Is Buddhism atheistic?

[Gambit]

Some people no doubt do so. Your point?

It's not some. Mahayana Buddhism comprises the majority of Buddhists. So, your claim that "Buddhism largely does not care to give the idea of deity too much importance" is not entirely accurate.

 

[LuisDantas]

Every single part of your claim is naive or uninformed, Gambit. The whole does not hold any better.

 

[psychoslice]

Just take a look at what the belief in a god has done, the misery that it has caused, and you wonder why the Buddha never talked about a god, or entertained the idea of one.

 

[Gambit]

Every single part of your claim is naive or uninformed, Gambit. The whole does not hold any better.

I have supported every single part of my claim by providing appropriate documentation. That's the difference between my claim and your objections.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Just take a look at what the belief in a god has done, the misery that it has caused, and you wonder why the Buddha never talked about a god, or entertained the idea of one.

True.

Givin all phenomina is empty, there is really nothing to address on the matter. Its an aspect of samsara which comes and goes anyways.

 

[GoodbyeDave]

Some years ago a pope (John Paul II?) remarked in passing that Buddhists did not believe in God. The result was a letter from the President and Prime Minister of Ceylon telling him that, although their concept of God differed from that of Christians, they were emphatically not atheists. Many years ago I consulted a huge book on Buddhism by a top monastic in Thailand. He too denied that Theravada Buddhism was atheistic, and said that too many Westerners wrote about Buddhism, or even declared themselves Buddhists, when they really didn't have a clue. I think the moral is that to learn what a religion teaches, you have to ask some-one raised in it.

Whether Buddha believed in God is, of course, a different question. Personally, I can't see his ideas being developed by anyone other than an atheist or an agnostic.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Some years ago a pope (John Paul II?) remarked in passing that Buddhists did not believe in God. The result was a letter from the President and Prime Minister of Ceylon telling him that, although their concept of God differed from that of Christians, they were emphatically not atheists. Many years ago I consulted a huge book on Buddhism by a top monastic in Thailand. He too denied that Theravada Buddhism was atheistic, and said that too many Westerners wrote about Buddhism, or even declared themselves Buddhists, when they really didn't have a clue. I think the moral is that to learn what a religion teaches, you have to ask some-one raised in it.

Whether Buddha believed in God is, of course, a different question. Personally, I can't see his ideas being developed by anyone other than an atheist or an agnostic.

Who was the top monastic that was quoted as saying that? That sounds unlikely coming from Theravada.

 

[Jiddanand]

Buddha was a Hindu.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Buddha was a Hindu.

Like Buddha boy?

 

[atanu]

I think the following may help, although I know that not everyone will agree.

http://www.sacred-texts.com/bud/zfa/zfa04.htm

 

[Rick O'Shez]

The transcendental is certainly present in Buddhism. Not "God" though. If you try to view Buddhism through a theist lens you will miss the point.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Buddha was a Hindu.

He spent a lot of time arguing with the Bhrahmins though.

 

[atanu]

The transcendental is certainly present in Buddhism. Not "God" though. If you try to view Buddhism through a theist lens you will miss the point.

One cannot view the transcendental with any lens whatsoever, and least with a materialistic atheistic lens. I hoped that that much would be clear from the Soyen Shaku's explanation of the matter.

Nevertheless, theism or atheism are labels that I usually do not use. These labels are meant to help, but mostly they help to create permanent partitions. And often some folks begin preaching that Buddha taught materialism and atheism. Soyen Shaku's article was posted to dispel that doubt from the minds of those who are willing to be open.

For me there is no doubt that the sadguru, the true guru (a truly realised or awakaned person) is God. Guru BrahmA, Guru Vishnu, Guru Mahesvara. This is also reflected in the scripture "The Knower of Brahman is Brahman".

And in my understanding, the same is the meaning in "Buddham Sharanam Gacchami".

YMMV.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Theism or atheism are labels that I usually do not use. These labels are meant to help but mostly they help to create permanent partitions.

I tend to agree. Unfortunately most people do think in this way.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

One cannot view the transcendental with any lens whatsoever, and least with a materialistic atheistic lens.

Why do you conflate materialist and atheist?

 

[atanu]

Why do you conflate materialist and atheist?

I do not.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

I do not.

Fair enough. A lot of people do conflate materialist and atheist, just as a lot of people conflate the transcendental with "God".

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Mahayana is not one single entity. It has wide variations.

This is an important point. Buddhism is vast, diverse and pluralistic, rather like Hinduism. It's very difficult to generalise.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

I voted "neither".
Thinking about Buddhism in terms of the theist/atheist dichotomy isn't productive. Too much baggage on both sides of the equation.

 

[atanu]

God and Transcendental are both words. The wisdom beneath the words, IMO, is contained in the words of Soyen Shaku.

http://www.sacred-texts.com/bud/zfa/zfa04.htm

At the outset, let me state that Buddhism is not atheistic as the term is ordinarily understood. It has certainly a God, the highest reality and truth, through which and in which this universe exists. However, the followers of Buddhism usually avoid the term God, for it savors so much of Christianity, whose spirit is not always exactly in accord with the Buddhist interpretation of religious experience. Again, Buddhism is not pantheistic in the sense that it identifies the universe with God. On the other hand, the Buddhist God is absolute and transcendent; this world, being merely its manifestation, is necessarily fragmental and imperfect. To define more exactly the Buddhist notion of the highest being, it may be convenient to borrow the term very happily coined by a modern German scholar, "panentheism," according to which God is πᾶν καὶ ἕν (all and one) and more than the totality of existence.

But I know that even this will not be acceptable to some, since IMO, such are yet to grasp the spiritualism of Buddhism.