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Is Deism really a religion?

lilithu

The Devil's Advocate
I don't mean any disrespect to deists - honestly, I am fine with many different views of deity including deism. But I don't understand why deism is listed as a religion. By my understanding, religions have shared beliefs and practices, such as Judaism, Christianity, Hinduism, Taoism... In contrast, deism strikes me more as a theological position on the nature of God/gods, on par with theism, pantheism, panentheism, polytheism, henotheism, atheism, etc. These are not in and of themselves religions but rather ways of viewing God. So, for example, I know both theistic Jews and atheistic Jews. I know theistic Christians and deistic Christians (and even a couple of atheistic Christians). I know polytheistic Hindus and monotheistic Hindus. And I myself am a panentheistic UU. But panentheism is not my religion. The panentheistic view of God is shared by people across many different religions. And I don't gather specifically with other panentheists in order to worship in a panentheistic way; rather, I gather with fellow Unitarian Universalists and sing hymns from our hymnal and light our chalice, which is a shared symbol for all UUs, etc. Religions have shared traditions and symbols and stories... As far as I know, and I am open to correction, deism does not.

Even in this umbrella forum, "Theological Concepts," deism is listed along with theism, non-theism and monism.

So... is deism really a religion? Or is it a theological concept?
 

Me Myself

Back to my username
I never saw it as one. As Heathen said, I generally need some tenets or scriptures or something to call it a "religion"
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
Lilithu:- Hi! Please..... now there are two you on this thread:- You wrote:-
And I myself am a panentheistic UU

Please tell me what UU stands for. I'm sorry that this is a slight diversion, but I just want to know......
 

HonestJoe

Well-Known Member
So my question really is: Why is there a deism DIR?

There are DIRs for several things that aren't actually religions. DIR isn't a proscriptive term, more a general identifier of the type of sub forum (and more significantly, the additional rules that implies). It could be argued that the Deism DIR is in the wrong section but if it shouldn't have a DIR, lots of other things shouldn't either. I'm not sure it's really that important in the grand scheme of things.
 

lilithu

The Devil's Advocate
For the same reason there is Theism, Atheism, Agnostic, Humanism, Taoism, etc. DIR's.
Not necessarily "Religions" in themselves, but belief systems and philosophies.;)
There isn't a theism DIR. (Nor is there a polytheism DIR nor a pantheism DIR...) And Taoism is a religion - it has shared beliefs, traditions, rituals, deities, stories...

Deism, like theism, atheism and humanism are not belief systems nor philosophies. They are just a single belief about the nature of God/gods.

Classical Theism - God exists and intervenes with creation
Deism - God exists but does not intervene
Atheism - God does not exist
Humanism - Let's focus on humans instead of this "god" thing.

But there is no further belief system that defines these categories.



I'm not sure it's really that important in the grand scheme of things.
Of course not. But most discussions aren't important in the grand scheme of things. As a former scientist, I like categorizations to be logically consistent.

I get what you're saying about other DIRs not being religions either, but Atheism and Agnosticism are listed under "Non-Religious Beliefs" so at least there is the recognition that they are not religions. Whereas Deism is listed under "Non-Revealed Religions" along with Taoism and Confucianism, even tho Deism has no connection with the them whereas Taoism and Confucianism are clearly historically and culturally connected.

Plus, Deism is the only one that is listed under both "Theological Concepts" and the DIRs.
 
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Storm

ThrUU the Looking Glass
How about Magic?

Is there a point to this question? RF has always had DIRs that weren't for specific religions, and you never had a problem with it before. So, why now, and why pick on deism?
 

lilithu

The Devil's Advocate
How about Magic?

Is there a point to this question? RF has always had DIRs that weren't for specific religions, and you never had a problem with it before. So, why now, and why pick on deism?
I'm not "picking on" Deism. As a theological position on the nature of God, it objectively speaking as good as any other. I think it's miscategorized as a religion, which leads people to believe that it is a religion. It already has a forum under "Theological Concepts."
 

loverOfTruth

Well-Known Member
I don't mean any disrespect to deists - honestly, I am fine with many different views of deity including deism. But I don't understand why deism is listed as a religion. By my understanding, religions have shared beliefs and practices, such as Judaism, Christianity, Hinduism, Taoism... In contrast, deism strikes me more as a theological position on the nature of God/gods, on par with theism, pantheism, panentheism, polytheism, henotheism, atheism, etc. These are not in and of themselves religions but rather ways of viewing God. So, for example, I know both theistic Jews and atheistic Jews. I know theistic Christians and deistic Christians (and even a couple of atheistic Christians). I know polytheistic Hindus and monotheistic Hindus. And I myself am a panentheistic UU. But panentheism is not my religion. The panentheistic view of God is shared by people across many different religions. And I don't gather specifically with other panentheists in order to worship in a panentheistic way; rather, I gather with fellow Unitarian Universalists and sing hymns from our hymnal and light our chalice, which is a shared symbol for all UUs, etc. Religions have shared traditions and symbols and stories... As far as I know, and I am open to correction, deism does not.

Even in this umbrella forum, "Theological Concepts," deism is listed along with theism, non-theism and monism.

So... is deism really a religion? Or is it a theological concept?

Hi there...I am just curious as to why you left off one of the world's major religions, 'Islam', from the list of religions you have mentioned above.

Did you just miss that somehow ? - It is possible, no problem with that.
Or do you not consider it to be a major religion ? - if so, we can discuss about it later.
Or is it that you do not know anything about it ? - I will be shocked to hear that.

I sincerely do not mean any offense at all. But it just caught my attention and so I thought I would ask.
 

Storm

ThrUU the Looking Glass
I'm not "picking on" Deism. As a theological position on the nature of God, it objectively speaking as good as any other. I think it's miscategorized as a religion, which leads people to believe that it is a religion. It already has a forum under "Theological Concepts."
That's closer to being a religion than "magic." Also "Non-theism" also gets a Concepts subforum and a DIR.

Why does it matter?
 

Storm

ThrUU the Looking Glass
Hi there...I am just curious as to why you left off one of the world's major religions, 'Islam', from the list of religions you have mentioned above.

Did you just miss that somehow ? - It is possible, no problem with that.
Or do you not consider it to be a major religion ? - if so, we can discuss about it later.
Or is it that you do not know anything about it ? - I will be shocked to hear that.

I sincerely do not mean any offense at all. But it just caught my attention and so I thought I would ask.
Or, she felt she had enough examples?

Why are people reading so much into things?
 

Storm

ThrUU the Looking Glass
That would be perfectly alright but can't help but notice these things given there is so much ignorance around.
Well, your concerns are quite misplaced in this regard. Lilithu and I butt heads often as not, but she's a far cry from ignorant. :)
 

tumbleweed41

Resident Liberal Hippie
There isn't a theism DIR. (Nor is there a polytheism DIR nor a pantheism DIR...) And Taoism is a religion - it has shared beliefs, traditions, rituals, deities, stories...
My mistake, we do not have a Theism DIR, however we are looking into a Polytheism DIR.
Taoism is incorporated into Confucianism and Zen Buddhism.

Deism, like theism, atheism and humanism are not belief systems nor philosophies. They are just a single belief about the nature of God/gods.
OK

Classical Theism - God exists and intervenes with creation
Deism - God exists but does not intervene
Atheism - God does not exist
Humanism - Let's focus on humans instead of this "god" thing.

But there is no further belief system that defines these categories.
Sure there is.
In Deism, for example, we have Classical Deism, Modern Deism, Christian Deism...;)
However, the one thing those three you mentioned have in common is lack of dogma. Without dogma, structural religion cannot stand.
 
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