Is Christmas Christian or "Satanic"?

[ADigitalArtist]

However. When the followers of the Judaistic religions came in they took the image of the Horned God and declared it as Satan.

Did you mean Christians? Because there is no Satan (as such) in Judaism. Specifically the 'adversary' is more like a prosecutor and has not fallen (and because free will is not something angels have in Judaism, could not fall).

As for Christmas, the traditions associated with summer and winter solstice is unique to no pagan society and is commonplace to all agrarian cultures. For example you'll find ancient winter tree decorations everywhere from Scandanavia to Rome to Japan. And while Germanic pagan celebrations undoubtedly influenced the culture of Christians (and visa versa) calling it stealing is pretty hyperbolic. Does that mean Germanic winter celebratons were stolen from earlier Egyptian ones? Ironically the birth of Horus was, like Jesus, originally celebrated in the summer but moved to the winter because
A. Winters are boring in agrarian society as there is little to do but wait for spring field work and calfing animals, so it's a perfect holiday time.
B. Fits symbolically with gods delivering people from darkness.
C. End of winter is observed world wide as a time of new beginnings, with big feasts and gift giving.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

That it is more plausible that the Dec 25th date results from it being 9 months after the annunciation March 25th, the date tradition said Jesus was conceived on.
This tradition predates the Sol Invictus celebration which only began in the 3rd C.

I find any such traditions do Not pre-date Scripture which was completed at the end of the first century.
Since Jesus was 33 1/2 years old when he died on the Spring month of Nisan the 14th day on the Jewish calender, then Jesus would have turned 34 in the Fall or Autumn of the year, thus placing his birth around or near the beginning of October.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Christmas is neither Christian nor Satanic.
The Christians stole the winter solstice holiday off the Pagans and renamed it.

Seems as if they did Not re-name it correctly because Santa is the god of Christmas.
So, Santa-mas or Santa-nalia after the Saturnalia might be more appropriate because Jesus has nothing to do with it.

 

[Augustus]

I find any such traditions do Not pre-date Scripture which was completed at the end of the first century.

Predates the pagan festival, not predates scripture.

Do you have a source for when 25th of march became tradition?

First I know mentioned it was Tertullian around 200. Not sure if this was the first source though.

 

[Jumi]

Predates the pagan festival, not predates scripture.

Interestingly, Christmas carries the same name, Yule, as the pagan festival the Scandinavians had before Christianity.

First I know mentioned it was Tertullian around 200. Not sure if this was the first source though.

I tried googling around, and found the same being repeated in various sites, but none showed what text it was quoted from.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Seems as if they did Not re-name it correctly because Santa is the god of Christmas.
So, Santa-mas or Santa-nalia after the Saturnalia might be more appropriate because Jesus has nothing to do with it.

Santa comes from saint (a la Santa Maria) after the patron saint Nicholas, a bishop who spent his considerable fortune aiding the poor and children. Over time as Christmas became a one-day holiday instead of the many day affair, Saint Nicholas day was imported into Christmas proper.
The magic elf chimney visitor thing didn't appear until much later.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

This is too stupid for me. Christmas has nothing to do with paganism or Satanism (which didn't exist during that time). There was no horned sun god. Margaret Murray and the Wiccans pretty much made that up. The idea that Satan has horns and hooves is a very modern idea, certainly not ancient.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

This is too stupid for me. Christmas has nothing to do with paganism or Satanism (which didn't exist during that time). There was no horned sun god. Margaret Murray and the Wiccans pretty much made that up. The idea that Satan has horns and hooves is a very modern idea, certainly not ancient.

I wouldn't say nothing as the cultural exchange with Germanic pagans was considerable and cross polliation inevitable, but the 'stolen holiday' thing is way overblown and disingenuous.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I wouldn't say nothing as the cultural exchange with Germanic pagans was considerable and cross polliation inevitable, but the 'stolen holiday' thing is way overblown and disingenuous.

You mean Santa and the elves? That's cultural, not religious. I'm not sure how much of that has to do with Germanic paganism, either. I just see claims with no evidence.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

You mean Santa and the elves? That's cultural, not religious. I'm not sure how much of that has to do with Germanic paganism, either. I just see claims with no evidence.

Not really sure that the divide between cultural and religious is a significant one considering how blended the two are. But yeah the mischievous gift-giving elf came from Julenisse (or yule nisse), but Santa himself was based on bishop Saint Nicholas (associated with generosity) but the wide association between the two didn't happen until the modern age. The word and usage of yule (old Norse Jul or jol) is specificaly a Norse heathen winter festival honoring the gods (and Odin himself) and several traditions including the yule log was inspired from that religious festival.

However, small pickings compared to the overall Christmas tradition, which had multiple influences many or which happen world wide in all agrarian societies.
So the Christmas = pagan is not wholly false but also not mostly true.

