Is Christianity a Negative Religion?

[lunamoth]

It's equally unfortunate when people are taught only the positive side and don't understand what has happened historically and why that upsets some people. The best is obviously for people to look at all sides. :yes:

Hi Danisty,

Do you mean the negative side of the theology or do you mean the negative side of the history, all the atrocities carried out in the name of Christianity?

 

[lilithu]

It's equally unfortunate when people are taught only the positive side and don't understand what has happened historically and why that upsets some people. The best is obviously for people to look at all sides. :yes:

I was referring to the theology, not the history. And it would be absolutely fine with me if people were never taught the negative theology (substitutionary atonement, hellfire and damnation) again. But I doubt that will happen anytime soon.

As for the history, sure, both sides must be taught.

 

[Gentoo]

OK, obviously my answer is no.

But people who leave Christianity, either drifting off into a secular life or actually converting to a different religion, sometimes site a negative perspective toward humanity or too much emphasis on 'sin' in Christianity as the reason they were turned off from it.

Do you agree that Christianity has a more negative outlook on things? Please say whether you are or were a Christian, and if you left what made you do so. Was it the teachings, the people, a particular experience?

From my own perspective, I think Christianity is a very (the most) hopeful and positive religion. I can understand however that the emphasis on sin, and especially the doctrine of Original Sin, is viewed by many as a negative aspect of Christianity, especially when combined with some Protestant teachings about predestination and hell. Personally I think that while some meditation on sin and hell (as separation from God) can deepen our faith, to only emphasize these aspects is a shallow, hollow approach to Christianity and yes, I consider that a very negative face of the religion. It can also be noted that not all Christian denominations, notably the Eastern Orthodox, have Original Sin as part of their doctrine, and the ideas of theosis and apacatastasis are not/have not always been viewed as heresies.

I find it sad that people consider any religion as negative. I was once Catholic, and I left a month after my confirmation. It wasn't the people, I didn't go to church in the first place, just CCD; or even some of the beliefs, though there were some that I didn't care for. What made me leave was that I couldn't believe that Jesus was any more special than we are, as people. I couldn't take that leap to say that he was THE son of God. And that I believe is a defination of a Christian, since the religion was based around that belief.

The religion itself is wonderful, it was the poor-man's religion that offered hope to people that needed it. Somewhere along the line, the message of peace and love got distorted to what it is now. And I find that a shame. The religion is still that of peace and love, and a lot of Christians actually follow it, it's the ones that don't that make me cringe in self-defence-mode that make it negative. But every religion has it's "good" members and it's "bad" members.

 

[Ðanisty]

Hi Danisty,

Do you mean the negative side of the theology or do you mean the negative side of the history, all the atrocities carried out in the name of Christianity?

I mean that if people are either going to bother belonging to a religion or criticizing a religion, they should know all the things about it. It only makes sense to educate yourself.

I was referring to the theology, not the history. And it would be absolutely fine with me if people were never taught the negative theology (substitutionary atonement, hellfire and damnation) again. But I doubt that will happen anytime soon.

As for the history, sure, both sides must be taught.

This is interesting because I think I just figured something out. Those who are promoting Christianity are good generally make their arguments based on the theology and those who are criticizing it are looking at the history. It does no good for Christians to discount other people's gripes about the history of Christianity. It's history has, after all, affected everyone. Frankly, I think both groups of people should bother to know the good and bad about both the theology and the history. I don't like the idea that any of it should be ignored.

 

[lunamoth]

Hi Lilithu, just now saw that you added to your post.

Like all religions, Christianity has a positive side and a negative side. It is unfortunate that so many people are taught the negative side, and also taught that's all there is.

Growing up in the Episcopal Church my experience was very positive, and what theology I gleaned from church and Sunday school struck me anywhere from "nice" to somewhat confusing at the time, but I never had any negative experinece. If I had grown up with fire and brimstone it would have been a different story I'm sure. I mostly just drifted away until my late 30's.

Addendum:
oops, sorry.
Christianity, meaning the teachings of Jesus? Or Christianity meaning the official doctrine for the last however many years?

I left it open as there is a lot of variation in Christian doctrine.

As much as I revere the teachings of Jesus, as well as I get along with most "red-letter" Christians, I cannot help but believe that the idea of damnation for those "outside the church" is one of the more negative/damaging ideas in religion.

