Is consciousness nothing-in-itself?

[Straw Dog]

From a physical view, everything is "star-stuff". All matter in the universe is connected. Consider the formation of the universe...the Big Bang. It started out as a single ball of energy, but that one ball of energy contained all of the energy that exists now in the universe. It did not explode into millions of pieces, rather it expanded and to this day is still that One only much larger. The forms of matter may change and give the appearance of being separate pieces, but nothing is really separate. All matter, along with all the energy in the universe, is One.

Guess I could be wrong though...


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Guess you could be right too. The important thing is that we take personal responsibility for our chosen beliefs rather than making them compulsatory. For you, it appears to be One. For me, empty of both singular and separate essence, not one/ not many.

 

[factseeker88]

People have a tendency of thinking consciousness is some mysterious, non-physical thing that exists everywhere. Consciousness is nothing spiritual or mysterious in my opinion. It is complex chemical interactions.>>

Not me. I view all phenomena in a practical light.

My take on consciousness is awareness and memory, that we are not aware until something or someone stimulates us, gets our attention. Somewhat like an idling motor waiting to be put in gear.

Your post, for example, put me in gear, stimulated my response.

“[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]What we think, or what we know, or what we believe is, in the end, of little consequence. The only consequence is WHAT WE DO.” John Ruskin (1819 - 1900) [/FONT]

 

[Straw Dog]

People have a tendency of thinking consciousness is some mysterious, non-physical thing that exists everywhere. Consciousness is nothing spiritual or mysterious in my opinion. It is complex chemical interactions.>>

Satre never claimed that consciousness was spiritual and accepted that it required material embodiment. Not sure why people keep debating this point.

Furthermore, at some point, there was the possibility of responding differently or not at all. Complexity is mysterious.

 

[Straw Dog]

Consider an acorn. In itself, it lacks nothing as it is simply what it is. It must be judged in terms of the oak tree that is presently lacking in order to be understood as a potential oak tree. The meaning of the acorn is based on the non-being of the oak tree as that which the acorn lacks. The acorn itself does not lack the oak tree. It lacks the oak tree only for a consciousness that is capable of projecting forward in time beyond the acorn towards the not-yet-being of the oak. The acorn exists in the manner of being the non-being of the oak. As a meaningful phenomenon, the acorn is understood as what it is by virtue of what it lacks.

 

[Desert Snake]

I've come to the conclusion that philosophy is actually quite useless (edit: inadequate)...it solves nothing. Other than creating more questions and confusion than answers, what great questions regarding life, consciousness, or existence has philosophy actually solved? They just keep debating, but they don't solve anything. The problem is everyone has their own philosophy, just like religion. The answers to life's great mysteries will not be found through philosophy or spirituality, they will be discovered through science or physics. I guess that's kind of a philosophy in and of itself. I think it is good to have a sort of personal philosophy, but I wouldn't expect any great revelations out of it. The truly great revelations are being discovered through science.


Just to edit: Useless was the wrong word, my bad. Philosophy does have it's uses. Inadequate is more accurate.

Arbitrary comparison. Apples are different from oranges....well, yeah..

 

[Runewolf1973]

Arbitrary comparison. Apples are different from oranges....well, yeah..

I don't see the problem with it. Everyone sees things a little differently.

 

[Runewolf1973]

Satre never claimed that consciousness was spiritual and accepted that it required material embodiment. Not sure why people keep debating this point.

Furthermore, at some point, there was the possibility of responding differently or not at all. Complexity is mysterious.

I think factseeker88 was quoting me, but I was referring to something different, not Satre. I think I misunderstood Satre.



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[Runewolf1973]

I view all phenomena in a practical light.

My take on consciousness is awareness and memory, that we are not aware until something or someone stimulates us, gets our attention. Somewhat like an idling motor waiting to be put in gear.

Your post, for example, put me in gear, stimulated my response.

I like your practical view of consciousness. I too have my own personal take on what consciousness is or how it could be defined...

The ability to act, react, and respond to external forces or stimuli. A form of interaction.

 

[zenzero]

Friends Runewolf and Straw Dog,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Runewolf1973 View Post
From a physical view, everything is "star-stuff". All matter in the universe is connected. Consider the formation of the universe...the Big Bang. It started out as a single ball of energy, but that one ball of energy contained all of the energy that exists now in the universe. It did not explode into millions of pieces, rather it expanded and to this day is still that One only much larger. The forms of matter may change and give the appearance of being separate pieces, but nothing is really separate. All matter, along with all the energy in the universe, is One.

Guess I could be wrong though...


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Guess you could be right too. The important thing is that we take personal responsibility for our chosen beliefs rather than making them compulsatory. For you, it appears to be One. For me, empty of both singular and separate essence, not one/ not many.

Adding to it could also be said that is since 'I" exists and part of it 'IT is ONE' and since its all an illusion ITs 'NOTHINGNESS". Meaning IT's 'one/unity' or 'nothing'. ITs either or both.