 

[idav]

Is Satan a taker?

This is most likely coming from when Satan tried to steal the throne from God.
But view it like this. The Angels work for God in such a strict sense that they might as well be slaves. They are considered higher beings but their importance is so unrecognized within the Bible that they are never mentioned as sentient let alone possessing Free-Will like Man. Although Satan acted against his commands so they clearly have free will. That means that they are slaves, willing or not.
This would mean that Satan wasn't just trying to take the throne from God but he was trying to give freedom to his Angel brothers and Sisters.

The first creature to demand equal rights was a taker eh?
Even then he never actually took from anybody. Not directly. The only time he is quoted as taking something from somebody was with God's permission, and that was to test a man.

If it's really satanic it's for self, any giving would be with a false spirit, only doing it for the self interests.

 

[ChristineM]

Christ-mas is the Christian version of a celebration of midwinter that dates back to long before Christianity was a twinkle in Tiberius Julius Abdes Pantera's eye.

Here is a list from Wikipedia of some of the holidays/celebrations held by various religions or otherwise.

Hinduism

• Pancha Ganapati: 21–25 December – modern five-day festival in honor of Lord Ganesha, celebrated by Hindus in USA.

Historical

• Malkh: 25 December
• Mōdraniht: or Mothers' Night, the Saxon winter solstice festival.
• Saturnalia: 17–23 December - An ancient Roman winter solstice festival in honor of the deity Saturn, held on the 17 December of the Julian calendar and expanded with festivities through to 23 December. Celebrated with sacrifice, a public banquet, followed by private gift-giving, continual partying, and a carnival.
• Dies Natalis Solis Invicti (Day of the birth of the Unconquered Sun): 25 December – late Roman Empire

Judaism

• Hanukkah: usually falls anywhere between late November and early January. See "movable"

Paganism

• Yule: Pagan winter festival that was celebrated by the historical Germanic people from late December to early January.
• Yalda: 21 December – The turning point, Winter Solstice. As the longest night of the year and the beginning of the lengthening of days, Shabe Yaldā or Shabe Chelle is an Iranian festival celebrating the victory of light and goodness over darkness and evil. Shabe yalda means 'birthday eve.' According to Persian mythology, Mithra was born at dawn on 22 December to a virgin mother. He symbolizes light, truth, goodness, strength, and friendship. Herodotus reports that this was the most important holiday of the year for contemporary Persians. In modern times Persians celebrate Yalda by staying up late or all night, a practice known as Shab Chera meaning 'night gazing'. Fruits and nuts are eaten, especially pomegranates and watermelons, whose red color invokes the crimson hues of dawn and symbolize Mithra

 

[Enoch07]

Who said that Christianity belongs to pagans?
I said that this stolen Holiday belongs to pagans.

It wasn't stolen. It's called Definition of TRANSFIGURATION.

This was done in an (successful) attempt at converting Pagans to Christians long ago. It helped the Pagans transition to Christianity by letting them retain some semblance of their former religious/spiritual traditions. The old meanings of these traditions do not apply to Christians as they replaced them with their own meanings.

It amazes me how some peope actually get butt hurt over these things.

 

[Scott C.]

I am sure that a majority of us recognize the pagan origins of Christmas. But very few if anybody understands the possibly "Satanic" nature of the holiday today. I am here to present the argument that Christmas is Satanic by the Christian definition of Satanic.

The Holiday was originally spent worshiping a specific deity known mainly by two names. The "Horned God" or the "Sun God". The celebration was set on the Summer Solstice when this Horned God was thought to have brought longer and warmer days. This was basically celebrating a God for bringing summer.

However. When the followers of the Judaistic religions came in they took the image of the Horned God and declared it as Satan. This God of the Sun became the very first visual representation of Satan, Goat head/horns, human chest, the goat legs.

Christians and other Judaistic religions stole the holiday worshiping this god after declaring this god as Satan. You are worshiping Satan by celebrating Christmas.

Please present counter arguments and I will refute them.

Christmas is Christian because it celebrates the birth of Jesus Christ and brings light, joy, goodwill, and peace. Satan brings none of those.

 

[Grandliseur]

I am sure that a majority of us recognize the pagan origins of Christmas. But very few if anybody understands the possibly "Satanic" nature of the holiday today. I am here to present the argument that Christmas is Satanic by the Christian definition of Satanic.

The Holiday was originally spent worshiping a specific deity known mainly by two names. The "Horned God" or the "Sun God". The celebration was set on the Summer Solstice when this Horned God was thought to have brought longer and warmer days. This was basically celebrating a God for bringing summer.

However. When the followers of the Judaistic religions came in they took the image of the Horned God and declared it as Satan. This God of the Sun became the very first visual representation of Satan, Goat head/horns, human chest, the goat legs.

