Is Cherry-picking Okay?

[DanishCrow]

Tariqs words, not mine. He refers to what he perceives to be shared european values such as democracy, religious and gender/sexual equality.

 

[Rival]

Tariqs words, not mine. He refers to what he perceives to be shared European values such as democracy, religious and gender/sexual equality.

In a continent I doubt 'shared values' is ever going to work. There are ultra-cons and ultra-libs in Europe. There's not really any such thing as pan-Europeanism in terms of ideology and quite right too; let each country dictate itself in these areas.

 

[DanishCrow]

That may be so, but I don't see how it's especially relevant to my post, or the OP. Tariq* offers an opportunity to practice islam in a way that harmonizes with Searchingforgods ideals, why he chose to interpret the writings anew doesn't change their utility.


* Though his is only one of several currents of modernist, reformed islam

 

[Rival]

That may be so, but I don't see how it's especially relevant to my post, or the OP. Tariq* offers an opportunity to practice islam in a way that harmonizes with Searchingforgods ideals, why he chose to interpret the writings anew doesn't change their utility.


* Though his is only one of several currents of modernist, reformed islam

Sorry. I'm just in a mood to have a rip-roaring debate about something. I was kind of maybe hoping you'd hit back with something. Anything. Lol. Nevermind

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

Does your question in any way come down to what other Muslims might think about your cherry-picking?

In my opinion, cherry-picking ideas -- and not just religious ideas -- is a possible mark of wisdom. Some folks protest, but wise men and women have always gone for the best ideas regardless of what others have told them to do. Why think you must accept some trashy spiritual teaching that might even hinder or prevent your spiritual progress just so you can accept a golden nugget of a teaching? What's the sense in that?

Exactly. 'Cherry-picking' is only bad for a system that maintains itself by telling people what their beliefs are. Heaven forfend they should put any independent thought into it!

 

[DanishCrow]

Sorry. I'm just in a mood to have a rip-roaring debate about something. I was kind of maybe hoping you'd hit back with something. Anything. Lol. Nevermind

So I gathered Maybe make a thread in comparative religion or something and I'll fight you for a while.

 

[Ellen Brown]

Exactly. 'Cherry-picking' is only bad for a system that maintains itself by telling people what their beliefs are. Heaven forfend they should put any independent thought into it!

All of our religious "scripture" was written by dead people. Unless, of course you are Mormon; then everything the President of the Church says is scripture. Enough foolishness and vainglory. Remember, I am a spiritual tramp, and that sort of life fits me. Rather snottily, I think that organized religion soon gets into fixation almost as soon as it is formed.

It seems to me that "cherry picking" is the only sensible way to confront belief. The deceiver gets in and confuses religion almost as soon as it is formed. And how can we rationally decide what we believe if we have not critically examined the rules. And, perhaps the rules we each decide on are only good for us?

My rules come from Micah 6:8, Matt 5, Matt 19:12, 1 Cor 11 and a few other places. It is not negotiable that we women should cover our head in public. That it is probably NOT OK to eat pork, and perhaps shellfish.

I need a nap.

 

[Katzpur]

All of our religious "scripture" was written by dead people. Unless, of course you are Mormon; then everything the President of the Church says is scripture.

That is not true. You've made it abundantly clear how you feel about Mormonism, and I don't really care what your personal feelings on my religion are. But I can tell you one thing: Every time you post something inaccurate about Mormonism, I'll be right behind you to set the record straight.

 

[Ellen Brown]

That is not true. You've made it abundantly clear how you feel about Mormonism, and I don't really care what your personal feelings on my religion are. But I can tell you one thing: Every time you post something inaccurate about Mormonism, I'll be right behind you to set the record straight.

Don't be so childish and defensive. I've had very intimate contact with it as a Golden Investigator here in Oregon. I don't actually wish to have a cat fight. Ask your Bishop.

 

[Katzpur]

Don't be so childish and defensive.

Don't be so touchy. Having someone correct you doesn't need to be a soul-crushing event.

I've had very intimate contact with it as a Golden Investigator here in Oregon.

Golden, huh? Wow, I'm impressed.

I don't actually wish to have a cat fight. Ask your Bishop.

You're funny. I don't need to ask my bishop. I've been a Mormon all my life. I think that my nearly 70 years of personal experience as a Mormon trumps your brief stint as a "Golden Investigator."

 

[Ellen Brown]

Don't be so touchy. Having someone correct you doesn't need to be a soul-crushing event.
Golden, huh? Wow, I'm impressed.

You're funny. I don't need to ask my bishop. I've been a Mormon all my life. I think that my nearly 70 years of personal experience as a Mormon trumps your brief stint as a "Golden Investigator."