Love & rgds

 

[Runewolf1973]

Friends Runewolf and Straw Dog,



Adding to it could also be said that is since 'I" exists and part of it 'IT is ONE' and since its all an illusion ITs 'NOTHINGNESS". Meaning IT's 'one/unity' or 'nothing'. ITs either or both.

Love & rgds

Agreed. There is no right or wrong save for that which we create in our minds. The snake views the world from the ground up and the bird views the world from the sky down, neither are wrong in their perspective, only different.

 

[Desert Snake]

I don't see the problem with it. Everyone sees things a little differently.

I didn't say it was problematic.

 

[Runewolf1973]

I didn't say it was problematic.

Haha, ok. Another misunderstanding on my part.

 

[Straw Dog]

The ability to act, react, and respond to external forces or stimuli. A form of interaction.

What about internal processes? What about 'future' possibilities opening up within situations? It is a form of physical interaction and relationship with the environment. Just add the elements of temporal (past/present/future) transcendence and choice. It'll start to sink in, eventually.

 

[Runewolf1973]

What about internal processes? What about 'future' possibilities opening up within situations? It is a form of physical interaction and relationship with the environment. Just add the elements of temporal (past/present/future) transcendence and choice. It'll start to sink in, eventually.

This form of interaction I believe developed as an evolutionary construct to help us adapt to our ever changing environment. The more we remember the past, the more we can plan ahead for the future and avoid possible dangers. I may be misunderstanding you though..

 

[Straw Dog]

This form of interaction I believe developed as an evolutionary construct to help us adapt to our ever changing environment. The more we remember the past, the more we can plan ahead for the future and avoid possible dangers. I may be misunderstanding you though..

It may be an evolutionary construct, but has it been fully developed yet? There are processes of becoming, but when does time enter into the picture? Does time exist apart from consciousness?

Consciousness escapes basic mechanical cause-and-effect in its flight towards the future. There are possibilities for avoiding danger, for causing danger, and a wide range of other possibilities that don't even deal with danger. This opening up of possibilities is what makes consciousness necessarily free and accountable.

This means that we are essentially free to choose and responsible for our actions. To claim that all personal actions are directly and specifically caused by external forces is a choice to be casually determined by past external events. Every cause has many effects and every past-future opens up many new future-past possibilities. Our freedom exists within the future at which we aim now.

 

[Desert Snake]

Haha, ok. Another misunderstanding on my part.

Lol, it also wasn't just a 'blank' statemen't. You seem difficult to converse with..

adios

 

[Bunyip]

It may be an evolutionary construct, but has it been fully developed yet? There are processes of becoming, but when does time enter into the picture? Does time exist apart from consciousness?

Consciousness escapes basic mechanical cause-and-effect in its flight towards the future. There are possibilities for avoiding danger, for causing danger, and a wide range of other possibilities that don't even deal with danger. This opening up of possibilities is what makes consciousness necessarily free and accountable.

This means that we are essentially free to choose and responsible for our actions. To claim that all personal actions are directly and specifically caused by external forces is a choice to be casually determined by past external events. Every cause has many effects and every past-future opens up many new future-past possibilities. Our freedom exists within the future at which we aim now.

Consciousness doesn't escape cause and effect - it is a product of the physical brain. Consciousness is temporal, it is a product of physical interactions over time.

 

[Runewolf1973]

Lol, it also wasn't just a 'blank' statemen't. You seem difficult to converse with..

adios

At times, yes.

 

[zenzero]

Friend Runewolf,

This form of interaction I believe developed as an evolutionary construct to help us adapt to our ever changing environment. The more we remember the past, the more we can plan ahead for the future and avoid possible dangers. I may be misunderstanding you though..

What have understood is that so far rebirth was taken to be on similar lines but Gautama looks at it differently [possibly in this concept the past and future is taken into consideration but not the present] Gautama to my understanding is stating that one dies and something new is born There is a gap the present state which is always fresh, new.

Maybe have not understood properly. Like those who are familiar with Gautama's teachings like friend crossfire could enlighten us on the subject.

Love & rgds

 

[Runewolf1973]

It may be an evolutionary construct, but has it been fully developed yet? There are processes of becoming, but when does time enter into the picture? Does time exist apart from consciousness?

Consciousness escapes basic mechanical cause-and-effect in its flight towards the future. There are possibilities for avoiding danger, for causing danger, and a wide range of other possibilities that don't even deal with danger. This opening up of possibilities is what makes consciousness necessarily free and accountable.

This means that we are essentially free to choose and responsible for our actions. To claim that all personal actions are directly and specifically caused by external forces is a choice to be casually determined by past external events. Every cause has many effects and every past-future opens up many new future-past possibilities. Our freedom exists within the future at which we aim now.

I have a very simplistic view. Everything is just matter changing form, therefore although there are many possibilities -- past, present, future -- none of them extend beyond the physical realm of action/reaction or cause and effect. We are bound to the physical no matter what, even if our own consciousness makes it seem otherwise.