I agree that that is a negative message. Well, I never believed that growing up, I didn't believe it as a Baha'i, and I still don't believe it. The thing about those red letters, they most likely reflect the voice of the early Christian community, their recollection of Jesus' message. Hard to know exactly what Jesus may have actually said. I trust though that the message is intact.

No, I'm not Christian. I was from the age of 9 until around 15. It was both the teachings and the people that made me leave. I could not reconcile the teachings of hell for all non-Christians and predestination with a just, loving God. When I asked about this, I was made to feel as if the act of questioning was sinful.

That would really turn me off as well. I just don't understand it when some Christians try to tell me that any questions I have, or any moments of doubt, are sinful. It makes Christianty seem less real to me, more like some kind of magic trick, when people take that approach to 'faith.'

That was at a conservative Lutheran school. When I was in high school, I hooked up very briefly with some non-denominational evangelical Christians, who told me to abandon studying science because it would weaken my faith.

Well that piece of advice backfired!

And when we prayed (out loud in a circle) I had the uncomfortable impression that each person there was trying to outdo each other in piety. Strange to say, but that may have been even more off-putting than the theology that I couldn't accept.

I was part of an evangelical Bible study for a couple of years before I returned to Christianity. I got used to that kind of circle prayer during that time, but the prayer was never a negative experience for me, just different from what I was used to. What did give me a problem and had me biting my toungue off was when either the conversation got political (and we were not supposed to talk politics, but it was an election year and people just could not help it sometimes) and when they started to bash science and evolution. I think that kind of attitude actually scared me when I realized what a large part of the population is anti-evolution. No one in the group knew my background, so I just bit my tongue (literally) as they made fun of scientists 'who thought that we came out of the mud and ooze of the ocean.'

Looking back, I also realize that I never was a trinitarian, no matter how hard I tried to be. I believed Jesus was the Son of God, but not God the Son. I believed he was holy, wonderful, beautiful, amazing, etc. (Still do.) But when I thought of God, when I prayed, when I argued, it was always the "Father" that I had in mind. And when I thought of Jesus, it was always as a human who loved and suffered greatly. (And I never understood back then what the Holy Ghost was all about.)

Interesting. I have come to love the Trinity as an expression of God's love, and as Mystery. I think something that turns me off from some religions is that they presume to know too much and accepting the Trinity is, for me, like a koan because it is ultiamtely inexpressible. Yet, at the same time it addresses the different experiences we can have of God. Likewise, the Incarnation I think is an amazing thing, that God would deem to be with us, to touch us in our brokenness, to suffer along with us. Again, I see that as a brilliant act of love.

Thank you for giving more of your background...very interesting.

 

[lunamoth]

This is interesting because I think I just figured something out. Those who are promoting Christianity are good generally make their arguments based on the theology and those who are criticizing it are looking at the history. It does no good for Christians to discount other people's gripes about the history of Christianity. It's history has, after all, affected everyone. Frankly, I think both groups of people should bother to know the good and bad about both the theology and the history. I don't like the idea that any of it should be ignored.

I think you are very right that it is a mistake to overlook history and the history of Christianity is indeed filled with lots of greed, avarice, violence, incompetence, and political power struggles. Perhaps because it is a triumphalistic religion (sees itself as ultimately victorious over the whole world) it is more prone to abuse by political entities.

The idea of triumphalism in religion would make a good thread topic...

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Thier is nothing wrong with the Christian religion, for the most part.
It's the followers who relentlessly preach about hell and sin that are negative.

 

[Mister_T]

Considering that Xianity has killed and tortured millions over the last 2k years, as well as destroyed many cultures, I would consider it to be a very negative religion.

Killing and torturing was going on long before the Christian religion came along.

 

[Feathers in Hair]

Killing and torturing was going on long before the Christian religion came along.

*nods adamantly* It kind of goes hand-in-hand with having humans around.

 

[Mister_T]

*nods adamantly* It kind of goes hand-in-hand with having humans around.

Exactly.

 

[lilithu]

This is interesting because I think I just figured something out. Those who are promoting Christianity are good generally make their arguments based on the theology and those who are criticizing it are looking at the history. It does no good for Christians to discount other people's gripes about the history of Christianity. It's history has, after all, affected everyone. Frankly, I think both groups of people should bother to know the good and bad about both the theology and the history. I don't like the idea that any of it should be ignored.

