yes, there are mechanisms of self-deception that are built into it, like the self-deception of conspiracy theorist who imagine all the rest of us can't see the plain truth that they see.

They may have, in their view, perfectly good reasons for their beliefs.

Of course. Holocaust deniers have their "perfectly good reasons for their beliefs" in their minds too. They have answers at hand for all the rational objections others present them with. If you compare the two side by side, you see striking similarities of denialisms and self delusions going on. Similar to the holocaust-deniers, YEC are science-deniers.

It's hypocritical to throw everyone in a group under the bus, declaring them this or that.

Why is general statistics a hypocrisy? I lived amongst them. I know the thought processes. I see little has changed for most.

I know not every individual fits the mold, however there most certainly is a center of gravity which draws the ranks around these mentalities. When 80% of evangelicals voted for trump, that is us seeing that center of gravity in action. That's not a hypocrisy in any sense of that word to point that out. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...d-trump/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.ade8a943e04c

 

[Mox]

Do people really bother to stop and make fun of
someone, where you live?

I live in Cambridge, which is not very large, our non student population is about 50,000 people.
So it's a bit friendlier here than in a mega city, like NY or London.
In summer however it's like a UN convention.

Secondly in Cambridge, it is customary for all sorts of weird and wonderful people to take to the town centre and try to entertain shoppers tourists and skiving students with all sorts of tricks music and acts.

So we don't mind joining in with the street theatre sometimes.
Including street preachers, they certainly get their money's worth in Cambridge when they start decrying evolution. Plenty of men and women in Cambridge who know quite a lot about evolution.

 

[Dawnofhope]

I guess the "need do" would be for a Christian

I would think that anyone who actually thought for a
bit would see it your way, it, that is, they accept a certain overall picture of the what the bible is.

For a Christian, those thoughts lead to something
quite different than it does to me.

For example, I would see the flood story as intended
to be literal, while the thing about Jesus being a lamb
or a door,clearly is not. Taking extreme and unsubtle
examples, of course.

I see "Paul" as a fraud, and Jesus as someone who
would not even recognize himself if he popped up in a time machine and read the book.

The stories that make up the first nine chapters of genesis including the creation myth, Noah's ark, and Adam and Eve appear clearly allegorical.

Jesus spoke in parables to convey spiritual meanings. The gospels have a narrative that is part historic, part allegorical to reinforce the central themes.

The apostles of simply expanded on the central teachings of Christ and if viewed in the context of teaching to both Jewish and Greco-Roman audiences makes sense.

 

[Audie]

I live in Cambridge, which is not very large, our non student population is about 50,000 people.
So it's a bit friendlier here than in a mega city, like NY or London.
In summer however it's like a UN convention.

Secondly in Cambridge, it is customary for all sorts of weird and wonderful people to take to the town centre and try to entertain shoppers tourists and skiving students with all sorts of tricks music and acts.

So we don't mind joining in with the street theatre sometimes.
Including street preachers, they certainly get their money's worth in Cambridge when they start decrying evolution. Plenty of men and women in Cambridge who know quite a lot about evolution.

Ah ok, a bit of a street fair, all are part of the act?

When I was in London, btw, it was just cold rain
and people looking kind of unhappy, I thought.

Wrong time of year.

 

[Mox]

Geesh, does anyone really say trump is sent (of) god?

Apparently, yes.

I have spoken online to muricans who refer to Trump as the God Emperor.

Which is obviously, somewhat insane.

 

[ERLOS]

I believe so. Yes.

Aside from being basically intellectually bankrupt, YECs have to backload their faith in God by first having faith in Scripture, then having faith in their interpretation of Scripture, followed by a rejection of any ideas not conducive to those first two things... It's faith not in God, but in denomination.

If you don't believe me, check how many times a YEC will equate rejecting a young Earth hypothesis to calling God a liar.

It's not God they're for. It's Young Earth Creationism.


If I told you that feeling bad about yourself and submitting to the authority of Science was the only way to truly understand Science, would that do anything for you?

"Once you convince yourself, the Universe falls into place..."

Why do so many atheists have this beef with God as an 'authority figure'? It's a complete misunderstanding of something they're not supposed to be interested in anyway. God may be real. You may be wrong ...

Don't expect God to dance for you because you instruct him to prove himself

 

[Audie]

The stories that make up the first nine chapters of genesis including the creation myth, Noah's ark, and Adam and Eve appear clearly allegorical.

Jesus spoke in parables to convey spiritual meanings. The gospels have a narrative that is part historic, part allegorical to reinforce the central themes.

The apostles of simply expanded on the central teachings of Christ and if viewed in the context of teaching to both Jewish and Greco-Roman audiences makes sense.

Seen through 21st century eyes, the non- factual nature genesis is more than a little apparent.

Is it not so, though, that it is a relatively recent thing,
to see it so?

How would one determine that the authors did not
intend it all as historical fact?

 

[Mox]

When I was in London, btw, it was just cold rain
and people looking kind of unhappy, I thought.

Probably, we still haven't got used to the rain. Deep down our ancestral genes cry out for mediterranean shores and sunkissed beaches. That's why we love Spain so much I guess.

 

[Windwalker]

Geesh, does anyone really say trump is sent (of) god?

I apologize in advance for stealing what hope for humanity you may have had left in you.

"Eighty percent of white evangelicals voted for and, by and large, continue to support President Trump. To almost everyone else in America, this seems like a fundamental contradiction. But to Trump’s faithful, it is Providence at work in human history. They believe God is making America great again through an imperfect human agent. And like any true believers, they will not be moved."

http://time.com/5161349/president-trump-white-evangelical-support-slaveholders/

Other of many references you'll find if you do a a Google search for "God sent Trump". Here's a favorite about a movie some are planning to make about this called The Trump Prophecy: https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entr...ump-chosen-by-god_us_5b119d9ce4b02143b7cc6cfb

Other references from the search https://www.politico.com/magazine/s...icans-believe-god-made-trump-president-216537