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Is Catholicism true and...

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
As far as I know the Trinity remains the central doctrine of the Catholic Church, not just as 'a' doctrine, but the central doctrine from which all other doctrines are formed.
Central doctrine especially since Constantine and his mother's day.
 

pearl

Well-Known Member
Unity as in all three being equal or __________
The Father is greater than all - Jesus is part of the 'all ' - John 10:29
God is a Spirit Person and God sends forth His spirit - Psalms 104:30
So, God as a Spirit Person is not the same as God sending forth His spirit.
Also, pre-human heavenly Jesus did Not send himself to Earth, but his God sent heavenly Jesus to Earth for us.

In chapter 4, verse 8 and again in verse 16,, 1JN we read that "God is love," but a very particular kind of love, for the word chosen in the Greek text is agape. Agape is a purely other-directed love, a love that seeks no response and demands no return, a love centered totally on the beloved.

“It is the Father who generates, the Son who is begotten, and the Holy Spirit who proceeds”

It is the interpretation of the biblical expression "God is love" (1 Jn. 48:16). It means that the one and only God is not a solitary God, but from eternity is self-giving love in which the Father communicates with the Son and the Father, and the Son with the Holy Spirit. Each of the three persons is fully God, totally eternal, and each gives the others room in which they can communicate themselves and renounce themselves. In this kenotic way God is unity in diversity.

In his book Beyond Personality (1944), Lewis gives a clear example of how one might relate to the Christian three-in-one God of Father, Son and Holy Spirit. He writes:

“You may ask, if we can’t imagine a three personal Being, what is the good in talking about him? The thing that matters is being actually drawn into that three-personal life, and that may begin any time tonight, if you like. What I mean is this. An ordinary simple Christian kneels down to say his prayers. He is trying to get in touch with God [the Father]. But if he is Christian he knows that what is prompting him to pray is also God. God is, so to speak, inside him [the Holy Spirit]. But he knows also that all his real knowledge of God comes through Christ – the man who was God – that Christ [the Son] is standing beside him helping him to pray, praying for him. You see what is happening. God is the thing beyond the whole universe to which he is praying – the goal he is trying to reach. God is also the thing inside him which is pushing him on – the motive power. God is also the road or bridge along which he is being pushed towards that goal. So that the whole threefold life of the three-personal Being is actually going on in that ordinary little bedroom where an ordinary man is saying his prayers.” (p.17)
 

Brickjectivity

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Sure was intentional in Constantine's Day when the non-Christians were allowed to be as they were but now under Christian names.
I would not worry about it. Some suggest there must be a pure version of Christianity without any doctrinal errors and which excludes trinity, but I hope they do not use their knowledge in a way which is forceful. The fruits of the spirit are love, joy peace patience and other many good things. Whoever has the fruits must also have the spirit which produces them I think. That and many other arguments tend to make me put this discussion about trinity on a lower pedestal than I used to do. I think of it as a tool that some people can use to help themselves, neither as central nor as unchristian.

It is the unity of the Trinity that is God's self gift, a model for how to live our lives, unity in families, among others.
"Glory to God in the highest, peace on earth, good will towards men." seems like the earliest trinitarian statement in scripture, but it does not use the term. Also the term 'Glory' is difficult. I think of it as a power which transforms this world into another world. 'Glory to God' in the highest seems a related statement to 'God will be all and in all'. It is thus related to trinity, and the prayer may be an early statement of it or may be considered an early emanation of trinity: Father, Son, Holy Spirit. It does not clinch anything, nor can it be used as a forceful argument. It is perfect in that regard.

[1Co 15:28 NIV] 28 When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.
[Luk 2:14 NIV] 14 "Glory to God in the highest heaven, and on earth peace to those on whom his favor rests."​
 

rational experiences

Veteran Member
Before any religious creed is natural man's first life choice position the sciences.

Theism.

So you must ask men did you not claim your man self who theoried knew why heavens existed or earth existed. A story not a calculus?

Yet no man is God says otherwise?

Yes is the contradiction. I knew.

So you also quote my father as you are baby son man theist. Father ours was great spiritually as compared to yourself the thinker. Using two positions.

Being father man's spiritual life first yet using mind to theism not about our holy father himself?

Yes.

Aren't books kept just for referral?

Yes.

