Is Creating Life a Moral Carte Blanche?

[firedragon]

Does that reasoning hold water? If I create a life, is it morally acceptable for me to do whatever I please with that life? Kill it, torture it, starve it, punish it for no good reason?

See, if you create something, and you are God as understood by you yourself, you can logically do what ever you please with it. But you have created a new pleasure and imposed it upon God which is your own creation.

You have created your own caricature of God and you have done what you please with it. Your caricature of God is a murderous monster who does his atrocities "for no good reason".

So your question is loaded.

 

[Shakeel]

Again, why does creating a life from nothing change what is morally permissible to do to that life, or make literally anything done to that life permissible? What's the logic?

Morality implies a set of rules or guidelines by which one determines what one ought or ought not do. If anything is morally permissible, one doesn't meaningfully have a morality. At best such a being would be amoral.

Again, you're comparing man to God. God is not tied by our laws or our logic. Also God never does injustice to anyone.

 

[Shakeel]

So we can only pretend to do things? We can't actually do them or even think or imagine without god? We can't put 1 and 1 together and figure things out according to accumulated knowledge? I'm confused by what you mean exactly by this, because it seems to go against what is so obviously observable in the world, so I assume I'm just misunderstanding what you mean...

Maybe you can clarify this?

We wouldn't exist without God. It is by God's permission that you're breathing right now. Yet, we have a free will.

 

[Left Coast]

See, if you create something, and you are God as understood by you yourself, you can logically do what ever you please with it.

But can you do so and meaningfully regard yourself as moral? That's the question.

You have created your own caricature of God and you have done what you please with it. Your caricature of God is a murderous monster who does his atrocities "for no good reason".

So your question is loaded.

Since your answer to my question appears to be "yes," I don't see how I've created a caricature. You are literally defending the idea that creating life gives you the prerogative to do anything at all to it, no matter how awful. If you're not doing that, I await your clarification.

 

[Left Coast]

Again, you're comparing man to God. God is not tied by our laws or our logic.

And again, you're not answering the actual question I asked.

Also God never does injustice to anyone.

Is that because anything God does is definitionally just, because he created us? So even if he tortures us, murders us, or otherwise treats us horribly, it's "just?" Or are there things God cannot do to us because they would be unjust?

 

[firedragon]

Since your answer to my question appears to be "yes," I don't see how I've created a caricature. You are literally defending the idea that creating something gives you the prerogative to do anything at all to it, no matter how awful. If you're not doing that, I await your clarification.

Your question is loaded. You have not understood what I said or is ignoring it.

Why should it be "awful", monstrous, murder for "no reason"? Thats what you said in your OP!

Thats creating a caricature of your own making. Its your own creation you have done and you did what you please with your own creation of a monster who does dirty things "for no reason".

So that's a loaded question.

 

[SigurdReginson]

We wouldn't exist without God. It is by God's permission that you're breathing right now. Yet, we have a free will.

I'm talking about thought, though. Does god influence our thoughts?

 

[Left Coast]

Your question is loaded. You have not understood what I said or is ignoring it.

Why should it be "awful", monstrous, murder for "no reason"? Thats what you said in your OP!

Thats creating a caricature of your own making. Its your own creation you have done and you did what you please with your own creation of a monster who does dirty things "for no reason".

So that's a loaded question.

What I asked in my OP is IF someone creates life, are they morally permitted to do anything they want to it, even things that are awful? That's not an accusation. It's a question.

If the answer to the question is "no," that should be a pretty simple way to wrap this up, right?

 

[viole]

Non-believers often object to things allegedly done by gods, particularly the Abrahamic God as that's the dominant view of God these days. Theists then reply that God may do whatever they please in regard to their creation because they created it.

Does that reasoning hold water? If I create a life, is it morally acceptable for me to do whatever I please with that life? Kill it, torture it, starve it, punish it for no good reason?

In my view it isn't acceptable, if morality is to be a meaningful concept. A moral creator would recognize that there are things one cannot do to the life they've created if one wants to be considered moral.

Agree? Disagree? Share your thoughts.

I completely agree. Creating morally relevant beings does not grant any right to terminate them, or make them suffer, at will. It is actually monstrous, just to think about it.

Probably, Christians would agree too, but they are stuck with that God of theirs Who orders the indiscriminate killing of women and children, including the command to rip apart pregnant women with a sword, in what they need to call the "good" book.

Ciao

- viole

 

[Shakeel]

And again, you're not answering the actual question I asked.

Because your premise is false.

Is that because anything God does is definitionally just, because he created us

No. Being just is just one of His characteristics.

Or are there things God cannot do to us because they would be unjust?

He says that he is always just.

 

[firedragon]

What I asked in my OP is IF someone creates life, are they morally permitted to do anything they want to it, even things that are awful? That's not an accusation. It's a question.

If the answer to the question is "no," that should be a pretty simple way to wrap this up, right?

See. By principle, God is not to be "permitted". By definition. Because God is the ultimate authority. The question is to a man, not God.

I am not saying you accused God of being a monster who does injustice, I am saying that this is the idea of this God character you have imposed upon your question. Its a logical fallacy.

A human being who lets say bears a child is NOT permitted to kill the child for no apparent reason. This kind of human moral problem cannot be imposed upon God unless you impose the same human moral issues you have upon God who is transcended.

 

[Left Coast]

Because your premise is false.

No. Being just is just one of His characteristics.

He says that he is always just.

So what does that mean? It sounds like you believe that anything God does, even if it's murder, torture, or anything else we'd consider otherwise morally horrible, are "just" if God does it. Is that correct?

If it's not correct, then that must mean that there are things God cannot do to us and still call himself just. Right?

 

[Left Coast]

See. By principle, God is not to be "permitted". By definition. Because God is the ultimate authority. The question is to a man, not God.

I am not saying you accused God of being a monster who does injustice, I am saying that this is the idea of this God character you have imposed upon your question. Its a logical fallacy.

A human being who lets say bears a child is NOT permitted to kill the child for no apparent reason. This kind of human moral problem cannot be imposed upon God unless you impose the same human moral issues you have upon God who is transcended.

And why can't that moral problem be imposed on God? It sounds as though you are saying God is somehow exempted from all moral questions. So again, this indicates that at most your God is amoral, completely without a morality.

If that's not the case, then for statements like, "God is morally perfect" to have coherent meaning, there must be things that God could not do to us.

 

[firedragon]

And why can't that moral problem be imposed on God?

Because its logically fallacious.

 

[Left Coast]

Because its logically fallacious.

I don't see how. If you believe God is moral or just or any other adjective with a moral overtone, then moral situations apply to them. If God is exempted from all moral questions, then they're amoral, not good or just or moral.

 

[firedragon]

I don't see how.

Because its a fundamental problem. God is fundamentally not human.

 

[SigurdReginson]

Because its a fundamental problem. God is fundamentally not human.

Does the Quran say that god's actions are above judgement because he's not human? Where does this conclusion come from?

 

[Left Coast]

Because its a fundamental problem. God is fundamentally not human.

Sure. So again, by this logic they're amoral, not good or just or morally perfect.

 

[firedragon]

Does the Quran say that god's actions are above judgement because he's not human? Where does this conclusion come from?

If you want top discuss the Quran, its not relevant. But everyone is being irrelevant these days. I was not talking of God concepts of the Quran.

Surah Ihlas.

 

[firedragon]

Sure. So again, by this logic they're amoral, not good or just or morally perfect.

No. Just, transcended.