I will make one final effort to bring this pseudo conversation back into the realm of civility. The "Words of the Prophet as Scripture" is seen by many Mormons as true. I am not really sure why you are so quick to jump to "full on ***** state". You did of course have the choice to discuss this in a Christ like civil manner but you chose not to do that.

Every belief system I have studied, and there have been many, has issues about it that are quite humorous and open to good natured mirth. Come on, laugh a little. My late life avocation is the study of theology. "Study" being key in that I am always striving to learn.

These days, my own beliefs are very basic, having decided that the rules of men have pretty much killed true love of God, Heavenly Father, Allah SWT, Yahweh, Ahura Mazda or whatever one chooses to call the Creator.

 

[Katzpur]

I will make one final effort to bring this pseudo conversation back into the realm of civility. The "Words of the Prophet as Scripture" is seen by many Mormons as true.

It doesn't really matter what "many Mormons see as true." What matters is what is factual, and for you to say that Mormons believe (or are supposed to believe) that "everything the President of the Church says is scripture" is simply not factual. I could post perhaps a dozen or more statements from Church leaders saying as much. The bottom line is that you are in no position to be telling anybody what Mormons do or do not believe. You have accused me of being impolite and not very Christlike. May I respectfully suggest you see about getting that beam removed from your eye. It is clearly obstructing your vision.

 

[Ellen Brown]

It doesn't really matter what "many Mormons see as true." What matters is what is factual, and for you to say that Mormons believe (or are supposed to believe) that "everything the President of the Church says is scripture" is simply not factual. I could post perhaps a dozen or more statements from Church leaders saying as much. The bottom line is that you are in no position to be telling anybody what Mormons do or do not believe. You have accused me of being impolite and not very Christlike. May I respectfully suggest you see about getting that beam removed from your eye. It is clearly obstructing your vision.

I'm disappointed but not surprised by your response. My final refusal to join that church was good judgement on my part. My deepest sympathies to you, but you will not stop me voicing my own opinions. You've done violence to me and found a way to justify it. Not as Jesus would have it at all.

 

[Ellen Brown]

It doesn't really matter what "many Mormons see as true." What matters is what is factual, and for you to say that Mormons believe (or are supposed to believe) that "everything the President of the Church says is scripture" is simply not factual. I could post perhaps a dozen or more statements from Church leaders saying as much. The bottom line is that you are in no position to be telling anybody what Mormons do or do not believe. You have accused me of being impolite and not very Christlike. May I respectfully suggest you see about getting that beam removed from your eye. It is clearly obstructing your vision.

No, absolutely un Christ like and shameless too.

 

[Katzpur]

I'm disappointed but not surprised by your response. My final refusal to join that church was good judgement on my part. My deepest sympathies to you, but you will not stop me voicing my own opinions. You've done violence to me and found a way to justify it. Not as Jesus would have it at all.

No, absolutely un Christ like and shameless too.

You go right ahead and voice your "opinions" all you want. You're entitled to do that on this forum. But when you state your opinions as if they were "fact," and they are inaccurate, I'll correct you. Jesus didn't condone lying either, as I recall.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

All of our religious "scripture" was written by dead people. Unless, of course you are Mormon; then everything the President of the Church says is scripture.

Speaking as a former Mormon, I can say this is categorically not true. @Katzpur is correct. I'll leave the rest of your post because I've not got much to say one way or the other about that.

I'm disappointed but not surprised by your response. My final refusal to join that church was good judgement on my part. My deepest sympathies to you, but you will not stop me voicing my own opinions. You've done violence to me and found a way to justify it.

What melodramatic silliness is this? Katzpur is calling you out for making an erroneous statement about her church. That's not violence. That's how internet fora (or any civilised discussion, really, should work). If you're not accustomed to being corrected then perhaps you should become accustomed.

Not as Jesus would have it at all.

Yeah, because correcting religious misinterpretation wasn't Jesus' style at all.

 

[Ellen Brown]

Speaking as a former Mormon, I can say this is categorically not true. @Katzpur is correct. I'll leave the rest of your post because I've not got much to say one way or the other about that.




What melodramatic silliness is this? Katzpur is calling you out for making an erroneous statement about her church. That's not violence. That's how internet fora (or any civilised discussion, really, should work). If you're not accustomed to being corrected then perhaps you should become accustomed.




Yeah, because correcting religious misinterpretation wasn't Jesus' style at all.

So, I am a liar? Fine.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

So, I am a liar? Fine.

This has to have been what I was getting at (as opposed to anything else like 'you're mistaken'). What a perfectly reasonable conclusion to jump to. So perfectly perfect in its perfection.