Then isn't the truth only interpreted by the reader?

Yes.

So men said I must accept as one human I am before myself....father first as now the man son inside holy ghosts. Host heaven support.

A truth.

Is religion ultimate truth?

No.

Family first is owning no religious creed as human science hadn't invented life by a man's thesis. To think.

Why religion is half correct half wrong...as it involves scientific reviews...man's theisms.
 

rational experiences

Veteran Member
Behaviours chosen.

Legal decree against rich man history of unnatural self given control by greed real.

Legal...virtually said to men... shut up...don't talk..no argument allowed. The man theist. Man Theist self ego behaviour agrees to argue and likes wants to argue.

Decree in life by hypocrite rich man was about Satan science machines men built that destroyed us. Criminal behaviour theism.

So Don't argue. A true edict no arguing just listen.

Reason to human legal claim...not allowed to argue. No rights to argue.. as science practice only was decreed criminal behaviour ...men theories our non biological presence.

Proven.

The status ice was travelling on the star in space. First law.

The star owns ice in space law. Ice our saviour for biology type is after ice age.

Isn't any thesis it was seen known observed first by man. So there is no argument in science about ice the biology saviour.

Carcass of dinosaurs were seen held frozen in ice.

Star by space law owned ice the saviour hence man was forbidden to bring forth metal from out of space.

By maths only theories numbers came out of wilderness...chaos...space position.

Law said so by the star body. Ice was the earth saviour.

Theists own no argument whatsoever in any scientific argument. As it's not science it's natural.

The term God was mans observation presence supported by highest greatest any one thing.

Man's lying behaviour. I chose to sacrifice my brother as much as I chose my sister mother's life destruction. As not an agreed living human as one human presiding.

If I want you removed I claim I own the right to order it ...cause it said Satan men..theist rich man scientist.

Lied.

As it makes him a man god who allowed by cult conditions to hurt whoever he chooses.

Women his ultimate victim.

If he victimised his brother he victimised himself.

Teaching said our holy father the same DNA of every first father on earth. All man babies were hence the same man now.

Where is your excuse to murder your own self? Was the exact question.

Reasoned...I own only one body...I ignored my brother was my life too so virtually I sacrificed myself without losing my living king lord greedy rich man's life.

Why men scientists were considered a murdering criminal by legal hierarchy as the review is true.

All babies are the same baby a man baby or a woman baby now. Owning the same life but experiencing it as a variable.

Hence our message to your own self is most important.

Knew this teaching before your heavy metal brain attack Inherited made you forget.

Why you were challenged since when did your own baby life sacrificed murdered save you?

Reason is because humans criminal behaviour decreed it only. It isn't scientific.

As criminal Bala claim you should be life removed by choices yet my life should let carbon.

Men changed that review when king lord rich men's life was sacrificed too.

Only then did they preach the king lord men were innocent also. Even though the history says murderers of human life...even in documents it was decreed real.
 

DNB

Christian
1. Is Catholicism true and

2. Once enough people find a thing to be not true, can it unite humans sufficiently to bring about global unity?

It's been a while since I looked into Catholicism, and I seem to recall (though my memory is not a particularly good one) coming to the personal conclusion (in my opinion) that most of its central claims fall into the category of highly improbable to be true.

I also believe that if enough people discover a religion to be untrue it loses its power to unite those people and that reaching global unity will become improbable without some means of eliminating the dissenters.

Inspired by the thread;
Will empire return?.

In my opinion.
Is your question about global unity, or Catholicism?
If global unity, then, no, there will never be global unity whether or not the Catholic detractors or adherents find a common ground, for there is a large enough demography that doesn't want or care about world peace. Donald Trump, for example, could care less about America, unless he has some way to benefit. Hitler was a racist - do you think that he was the only one? Paul Bernardo prefer to rape women - how does one impart to him and other rapists that it's wrong?
The only way that there will be global unity is when you solve the problem of the human condition.

Why would you post the Nicene Creed in an attempt to define Catholicism - that's only one tenet of their entire theology?

