Is demonic possession real ?

[paarsurrey]

I'm just sharing what happened to me personally. It was really weird, I'll tell you that much. And I have a mentally ill brother and had a mentally ill mother.

Thanks for sharing, may G-d bless you all.

Regards

 

[Kathryn]

Thanks for sharing, may G-d bless you all.

Regards

Thank you!

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

If I take a hallucinogenic drug and have a conversation with God, does the fact that I took a drug to achieve this experience mean that I did not converse with God?

I'ld say that the fact of the hallucinogenic drug taking makes it incredibly more likely and probable that you were hallucinating instead.

It's like seeing pink elephants marching out of your fridge after taking a bunch of LSD. Does that mean there weren't actually pink elephants marching out of your fridge? Would you seriously ponder the possibility that it wasn't a hallucination?

 

[PureX]

I'ld say that the fact of the hallucinogenic drug taking makes it incredibly more likely and probable that you were hallucinating instead.

But your saying it doesn't mean a thing since you have no evidence to support that claim at all.

It's like seeing pink elephants marching out of your fridge after taking a bunch of LSD. Does that mean there weren't actually pink elephants marching out of your fridge? Would you seriously ponder the possibility that it wasn't a hallucination?

But the reason you had to switch to a different scenario was because you couldn't present a good argument for the scenario under discussion. We aren't talking about seeing pink elephants. The fact that one person sees a pink elephant while under the influence of a drug does not mean that he or another person could not have conversed with God under the influence of that same drug. Nor is there any likelihood to be logically drawn.

Any critical thinker would understand this in a heartbeat.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

But your saying it doesn't mean a thing since you have no evidence to support that claim at all.

I don't need any experience to conclude that having mere hallucinations after taking hallucinogenic drugs is incredibly more likely then actually having had a conversation with an otherwise undetectable supernatural entity...

Just like I don't need any experience to conclude that it's more then likely a hallucination when you see pink elephants march out of your fridge after taking a bunch of LSD as opposed to the idea that pink elephants actually marched out of your fridge.

But the reason you had to switch to a different scenario was because you couldn't present a good argument for the scenario under discussion.

It's not actually a different scenario.
It's the exact same scenario. It's taking hallucinogenic drugs and then having extra-ordinary experience that very much fit within the bounds of hallucinations...

Why would you assume it to be anything else then hallucination?

We aren't talking about seeing pink elephants.

Instead we are talking about having conversation with beings that are equally indistinguishable from imaginary.

The fact that one person sees a pink elephant while under the influence of a drug does not mean that he or another person could not have conversed with God under the influence of that same drug. Nor is there any likelihood to be logically drawn.

Any critical thinker would understand this in a heartbeat.

Any critical thinker would consider both to be hallucinations and wouldn't for a second consider either one actually happened.

In fact, I'ld go so far as to say that once under the influence of such drugs, ALL experiences become suspect. Not just the extra-ordinary ones.
If you "experience" receiving a phone call of your mom asking to you to come by the day after and pick up some banana's on your way there, even that experience would be suspect.

The thing about hallucinogenics, is that you lose touch with actual reality. You literally can't trust anything anymore at that point. Not even the seemingly mundane. Let alone the extra-ordinary.

 

[PureX]

I don't need any experience to conclude that having mere hallucinations after taking hallucinogenic drugs is incredibly more likely then actually having had a conversation with an otherwise undetectable supernatural entity...

Of course you don't. You're a 'true believer' in your own bias. Why would your certitude require any evidence? Why would you ever even question it? Being such a "critical thinker" an all.

Why would you assume it to be anything else then hallucination?

Because I can't claim to know things that I don't know to be so.

Instead we are talking about having conversation with beings that are equally indistinguishable from imaginary.

To us, yes. The sad thing is that you are completely oblivious of the logical possibilities in that.

Any critical thinker would consider both to be hallucinations and wouldn't for a second consider either one actually happened.

So you have no idea, then, what critical thought is.

In fact, I'ld go so far as to say that once under the influence of such drugs, ALL experiences become suspect. Not just the extra-ordinary ones.
If you "experience" receiving a phone call of your mom asking to you to come by the day after and pick up some banana's on your way there, even that experience would be suspect.

The fact that these become "suspect" should be alerting you to the many open possibilities.

The thing about hallucinogenics, is that you lose touch with actual reality.

Well, you don't actually know that to be so. They could be opening up your mind to perceive aspects of reality that are otherwise closed off to you.

You literally can't trust anything anymore at that point. Not even the seemingly mundane. Let alone the extra-ordinary.

What does trust have to do with it?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Of course you don't. You're a 'true believer' in your own bias. Why would your certitude require any evidence? Why would you ever even question it? Being such a "critical thinker" an all.

Right, right.... I'm a "true believer in my bias" when I say that having extra-ordinary experiences (like having conversations with supernatural beings) while high on hallunicogenic drugs, is more likely a hallucination caused by the drugs then one actually having had that conversation.

Uhu.

Because I can't claim to know things that I don't know to be so.

But you CAN draw logical conclusions based on the data available, yes?

How likely is it to have conversations (in ANY state) with otherwise undetectable supernatural beings?
How likely is it to have a hallucination while high on hallucinogenics?



When having extra-ordinary "supernatural" experiences while high on hallucinogenics, how likely is it that those experiences are a direct result of the drugs and thus a hallucination?

Even without such drugs, the first most likely answer of having such "conversations" is hallucination in context of things like psychosis etc. Hearing voices. Schizofrenia.

Your argument is ridiculous. It's not even an argument.

I posit that whenever ANYONE makes ANY claim about having had an extra-ordinary "supernatural", "magical" or "crazy" experience while also saying he was high on LSD at the time, you would in fact INSTANTLY assume he was hallucinating from the LSD.

Not for a second would you seriously ponder the possibility that what he claims to have experienced would have actually occurred.

So tbh, I don't think you are being truthful here.

No, you can't be "certain". Sure. Nonetheless, you would assume hallucination unless there is additional independently verifiable evidence supporting / demonstrating otherwise.

So you have no idea, then, what critical thought is.

Right, right.... because it is "critical thought" to assume that extra-ordinary magical experiences while high on LSD, actually occurred.

Well, you don't actually know that to be so. They could be opening up your mind to perceive aspects of reality that are otherwise closed off to you.

There is zero reason to think they do and MUCH reason to think they do the opposite.
Just about every case ever known of people getting high on LSD, as a matter of fact.

What does trust have to do with it?

That you even have to ask....

Hallucinogenic causes HALLUCINATIONS. It's what they do.
This means you can't trust your senses anymore. The things you hear, see, smell, feel,... Every experience becomes suspect and potentially hallucinatory.
Hence, you can no longer trust your senses. Which actually aren't that trustworthy to start with.

 

[GardenLady]

Secularism believes that people are evil because of psychological reasons.

I'm going to dispute this statement on two grounds. First, many people, both secular and religious, believe, based on evidence, that much destructive behavior results from environmental (family/society) or biological (psychopathology) sources--this may include sequelae of abuse or other dynamic, and genetic or congenital brain or biochemical malformations. Second, I think "evil" is the wrong word for much destructive or aberrant behavior. Not that evil doesn't exist--I believe it does. But a lot of negative behavior is not intentionally evil but pathological.