Is Bin Laden Now Innocent Until Proven Guilty?

[Autodidact]

Was Adolf Eichmann innocent until proven guilty? Oh wait, he was...never mind.

 

[Elessar]

Hmm. I guess I assumed that since Casto came to power, the US' presence would have been unwanted.

Anyhow, doesn't that mean that GITMO's status as Cuban soil is even more certain?

Actually, no, as the Supreme Court has ruled in the past, in the nineteenth century, in fact, that any area under permanent or temporary U.S. jurisdiction, all U.S. federal laws and the Constitution applied, and it has also ruled, as early as 1803 no less, that ALL people have constitutional rights when under the authority of the United States, with no distinction between citizens and aliens.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Actually, no, as the Supreme Court has ruled in the past, in the nineteenth century, in fact, that any area under permanent or temporary U.S. jurisdiction, all U.S. federal laws and the Constitution applied, and it has also ruled, as early as 1803 no less, that ALL people have constitutional rights when under the authority of the United States, with no distinction between citizens and aliens.

Hang on... I think we're talking across ourselves here.

It's been my position all along that the actions of the US government anywhere in the world must be subject to the Constitution. However, I'm also saying that GITMO, as Cuban soil, is also subject to the laws of Cuba.

I imagine that this makes many of the activities that go on there doubly illegal.

 

[Autodidact]

What I'm saying is, it's one or the other. Either it's under U.S. control, and subject to the constitution, or it's Cuban, in which case Mr. Castro is a trifle irritated with us. You don't get to have it both ways.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

What I'm saying is, it's one or the other. Either it's under U.S. control, and subject to the constitution, or it's Cuban, in which case Mr. Castro is a trifle irritated with us. You don't get to have it both ways.

I'm not sure what you mean. And fundamentally, I'm not sure how Gitmo operates under a different arrangement than, say, the facilities that US Customs rents from the Canadian government at Toronto Pearson Airport: I'm sure the personnel who work at either one are subject to restrictions that come from US legislation, but they don't get a free pass on the local laws just because they work for Uncle Sam.

 

[Reverend Rick]

When Obama finds out where Osama is located, he will take no prisoners. No boundaries will stop him either. When we leave Iraq, the soldiers will be going to Afghanistan.

 

[Heneni]

If troops, be they american or british ever capture bin laden, (which of course i dont think will happen) lo and behold, there will be some idiot soldier photographing his torture and/or his excecution.

 

[blackout]

Bump of post #293
Still hoping for an answer.

Quote:
Is Bin Laden Now Innocent Until Proven Guilty?

Of what accused crime are we speaking here?
Guilty or innocent of What?
__________________

 

[The Voice of Reason]

After the debacle of Saddam Hussein's execution, I would be surprised if Bin Laden is "captured alive".

Such an occurrence would automatically raise him to the level of a sainted martyr. Better that, when he is located, he be eliminated without fanfare or publicity. Let his demise be something that never sees the light of day, and his legend be nothing more than a very small footnote to history, showing him to be a killer of innocent people.

 

[Autodidact]

I'm not sure what you mean. And fundamentally, I'm not sure how Gitmo operates under a different arrangement than, say, the facilities that US Customs rents from the Canadian government at Toronto Pearson Airport: I'm sure the personnel who work at either one are subject to restrictions that come from US legislation, but they don't get a free pass on the local laws just because they work for Uncle Sam.

What I mean is, it was disingenuous for the Bush administration to argue that the Constitution does not apply to GITMO because it is geographically situated outside the U.S. border (and they lost on this issue) and to still assert U.S. soveriegnty over it. If they want to say it's not part of the U.S., then give it back to Cuba. You can't have it both ways.

 

[kai]

Bump of post #293
Still hoping for an answer.


Of what accused crime are we speaking here?
Guilty or innocent of What?
__________________

check this out Vi

Osama bin Laden - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

What I mean is, it was disingenuous for the Bush administration to argue that the Constitution does not apply to GITMO because it is geographically situated outside the U.S. border (and they lost on this issue) and to still assert U.S. soveriegnty over it. If they want to say it's not part of the U.S., then give it back to Cuba. You can't have it both ways.

I totally agree. I just think that the Cuban people may take issue with what goes on there similarly to the American people... that's all.

 

[Reverend Rick]

I totally agree. I just think that the Cuban people may take issue with what goes on there similarly to the American people... that's all.

Do you know anything about what it is like to live in Cuba? What the Cubano's "think" has nothing to do with how the country is run. Many would rather face sharks in a rubber raft than live under a dictatorship.

You can go to prison for voicing an unpopular opinion there.

Let me ask you a question, do you know who are the highest wage earners in Cuba?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Do you know anything about what it is like to live in Cuba? What the Cubano's "think" has nothing to do with how the country is run. Many would rather face sharks in a rubber raft than live under a dictatorship.

You can go to prison for voicing an unpopular opinion there.

And what does it say about the actions of the American government that even a regime like Castro's can take the moral high ground on this issue?

 

[kai]

And what does it say about the actions of the American government that even a regime like Castro's can take the moral high ground on this issue?

Castro's Government doesn't need the moral high ground to take issue with the US, doesn't it consider the Guantanamo base illegally occupied?

 

[Mathematician]

Do you know anything about what it is like to live in Cuba?

Apparently you don't.

 

[Elessar]

Castro's Government doesn't need the moral high ground to take issue with the US, doesn't it consider the Guantanamo base illegally occupied?

Nope, they consider it legally rented by the United States from them. And the State Department still delivers them $100 in gold annually to pay for leasing the base - though Cuba is not allowed to terminate the agreement under the agreement. The Soviets convinced Castro to leave it and not push the issue, and, now, 40-some years later, we have the confusing legal precedent of the U.S. paying a government it doesn't recognize, which it won't trade or engage in discourse with whatsoever, $100 a year to lease land for a naval base.

 

[kai]

Nope, they consider it legally rented by the United States from them. And the State Department still delivers them $100 in gold annually to pay for leasing the base - though Cuba is not allowed to terminate the agreement under the agreement. The Soviets convinced Castro to leave it and not push the issue, and, now, 40-some years later, we have the confusing legal precedent of the U.S. paying a government it doesn't recognize, which it won't trade or engage in discourse with whatsoever, $100 a year to lease land for a naval base.

I got that from here.

The Cuban government opposes the presence of the naval base, claiming that the lease is invalid under international law. The US government claims that the lease is valid.


Guantanamo Bay Naval Base - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Elessar]

I got that from here.

The Cuban government opposes the presence of the naval base, claiming that the lease is invalid under international law. The US government claims that the lease is valid.


Guantanamo Bay Naval Base - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I stand corrected.