1. Catholics Christology: they believe in the trinity (as do the Protestants and Eastern Orthodox).
2. Catholic Mariology: she was Immaculately conceived, and assumed into heaven. Theotokos - mother of God
3. Catholic sacraments - 7 in total, Protestants 2
4. Catholic prayer: Intercession of the saints
5: Catholic ecclesiology: Pope - the vicar of Christ, infallible ex-cathedra. Cardinals & Bishops preside over a diocese (as opposed to the Congregationalists, for example)
6: Catholic eucharist: transubstantiation, Protestants: consubstantiation
7. Catholic Bible: eg: Jerusalem, Douay-Rheims, American Standard (including Apocrypha) translations from Latin Vulgate, Protestants do not include Apocrypha, translations from earliest Hebrew & Greek manuscripts, eg: Geneva Bible

all that I can remember, for now....
 

Saint Frankenstein

Here for the ride
Premium Member
1. Is Catholicism true and

2. Once enough people find a thing to be not true, can it unite humans sufficiently to bring about global unity?

It's been a while since I looked into Catholicism, and I seem to recall (though my memory is not a particularly good one) coming to the personal conclusion (in my opinion) that most of its central claims fall into the category of highly improbable to be true.

I also believe that if enough people discover a religion to be untrue it loses its power to unite those people and that reaching global unity will become improbable without some means of eliminating the dissenters.

Inspired by the thread;
Will empire return?.

In my opinion.
I'm Catholic so of course I think Catholicism is true. But the point of Catholicism isn't global unity. It exists to administer the means of salvation, the Sacraments, and to gather souls for the Kingdom of God. It's not about a numbers game or politics, although we seek to spread the message of the Gospel. There will never be "global unity" (what is that, an NWO stereotype?) or peace as people are individuals with their own prerogative. However, the Revelation of St. John says that God will eventually make the truth evident to all at the end of days, so we'll at least all know what's the real deal eventually, in my belief.
 

InChrist

Free4ever
If religions are not helpful to all then can they be expected to unite people on the global level?
I was raised Catholic. I used to think there must be a true religion somewhere and kept searching only to be disappointed and see the faults. Then I was saved by a Person, the Savior Jesus Christ.
My perspective now is that religion is a distraction from the reality that truth is found in Christ Alone. The Prince of Peace is the only hope for this world.
 

rational experiences

Veteran Member
I was baptised Catholic so I know it belongs to Human choice. As I chose not to be indoctrinated also. Left.

I realised my parents human also babies only own the rights to teach my baby self human survival skills.

As I'm natural on earth.

I realised men as a father human used male force to procreate the human species with a female. His word use proves his domination expressed is relative to why he's wrong today.

Wo man.
Fe male.
Hu man. Domineering thinker.

My mother self told me our brother ignores her mutual equality...always had.

Natural communing advised my life.....
not Catholicism.

My brother separated his consciousness from spiritual human father mother by his caused science constant attacks.

Heavens mass body changed. Conditions by God above hence changed.

So man's maths womb zero space theories practice hurt his life.

Space was not to blame.
Human mother sister not to blame.

Human man did it to himself. Changed human animals bio genesis.

Science said the frozen dinosaur allowed our life on earth to return to human.

Science of men draw images dinosaurs whales monkeys apes then men.

Then preach once a man human was a dinosaur. Believes he was. Images says no you weren't.

He also preached ice is life's saviour as it remasses extra ice in winter to balance out summer.

So ice and not the saved dinosaur bio flesh in ice supports our biology.

Seemingly men's science falsely possessed his self human belief not to honour his humans living presence.

What was said by other men meaning was all highest greatest is as history. All past things. Not all past things converted.

Only human theists believe in conversion. At their human control.

No human Invented our life or animals or nature.

Men sexual is now force the claim a machine they control transmitting by humans mind control invented life now.

Is the reason Catholicism was expressed.

As it's verdict stated no man is God. Never give the word meaning God a name by any human or genetics will be destroyed and so now it is.

The book of life said no man is God.

So as the highest greatest past is gods. God owns patent human life expressed as bone skeletal dusts only.

Is exact told human advice now today to any lying human theist.

Our baby human life has not evolved from dead humans bone dusts.

The teaching said all human babies...all of us are born by human sex. In humans legal position no man is God.

As if men theory human life ours began in the past it is direct to bone dusts only. So by nuclear above transmitted causes the sun star mass crosses and we all instantly become dusts.

It was a humans warning about human theists and nuclear power want. Greedy evil minded human men. Reason dusts to dusts...life bio self combusted.

