Is Christmas Pagan?

[Saint Frankenstein]

It is likely the mid winter date was chosen to appease those pagans who had converted.

Things like that did happen:

"The Saga of Hákon the Good credits King Haakon I of Norway who ruled from 934 to 961 with the Christianization of Norway as well as rescheduling Yule to coincide with Christian celebrations held at the time. The saga says that when Haakon arrived in Norway he was a confirmed Christian, but since the land was still altogether heathen and the people retained their pagan practices, Haakon hid his Christianity to receive the help of the "great chieftains". In time, Haakon had a law passed establishing that Yule celebrations were to take place at the same time as the Christians celebrated Christmas, "and at that time everyone was to have ale for the celebration with a measure of grain, or else pay fines, and had to keep the holiday while the ale lasted.""

 

[metis]

Very Nordic isn't it.

You rang? Oh, you used the word "it"-- false alarm.

BTW, my reindeer has a stick shift, but ya can't believe where it's placed!

 

[URAVIP2ME]

The creation stories closely follow Mesopotamian myths but the nations that were being called "pagan" were rivals to Christianity. But Christianity actually had many pagan elements. The pagan religions had messianic savior gods who resurrected and underwent some struggle or passion and were personal saviors to members of the cult and so on. Many pagan cults told outsiders about the story and placed it on Earth but when members were initiated they were told the real story that the events happened in the celestial realm.
Many events that happened in the celestial realms were later euhemerized and put back on Earth. It's possible that this also happened with Christianity. Paul didn't seem to know any Earthly Jesus, just a vision and stories about a resurrection.
40 years later when the first gospel was written there was suddenly a complete wildly fictitious story about events on Earth.
These are all pagan elements.
First century apologist Justin Maryter already says that Jesus is not any different than all the other sons and daughters of Gods but is the "real" version. Basically confirming that back then it was obvious all of the religions in the Mediterranean were pagan.

Rather, 'so-called Christianity' had many pagan elements especially since the time of Constantine.
We were forewarned that an apostasy would set in after the end of the first century - Acts of the Apostles 20:29-30
Remember: we are also informed that genuine ' wheat' Christians would grow together with the fake 'weed/tares' Christians until the Harvest Time.
A harvest comes at the end of a growing season, Not earlier.
So, we are nearing this Harvest Time or the soon coming Time of Separation on Earth as found at Matthew 25:31-33,37.
God's promise was Not to any non-biblical peoples, but to father Abraham such as found at Genesis 12:3; Genesis 22:18
ALL families of Earth will be blessed through Abraham, and ALL nations of Earth will be blessed through Abraham.
Blessed with the benefit of ' healing ' for earth's nations as mentioned at Revelation 22:2

 

[URAVIP2ME]

So they didn't just steal the idea of using commonly available local flora for decoration, they stole the very concept of mirth and celebration from the pagans too? Bloody Christians!

Rather, Rome stole the 'concepts of Christ' and mixed that with non-biblical celebrations. Bloody Christendom ( so-called Christian but mostly in name only )
'Christendom' twisted and changed 1st-century biblical teachings until biblical faith turned into today's fraud.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

The current thinking is Jesus (if he actually lived at all) was probably born late spring, early summer, a winter birth is highly unlikely.
It is likely the mid winter date was chosen to appease those pagans who had converted.

Jesus died in the Spring Jewish month of Nisan, the 14th day at age 33 1/2
Thus Jesus would have turned 34 in the Fall or Autumn of the year.

Yes, the selected winter date was already an established festival for non-Christians.
Rome thus stole the concepts of Christ by twisting and turning them until biblical faith became today's religious fraud.

 

[ChristineM]

Rather, Rome stole the 'concepts of Christ' and mixed that with non-biblical celebrations. Bloody Christendom ( so-called Christian but mostly in name only )
'Christendom' twisted and changed 1st-century biblical teachings until biblical faith turned into today's fraud.

Before jc was born? I though jc was the one with the magic tricks


The bible was not a thing until the late 300s and i didn't think there were any original instructions on how to be christian

 

[ChristineM]

Jesus died in the Spring Jewish month of Nisan, the 14th day at age 33 1/2
Thus Jesus would have turned 34 in the Fall or Autumn of the year.

Yes, the selected winter date was already an established festival for non-Christians.
Rome thus stole the concepts of Christ by twisting and turning them until biblical faith became today's religious fraud.

Rome and other pagans had mid winter celebrations long, long before Jesus was even born so how they took christian concepts before christianity existed seems impossible to me

 

[ppp]

One could argue that Christianity was the change. Even then, it hardly justifies these petty, shallow, and unfortunately annual attempts to deprecate Christmas and Christianity.