As my first religious studies professor said, people tend to judge their own religions by the best of their intentions and judge the religions of others by the worst of their actions.

I agree that we can't ignore history, and that Christianity has a bloody history. I also believe that it's not inherently worse or better than other religions. Unfortunately, the religions of those who hold power tend to be used for violence, because their believers have the power to do so.

 

[Rolling_Stone]

Is Christianity a Negative Religion?

There are 2 kinds of Christianity: the religion of Jesus and the religion about Jesus. The former is just the opposite of a "negative" religion, a religion of service and love, while the latter is extremely diverse.

 

[lilithu]

Hi Lilithu, just now saw that you added to your post.

Growing up in the Episcopal Church my experience was very positive, and what theology I gleaned from church and Sunday school struck me anywhere from "nice" to somewhat confusing at the time, but I never had any negative experinece. If I had grown up with fire and brimstone it would have been a different story I'm sure. I mostly just drifted away until my late 30's.

Hi Luna,

I sometimes wonder what would have happened had I first been exposed to a gentler, kinder Christianity than I was. Since then I've learned that there are two branches of Lutheranism, and have met Lutherans who believe very differently from what I was taught in school. And I agree with Gentoo that Catholicism's emphasis on the poor is very beautiful to me. And at this point, having talked with many liberal Christians, I can articulate a Christian theology that I could easily accept, even including the resurrection and the trinity. (Tho my interpretations would be called heretical by most.)

However, the version of Christianity that I was first taught... not only could I not accept it but they also told me that I couldn't question it. It was "take it or leave it" so I left it.

Ironically, it was Unitarian Universalism that first taught me that it was actually ok to wrestle with biblical scripture, to reinterpret. And led me to see how I can truly love Christianity rather than just "tolerate" it.

I was part of an evangelical Bible study for a couple of years before I returned to Christianity. I got used to that kind of circle prayer during that time, but the prayer was never a negative experience for me, just different from what I was used to.

Not me. I kept thinking of Jesus' parable of the pharisee and the tax collector, and his teaching that when we pray we should do so in private.

However, now, I can also see how someone can be so emotionally moved by an experience that they feel the need to "testify."

What did give me a problem and had me biting my toungue off was when either the conversation got political (and we were not supposed to talk politics, but it was an election year and people just could not help it sometimes) and when they started to bash science and evolution. I think that kind of attitude actually scared me when I realized what a large part of the population is anti-evolution. No one in the group knew my background, so I just bit my tongue (literally) as they made fun of scientists 'who thought that we came out of the mud and ooze of the ocean.'

Yeah, I wouldn't have lasted two seconds in that group.

Interesting. I have come to love the Trinity as an expression of God's love, and as Mystery. I think something that turns me off from some religions is that they presume to know too much and accepting the Trinity is, for me, like a koan because it is ultiamtely inexpressible. Yet, at the same time it addresses the different experiences we can have of God.

Yes, different experiences of God is how my liberation theology professor explained it too.

Likewise, the Incarnation I think is an amazing thing, that God would deem to be with us, to touch us in our brokenness, to suffer along with us. Again, I see that as a brilliant act of love.

I can appreciate that, tho I still don't really believe it. If I were to call myself Christian, I would definitely be heretical - an Arian Christian. Which is why I don't. Ironically, I have friends who call themselves Christian who accept even less of traditional doctrine than I do. But I think that they can make this claim with sincerity because they never left the Christian faith. They just wrestled with it until it was comfortable for them. For me, I feel like I would have to be able to accept the core doctrines in order to be able to sincerely use that label. And I can't. But I can be genuinely happy for you.

Also, I like being able to embrace both the Jesus whom I met thru school and the Siddhartha whom I met thru my aunts and uncles. This may not have been clear in my previous post but I was Christian because that's what they taught me to be in Lutheran school. But my parents are not Christian; they're atheists. (And probably think that school turned me into a religious nut. It's hard for me to explain to them that I already believed in God before I had ever heard of Christianity.)