Men today re used nuclear bomb combustion..dust to dust in heavens....now are theorising nuclear in heavens above us beyond their contained bomb. Non containment nuclear event.

What they said Jesus was.

And want to put it there freely by machine causes. Dust to dust.
 
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rational experiences

Veteran Member
I was raised Catholic. I used to think there must be a true religion somewhere and kept searching only to be disappointed and see the faults. Then I was saved by a Person, the Savior Jesus Christ.
My perspective now is that religion is a distraction from the reality that truth is found in Christ Alone. The Prince of Peace is the only hope for this world.
Word coercion per son.

A theist of machines wants Jesus Christ to save his machines collider reaction.

Father memory says I name our species human.

Human is diverse.

I won't use any other term...your brother the theist lies.

Reason Christ heavens is light and dark in both places. Same heavens for a human.

He will argue...no it's not the same.

Yet it is Christ heavens only. Immaculate.

Immaculate in space womb was sacrificed only...gods heavens Inheritor. Is not any human. You falsified son of God terms.

Gods is just gods. Inheritance gods only.

Scientist theist wanted to copy a clear gas set alight in Alchemy. Is the human father's son who lied. He wasn't Christ's heavens.

Biology mainly water some minerals is held in water is our life. We aren't nuclear. Water is also clear. Gases are clear. Burning cooled gases aren't clear.
 

rational experiences

Veteran Member
Real memory.

Man Theist giant pyramid combusted all life on earth.

Machine parts instant mass fused proof.

Combusted us. Satanism.

Set alight night time sky changed night into day. Day light combusted us by non support immaculate night.

Millions of years passed. Dinosaur life lived. UFO sun event still active small body seen at night above us. Shining burning.

Ice saved life. We returned. UFO still seen above at night leaving voiding.

That advice men used to return it. Yet luckily night sky wasnt relit. Only all nations attacked.

Modern science made it cross back again from voiding leaving and is why we're now sick and dying. Science choice.

As we still have four seasons. Science claims it hasn't changed anything.

They lied. The UFO was only seen in night sky leaving. They returned it to earth from old star attack.

It's why all types cancer exists.

Earths heavens supported naturally the highest life first natural and healthy.

Science tried to convince humans life in the past that we were sick humans as monkey bodies first. To return our biology now to that status.
 

danieldemol

Veteran Member
Premium Member
The background assumption of the opening post of "truth unites humans" is an interesting one.

It also seems assumed that "truth can be determined" and possibly "truth is singular." Is there also an assumption "unity is good or desirable" in there?
I'd say its more of an assumption that falsehood divides than that truth unites.

I dont think all truth can be determined, but I do believe that there are some ideas which correspond to our observations of the external world and some which contradicts our observations of the external world.

I have left the question of whether unity is desirable open.

In my opinion.
 

Ella S.

Well-Known Member
As far as I know the Trinity remains the central doctrine of the Catholic Church, not just as 'a' doctrine, but the central doctrine from which all other doctrines are formed.

Yet most of the actual Catholics I've asked to explain their beliefs about the Holy Trinity end up actually describing Modalism or Partialism, not Trinitarianism:

The analogy of water being able to be cloud, water, and ice actually describes Modalism.

The analogy of a shamrock having three leaves actually describes Partialism. If they specify that these leaves share a single stem, that's Tritheism, although Tritheism is taboo enough that it seems to be the rarer heresy.

This is actually something I've had Lutheran, Anglican, and Catholic clergy complain about to me in conversation. They dislike the widespread misunderstandings of the mystery of the Trinitarian doctrine.

All of this said: each of these heresies still affirms the Holy Trinity. They just describe it in ways that contradict doctrine, which used to be an offense that was punished by burning them at the stake.
 

Glaurung

Denizen of Niflheim
I don't think the original post makes any sense to be honest. Whether or not Catholicism is true and how many accept or reject it have no intrinsic connection. Truth is concord with reality and if Catholicism concords with reality then it doesn't matter how many reject it because its true regardless of what anyone thinks or wishes. Christianity is universal in that it claims to be binding on all. But no where does Christianity stake its claims on whether or not it is embraced by the world.
 

rational experiences

Veteran Member
Trinity. I am before myself said man. A human man. I Am now a baby man. The first original man science theist.