Christians and other Judaistic religions stole the holiday worshiping this god after declaring this god as Satan. You are worshiping Satan by celebrating Christmas.

Please present counter arguments and I will refute them.

The fact that the so-called Santa gets the glory for the good gifts given is already idolatry when then the name is seen to be very close to satan containing the same letters and not that far a pronunciation, I am sure you are right.

 

[Augustus]

Interestingly, Christmas carries the same name, Yule, as the pagan festival the Scandinavians had before Christianity.

The holidays obviously coincide and aspects of the festivities are also clearly pre-Christian in origin.

Christmas absorbed many things from pagan traditions, just not the date.

I tried googling around, and found the same being repeated in various sites, but none showed what text it was quoted from.

It's from Adversus Iudaeos apparently.

This article is quite good, also explains why Eastern Christmas is January 6.

How December 25 Became Christmas - Biblical Archaeology Society

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

by the Christian definition of Satanic.

Which definition is that?

The Holiday was originally spent worshiping a specific deity known mainly by two names. The "Horned God" or the "Sun God". The celebration was set on the Summer Solstice when this Horned God was thought to have brought longer and warmer days. This was basically celebrating a God for bringing summer.

Is there a particular reason you are using the McWiccan version of history, while avoiding the literally dozens of other pre-Christian contributions (considerable better historically supported ones, at that) to Christmas as celebrated today?

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

The fact that the so-called Santa gets the glory for the good gifts given is already idolatry when then the name is seen to be very close to satan containing the same letters and not that far a pronunciation, I am sure you are right.

In English. All those places where the popular name for St. Nicholas and the popular name for Lucifer aren't anagrams, we're cool with Christmas, I guess?

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Can anyone explain the desperate need so many people have to try to find something sinister about popular fun?

 

[Ingledsva]

I am sure that a majority of us recognize the pagan origins of Christmas. But very few if anybody understands the possibly "Satanic" nature of the holiday today. I am here to present the argument that Christmas is Satanic by the Christian definition of Satanic.

The Holiday was originally spent worshiping a specific deity known mainly by two names. The "Horned God" or the "Sun God". The celebration was set on the Summer Solstice when this Horned God was thought to have brought longer and warmer days. This was basically celebrating a God for bringing summer.

However. When the followers of the Judaistic religions came in they took the image of the Horned God and declared it as Satan. This God of the Sun became the very first visual representation of Satan, Goat head/horns, human chest, the goat legs.

Christians and other Judaistic religions stole the holiday worshiping this god after declaring this god as Satan. You are worshiping Satan by celebrating Christmas.

Please present counter arguments and I will refute them.

Yes Solstice celebrations were originally Pagan.

How does being Pagan in origin make it Satanic?

They had a Sun God, and originally had a Goddess, horned alters and apparently headdress, and at some point worshipped the horned God. A temple of Pan has been found in Israel. - Which goes with the Lilith/Inanna/Ishtar/Owl Goddess/Asherah/Isis/Anath/Queen of Heaven, found in Tanakh and other Jewish literature.

The Owl and satyr references in the Bible are very telling.

Isa 13:19 And Babylon, the glory of kingdoms, the beauty of the Chaldees' excellency, shall be as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah.

Isa 13:20 It shall never be inhabited, neither shall it be dwelt in from generation to generation: neither shall the Arabian pitch tent there; neither shall the shepherds make their fold there.

Isa 13:21 Desert dwellers shall lie there; and their houses shall be full of howlers; and owls shall dwell there, and satyrs shall dance there.

Isa 34:14 The desert dwellers shall also meet with the wild beasts of the island, and the satyr shall cry to his fellow/lover; the lı̂ylı̂yth also shall rest there, and find for herself a place of rest.

Here is a Christian site - against her - but showing they know who the Great Owl Goddess is. The Babylonian goddess Lilith

YHVH is a Sun God.

"There was a temple of Yahweh in Egypt at that time, the 6th-7th centuries BC, that was central to the Jewish community at Elephantine in which Yahweh was worshipped in conjunction with the goddess Anath (also named in the temple papyri as Anath-Bethel and Anath-Iahu" Queen of heaven (antiquity) - Wikipedia

Jer 7:17 Seest thou not what they do in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem?

Jer 7:18 The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the Queen of Heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger.

Jer 44:17 But we will certainly do whatsoever thing goeth forth out of our own mouth, to burn incense unto the Queen of Heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her, as we have done, we, and our fathers, our kings, and our princes, in the cities of Judah, and in the streets of Jerusalem: for then had we plenty of victuals, and were well, and saw no evil.

Jer 44:18 But since we left off to burn incense to the Queen of Heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her, we have wanted all things, and have been consumed by the sword and by the famine.

YHVH the Sun God in his Solar chariot surrounded by the zodiac.