 

[ChristineES]

I did not learn Christianity from any Church, I learned it from Jesus' teachings in the New Testament. I grew up in an agnostic household and seldom went to Church as a child.
As for the negative history; do you think we do not anything at all about the crusades or the Spanish Inquistion or whatever else? Unfortunately I do know about it and it makes me angry because these people seemed to me to pervert Jesus' teachings tremendously and gave the rest of us a bad name in the process. I wish I could go back in time and change, but I can not. I can only live my faith to the best of my ability.
There are some Christians who still preach hell and brimstone, but Jesus' teachings (as I and others have said) are about love and forgiveness.
It is not fair to judge ALL Christians by what a few do.

 

[may]

as a Jehovahs witness we do not focus on negative, we focus on positive GOODNEWS
And this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come. MATTHEW 24;14 THE END OF MANMADE GOVERMENTS and then Gods goverment can rule without any thing to get in the way
"And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be brought to ruin. And the kingdom itself will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it itself will stand to times indefinite; Daniel; 2;44 NOW THAT IS GOODNEWS. Its all happening in this time of the end ......... nice

 

[jacquie4000]

I think any religion can have a positive side or a negitive side dependeing on how that religion is presented to that individual and how that individual recieves it. Sometimes it takes alot of searching to find a place you feel you belong in that specific religion.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

OK, obviously my answer is no.

But people who leave Christianity, either drifting off into a secular life or actually converting to a different religion, sometimes site a negative perspective toward humanity or too much emphasis on 'sin' in Christianity as the reason they were turned off from it.

When I disassociated myself with the Christian community, it was due to the interpretation of doctrine that I was taught to believe, and how a just and loving God would send Ghandi and all the Jews murdered int he Holocaust to hell. It was a viewing of Schindler's List that literally jolted me out of my patterns, since once I finished viewing such a visceral film, I found myself repeating what I often did......"It's too bad they're all in hell now."

When I heard myself say those words, I became sick to my stomach and couldn't reconcile how a matter of perspective could be cause for damnation, while actions meant very little. I wept and wept openly and prayed for guidance, but received none. The more I tried to swallow the doctrine from there as it was taught to me, the less at peace I was. It bugged the heck out of me that I needed to only look out for my own behind in the afterlife and to see other faiths as being so dispensible. Besides, my introduction to pranayama and hatha yoga at an early age was one of the very few practices that helped me through rough times. Prayer rarely did. Seeking church counsel never did. After a year or so of wrestling with my conventional thinking, I came to the conclusion that I simply could not be a part of the Christian community. So I left. With a lot of sadness, and a little bit of bitterness - I felt that I'd wasted 20 years of my life or so trying to be someone I wasn't.

Do you agree that Christianity has a more negative outlook on things? Please say whether you are or were a Christian, and if you left what made you do so. Was it the teachings, the people, a particular experience?

At this point, I wouldn't say that Christianity has a more negative outlook on things, but the Christianity I am shown IRL most often is perhaps more arrogant, and arrogance just simply turns me off to the "nth" degree. I never can understand how anyone can drive around in a car with a bumper sticker that says, "Christians aren't better than anyone else, just saved." LOL Aaaaaahhhhhh, the hypocrisy...........

From my own perspective, I think Christianity is a very (the most) hopeful and positive religion. I can understand however that the emphasis on sin, and especially the doctrine of Original Sin, is viewed by many as a negative aspect of Christianity, especially when combined with some Protestant teachings about predestination and hell. Personally I think that while some meditation on sin and hell (as separation from God) can deepen our faith, to only emphasize these aspects is a shallow, hollow approach to Christianity and yes, I consider that a very negative face of the religion. It can also be noted that not all Christian denominations, notably the Eastern Orthodox, have Original Sin as part of their doctrine, and the ideas of theosis and apacatastasis are not/have not always been viewed as heresies.

Of course you feel that way. Certainly not knockin' ya there, sister-friend. I would like to point out that becoming a part of the Buddhist general sang'ha really encouraged me to find a way to embrace my former path. Practicing Buddhism with a troubled mind only creates more turmoil, and so I was nudged to make peace with my Christian past. I now credit my Buddhist practices with my Gospel studies in a whole new positive light (a little like Lilithu, which at this point rarely surprises me anymore). I could meditate on the Gospels and the Epistles with a new and fresh perspective, and I can now enjoy and find inspiration in the Bible without fear that I'm getting it "right."