How exactly does acknowledging that Christianity incorporates the rituals of the cultures that it encountered and conquered deprecate either Christmas or Christianity?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

the fact is, that those concepts in the galatians verse must have existed prior to them being arranged into a theological verse, or one that we find familiar. He didn't invent those words in order for him to use them. As far as 'walking by faith' goes, plenty of religions used faith as well, Christianity surely wasn't the first religion to put faith into high regard.
So in other words, there must have been people that were meek, who valued peace, or were long suffering etc. It's just that weren't doing it in the Christian context. And that point goes to @IndigoChild5559 too. Pagans had qualities that Christians expressed, because the pagans existed earlier in the theological continuum alongside those same concepts. The concepts and ways of expressing them could not have possibly been all that new, only re-formulated

Yes, ' spiritual ' qualities existed, existed since the time of Genesis.
What I meant by faith was in connection to Not using sighted things ( idols,etc.) in worship.
'Walking by faith and Not by sight ' ( sighted material things ) 2 Corinthians 5:7. keeping eyes, so to speak, on un-seen things - 2 Corinthians 4:18
Not making or using religious objects in connection to worship.

Anyone can be meek, mild humble, etc. whether Christian or not.
The difference is in connection to Jesus' teachings.
Christians are instructed to do the same spiritual work Jesus did (Luke 4:43) according to Jesus at Matthew 24:14; Acts of the Apostles 1:8
A pagan or non-Christian does Not declare the good news about God's kingdom ( thy kingdom come.....) to other people. (Daniel 2:44)
So, besides cultivating the fruitage of God's spirit (Galatians 5:22-23) a Christian obeys what Jesus said to do and teach - Matthew 28:18-20

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Rome and other pagans had mid winter celebrations long, long before Jesus was even born so how they took christian concepts before christianity existed seems impossible to me

I had in mind especially at the time of Constantine.
Sure, Rome (Roman Empire) existed first but by Rome I meant more like the Roman Church mixed in the existing non-biblical with the biblical.
Thus, helping create a mixing or a fusion of the non-biblical with the biblical.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

The bible was not a thing until the late 300s and i didn't think there were any original instructions on how to be christian

The Bible was completed by the year 100.
In the 300's is when Constantine enters into the picture and helps develop what is 'Christendom' ( so-called Christian but mostly in name only )
Christendom is the fake 'weed/tares' Christians and Not the genuine ' wheat ' Christians as found in the 1st-centruy writings / NT.

 

[ChristineM]

I had in mind especially at the time of Constantine.
Sure, Rome (Roman Empire) existed first but by Rome I meant more like the Roman Church mixed in the existing non-biblical with the biblical.
Thus, helping create a mixing or a fusion of the non-biblical with the biblical.

Considering the roman church bible is the earliest complete bible i have no idea how you can say that.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

How exactly does acknowledging that Christianity incorporates the rituals of the cultures that it encountered and conquered deprecate either Christmas or Christianity?

Acknowledge by comparison:
Compare the 1st century Bible writings with today's church traditions or church customs and find they are out of harmony with 1st century writings.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Considering the roman church bible is the earliest complete bible i have no idea how you can say that.

We have first the old Hebrew Scriptures, then the Christian 'Greek' (Not Roman) Scriptures. No Latin Bible in the first century.

 

[ChristineM]

The Bible was completed by the year 100.
In the 300's is when Constantine enters into the picture and helps develop what is 'Christendom' ( so-called Christian but mostly in name only )
Christendom is the fake 'weed/tares' Christians and Not the genuine ' wheat ' Christians as found in the 1st-centruy writings / NT.

There are no copies of the original writings, no copies of the original bible i would love to know how you reached your conclusion

Matthew 7 comes to mind here

 

[ppp]

The Bible was completed by the year 100.

A compilation of books for the NT was not even started in earnest till the 140's.

 

[metis]

We have first the old Hebrew Scriptures, then the Christian 'Greek' (Not Roman) Scriptures. No Latin Bible in the first century.

So?

 

[ChristineM]

We have first the old Hebrew Scriptures, then the Christian 'Greek' (Not Roman) Scriptures. No Latin Bible in the first century.

Not a bible then

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

A pagan has absolutely no motivation to 'rail against the dreidel,' and I am absolutely perplexed as to why that would be your expectation.. You have succeeded in completely confusing me

Absolutely unmotivated, absolutely perplexed, and completely confused ... and it's only Monday.

 

[amorphous_constellation]

Absolutely unmotivated, absolutely perplexed, and completely confused ... and it's only Monday.

yeah that's probably not a good spot to be in.. especially since I probably have to work ten nights in a row