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Is Deism really a religion?

lilithu

The Devil's Advocate
My mistake, we do not have a Theism DIR, however we are looking into a Polytheism DIR.
I think polytheism should be under "theological concepts" for the same reasons I gave for deism. However, if you do decide to create a polytheism DIR, then deism will no longer be the only outlier, and I'll just give up. :D

Sure there is.
In Deism, for example, we have Classical Deism, Modern Deism, Christian Deism...;)
However, the one thing those three you mentioned have in common is lack of dogma. Without dogma, structural religion cannot stand.
By "belief system" I mean what you call dogma. But not just dogma, also shared holidays, traditions, practices....

Yes, there are Christian deists, just as there are Christian theists, Christian panentheists, Christian pantheists, and believe it or not I even know a few Christian atheists. :)
 
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lilithu

The Devil's Advocate
Hi there...I am just curious as to why you left off one of the world's major religions, 'Islam', from the list of religions you have mentioned above.

Or, she felt she had enough examples?
Thank you. :yes:

loverOfTruth, if I tried to list all of the religions of which I am aware, we all would have forgotten what the topic was by the time I get to the end. I was just giving a few examples.

That's closer to being a religion than "magic." Also "Non-theism" also gets a Concepts subforum and a DIR.

Why does it matter?
"Non-theistic beliefs" is a category for the DIRs within it (Atheism, Agnosticism, Humanism), so it's there as a descriptor, not a religion.

I haven't looked in the "Magic" DIR but if it's referring to Ceremonial Magick, that actually has shared beliefs and rituals and even organizational structure. (I used to practice Ceremonial Magick; for my temperament, I liked it better than Wicca or Neo-Paganism.) So I would argue that "Magic" can be considered a religion. (Obviously, if it's referring to illusion tricks, then no.)

As for why it matters *to me*, as I wrote before, I like for categorizations to make sense, and to be as parsimonious as possible. Since religion is messy it's not always going to be easy to decide where something goes, but *to me* deism is quite obviously not a religion, but rather a theological concept. It's on the same level as panentheism (which we share in addition to our UUism) and panentheism is not a DIR.

Oh, and to answer your earlier question, there is precedence for me critiquing RF categorizations. (I didn't just wake up and decide to "pick on" deism.) It may have been before your time here but UUism used to be listed under something like "New Religions" (It was a long time ago so I'm not sure of the exact name), along with Scientology and (I think) Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormonism. I objected to that and, along with other RFs, pushed for it to be to listed under a newly created "Syncretic religions" category. :D
 
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Storm

ThrUU the Looking Glass
That was before my time yes.

No the Magic DIR is not any path-specific. It's just magic.

Critiquing organization I can understand, but only to a point. Seems to me that the more diverse the DIRs, the better. If we're going to start eliminating, shouldn't Amish be first to go?
 

lilithu

The Devil's Advocate
Critiquing organization I can understand, but only to a point. Seems to me that the more diverse the DIRs, the better. If we're going to start eliminating, shouldn't Amish be first to go?
But the Amish are a real religion, whereas deism is not. Pretty much everyone who has responded to my question has agreed that deism is not. And like I said, it already has a forum listed under "Theological Concepts." Actually, it would be really cool if under "Theological Concepts" there were:
Theism
Non-theism
Monism
Deism
Polytheism
Pantheism
Panentheism
:hearts:


While I'm critiquing organization, Confucianism and Taoism should be moved to "Asian Religions DIR." They are after all indigenous Asian religions. The category of "non-revealed religions" just doesn't make sense. That's like making a category called "Non-Dharmic Religions" and putting Christianity in there. Wherever possible, religions should be labeled under their own terms, not labeled as "Non-" (ie - failing to meet the standards of someone else's terms).

But this is all I'm going to say about organization, unless someone has clarifying questions. So if you don't like my suggestions, you can just ignore them and the thread will die. :p
 

Storm

ThrUU the Looking Glass
But the Amish are a real religion, whereas deism is not.
Yeah, but they're a real religion that shuns modern technology, meaning they're not online. So, if we've got a DIR that's totally freaking pointless, that would be it.
 

lilithu

The Devil's Advocate
Yeah, but they're a real religion that shuns modern technology, meaning they're not online. So, if we've got a DIR that's totally freaking pointless, that would be it.
Ah, gotcha. And judging by the number of posts there I would agree. :D (I didn't even know RF had an Amish DIR.)
 

lilithu

The Devil's Advocate
Because it's still relevant to the subject of religion and is still worthy of discussion, obviously.
I wasn't asking for it to be removed from the discussion of religion. I was asking why it was a DIR. As I've pointed out, it has a forum under "Theological Concepts." It's the only one that is listed under both "Theological Concepts" and as a religion under the DIRs.
 

Reverend Rick

Frubal Whore
Premium Member
I think it is more about giving everyone a sanctuary than it is correctly defining any certain group. Atheism is not a religion but yet it is in Discuss Individual Religions as well.

Agnostics cannot agree on much of anything as I found out when I started a thread about them. Yet, they have a forum that follows no dogma. The only requirement I can see is calling yourself an Agnostic to be part of this forum.

We have to put these forums somewhere and I guess it is better to have them than it is to not.
 

CDWolfe

Progressive Deist
Theism: the belief in God, and His activity within the universe. God answers prayers, performs miracles, speaks to people, etc. Can leave you questioning things like "why does a loving, caring God allow bad things to happen to good people."

Deism: the belief in God, and His non-activity in the universe. God does not really involve Himself after He created everything including the laws of nature, free will, etc. Can answer many questions that others can't, such as "bad things happen to good people, because someone else made a free will choice to do something bad."

The rest is pretty much irrelevant.
 

HonestJoe

Well-Known Member
Not really. I'd say deism conceptually falls closer to theism/atheism than religion. They're what you believe. Religion is what you do about it.
 
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