I think the difference is now, I understand that I view Jesus much in the same light that many of my friends and family view Gautama Buddha: Outstanding teacher, but not inherently more special than anyone else.



Peace,
Mystic

 

[lilithu]

I now credit my Buddhist practices with my Gospel studies in a whole new positive light (a little like Lilithu, which at this point rarely surprises me anymore). I could meditate on the Gospels and the Epistles with a new and fresh perspective, and I can now enjoy and find inspiration in the Bible without fear that I'm getting it "right."

It was my zen buddhist teacher who taught me how to understand what I had found to be one of Jesus' most troubling teachings: "It is harder for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven than for a camel to go through the eye of a needle." For the longest time, I didn't understand why loving, wonderful, kind Jesus would condemn a person to hell just because he or she happened to have money. In bringing to my awareness the concept of attachment - "this (money) belongs to me" - I finally understood. Jesus was not condemning anyone, merely stating a fact.

I think the difference is now, I understand that I view Jesus much in the same light that many of my friends and family view Gautama Buddha: Outstanding teacher, but not inherently more special than anyone else.

Is the Buddha inherently more special to you than anyone else?

Interestingly, I just realized that while I have no trouble calling Siddhartha Gautama "the Buddha" I almost never refer to Jesus as "(the) Christ" when talking about my own beliefs. hmm.... am going to have to reflect on that...

 

[Sunstone]

I'm afraid that I've gradually come to think of Christianity as often quite negative. What has influenced me most in coming to that conclusion are two things.

First, the testimony of many people who have left Christianity. Especially the testimony of those people who at one point or another in their lives deeply believed in it. I have heard again and again from such people how disspirited Christianity made them with it's talk of sin, eternal torment, and guilt. I have heard again and again that leaving Christianity felt like having a burden lifted from their shoulders. And I have heard again and again how offended they now are with the religion for what it did to them. All that leads me to believe that Christianity might have too strong a strain of negativity in it, even though not everyone is equally affected by that negativity.

Second, I've seen so much willful ignorance on the part of some Christians when it comes to such things as evolution, abstinence only sex ed, and other topics that I have been forced to conclude that Christianity is at times capable of influencing otherwise sensible people into giving up their intellectual honesty. That seems quite a negative characteristic for a religion, IMHO.

On the other hand, I find the Christian emphasis on universal love as a path to God to be remarkable in the history of religions, and a very posititve thing.

So, while I don't view Christianity as wholely negative, I do think it has too much negativity in it, and should dump some of that burden in favor of focusing on its positive aspects. But that's just my opinion.

Please note: I no longer buy the notion that anyone who gets a negative message from Christianity is herself at fault for getting a negative message from it -- and that Christianity was not meant to be interpreted that way. If that were true, then the otherwise positive and upbeat people I know who left Christianity because of its negativity would not have found the religion so negative, for many of them are naturally bouyant people.

At any rate, that's my 2 cents about the negativity of Christianity, and I would love to be wrong about that since Christianity is a major religion that influences millions of people, but I fear that I might be closer to being right than to being wrong.

 

[gnostic]

It is most the way (some) Christians view "those who are not" that make the biggest negative impact. If these...what should I call them? fundamental Christians? self-righteous Christians? If these Christians would stop calling other people evil or their "belief" as being evil, then Christianity can be positive religion.

Not only that Christians have a long history of tearing down temples, destroying what they called idols (but I call it arts and relics), burning books. Lots of artworks were lost due to these Christians, who defaced arts in the name of their God and Jesus, doesn't show "love thy neighbours" virtues. As far back as Constantine's time, they were burning books, and many Gnostic books were lost.

There are few Christians, even today, who gone and burn Harry Potter books!

I values books and arts as precious part of our history and self-expression, regardless if I like or agree with the books or not. I wouldn't burn or advocate the destruction of the Bible, Torah, Qur'an (don't have this book in my collection yet), Book of Mormon, etc, even if I was secular agnostic.

That's why I sympathises pagans and heretics so much, because past Christians have done wrong to their "neighbours" they were supposed to love.

You can even see this happening with Bush, who liked to throw "evil" around. His speeches on axis of evil at 5 countries, not only at the country's leaders/regimes, but he had also "demonised" every single ordinary citizens and offended many.