Reason. What for. Why did you make the claim?

I had to as I ignored my human self and my origins. My human father.

Proven by a baby man theist claiming his human life birth was immaculate.
Instead of his confession ...I first theoried for I want.

He had wanted his life to all be what his immaculate thesis stated. Biology isn't a gas. Biology isn't clear gases burning in a spatial void.

Human warning man's greed will destroy life on earth. I want. Origin to human theorising. Intent.

Reason theist the first did not accept natural life or history of his owned natural life.

His owned.

His I own the ship review as life on the God stone ark. Planet earth.

The ship he says that travels by its rock birth one...a year 12 by its light a day 12 in spaces womb it's mother.

Holy One ownership. Life on earth by two procreation of itself said the rational man.

Basic reason. For Brain entrainment.

You are a baby.
Your baby man self grows and forms by the baby man creator a human man adult. You become as your father...I am before myself.....
.yet the ova ovah ovary was your cell creation.

A teaching.

Accept yourself that you began life as human man our adult father only. And you are just his man son.

Reason. Men misquoted by sophist contrived word terms against the term a human son.

A human son only exists by word definition in one place with himself. Human father.

He said you must accept you are three terms. Defined training in thinking concepts.

A baby man son.
A father's man history.
With ghost host heavens.

Immaculate..

Clear unseen....water and oxygen. As immaculate is seen as it's lighted self. The ghost of God were in clouds....as images.

The humans host was holy water oxygen clear immaculate....formed in spatial conditions womb mother of God terms.

Space womb pressures owned waters mass. And oxygen mass. By space laws.

To argue against earth dust theist sciences. We lived within the immaculate conditions.

Three woman term. Holy mother holy daughter virgin and holy whore of a man. Meaning only by sex was life conceived. Mother human origin virgin. His human daughter a virgin and his wife living communion his sister was by sex.

As baby man was not allowed to infer his mother unholy for having sex. Otherwise he wouldn't exist. He wasn't allowed to call his human daughter anything but a virgin. Yet his sister mother had sex.

Was the new teaching don't lie about who your mother and sister are in human life. They aren't space terms mother abomination. Why you attacked your own life by maths science.
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
1. Is Catholicism true and

2. Once enough people find a thing to be not true, can it unite humans sufficiently to bring about global unity?

It's been a while since I looked into Catholicism, and I seem to recall (though my memory is not a particularly good one) coming to the personal conclusion (in my opinion) that most of its central claims fall into the category of highly improbable to be true.

I also believe that if enough people discover a religion to be untrue it loses its power to unite those people and that reaching global unity will become improbable without some means of eliminating the dissenters.

Inspired by the thread;
Will empire return?.

In my opinion.

The perspective of truth depends on who is asking. A Catholic is more likely to consider Catholicism true and a non-Catholic to consider Catholicism false.

I consider Catholicism to be founded on truth and there is much to be admired in regards moral and spiritual truths. As the largest faith community on the planet from diverse cultures it has proven capacity to unite people around a common cause. It has already achieved global unity.
 

danieldemol

Veteran Member
Premium Member
In chapter 4, verse 8 and again in verse 16,, 1JN we read that "God is love," but a very particular kind of love, for the word chosen in the Greek text is agape. Agape is a purely other-directed love, a love that seeks no response and demands no return, a love centered totally on the beloved.
We are talking about Catholicism here though. As I understand it Catholicism wants you to return that love to the church and to Jesus or risk being at the very least thrown into purgatory I believe. As such I fail to see how this supposed love is anything other than self-centred love which seeks return - especially when you consider that according to Catholicism as I understand it Jesus is sort of God's self.

In my opinion.
 

danieldemol

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I don't think the original post makes any sense to be honest. Whether or not Catholicism is true and how many accept or reject it have no intrinsic connection. Truth is concord with reality and if Catholicism concords with reality then it doesn't matter how many reject it because its true regardless of what anyone thinks or wishes. Christianity is universal in that it claims to be binding on all. But no where does Christianity stake its claims on whether or not it is embraced by the world.
The original post according to my understanding makes no connection between whether or not Catholicism is true and how many accept or reject it. Rather it questions whether it is possible for the Catholic Roman empire to be resurected and spread on a global level given that too many have discovered or at least considered Catholicism to be false in my opinion.
 
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