Is Erotic Pole Dancing Immoral?

[Buttercup]

because it's victimless. the drug transaction you mentioned has a victim because drugs can, and do, mess up peoples heads.

Some people get addicted to porn. :sorry1:

 

[Mike182]

Some people get addicted to porn. :sorry1:

does addiction necessitate harm?

 

[Buttercup]

does addiction necessitate harm?

It can if you're married to a person who doesn't want you looking at that stuff all the time. I guess it harms in a relational way more than a physical way like drugs do.

 

[Mathematician]

Well, to be fair people can get addicted to just about anything. I read a case of someone constantly eating just so he could experience the thrills of going to the bathroom. :areyoucra If I can find a link of the story I'll post it.

 

[Mike182]

It can if you're married to a person who doesn't want you looking at that stuff all the time. I guess it harms in a relational way more than a physical way like drugs do.

so porn in this instance is wrong because of the situation?

if that is the case, porn in itself is not wrong, yes?

and if that is the case, the person making the porn is not in the wrong, yes?

 

[Sunstone]

practically, how would someone show their appreciation of the pole dancer as a means in themselves, while still using them as a means to an end?

Perhaps I could illustrate that with an event that happened one night I was in a club. A dancer sat down at my table and began chatting with me about her goals and ambitions. It's not unusual for dancers to sit down to chat, but it's fairly unusual for them to open up like she did about what they want to do with their life. I got the feeling she needed to talk with someone, so I gave her the same attention I would give a friend. In that manner I was treating her as an end in herself. Conversely, had I become impatient with her talking about herself and demanded a lap dance, or used the time she was sitting at my table to oogle her while ignoring what she was saying, then I would have been treating her only as a means to an end.

Does this help?

 

[Buttercup]

Does this help?

Yes, definitely. It's always important to treat any person with respect and care no matter who they are.

 

[Buttercup]

so porn in this instance is wrong because of the situation?

if that is the case, porn in itself is not wrong, yes?

and if that is the case, the person making the porn is not in the wrong, yes?

Yes to the first and no to the next two questions. At least in my opinion and if consenting adults are viewing it.

 

[Mike182]

Does this help?

yes. i agree that it is wrong to treat people in the opposite to your example. so we're talking about how people recieve the person performing the act, and not the act itself?

 

[Mike182]

Yes to the first and no to the next two questions. At least in my opinion and if consenting adults are viewing it.

ok, so would you agree that the concept of porn is not at fault in your example, but porn under the restrictions of age and consent?

 

[Buttercup]

ok, so would you agree that the concept of porn is not at fault in your example, but porn under the restrictions of age and consent?

The porn itself is not the problem. More the situation. Just like alcohol. I don't have a problem with over drinking. Some people do. The same can be said for porn. Some people enjoy it in moderation just like drinking and it does no harm to themselves or others. If you are married, it would be wise to ask your partner their thoughts about viewing it when they aren't home or whatever. And yes, of course we don't want kids accessing porn although it's very easy to do on the internet much to my dismay.

 

[Sunstone]

yes. i agree that it is wrong to treat people in the opposite to your example. so we're talking about how people recieve the person performing the act, and not the act itself?

Precisely! The act itself is morally neutral, isn't it? What, if anything, is intrinsically wrong about dancing erotically? So, the morality or immorality of the situation depends on how people respond to it, yes?

 

[Mike182]

The porn itself is not the problem. More the situation. Just like alcohol. I don't have a problem with over drinking. Some people do. The same can be said for porn. Some people enjoy it in moderation just like drinking and it does no harm to themselves or others. If you are married, it would be wise to ask your partner their thoughts about viewing it when they aren't home or whatever. And yes, of course we don't want kids accessing porn although it's very easy to do on the internet much to my dismay.

agreed.

sorry, i don't think i'm being very clear at 3 in the morning. i'm trying to say that it is not immoral of the person to brewe the alcohol, or make the porn, or dance on the pole.

 

[Mike182]

Precisely! The act itself is morally neutral, isn't it? So, the morality or immorality of the situation depends on how people respond to it, yes?

i feel like a fool, i've been confrontationally trying to argue the exact same point you are arguing for

 

[Sunstone]

i feel like a fool, i've been confrontationally trying to argue the exact same point you are arguing for

It's even worse than that: You were winning!

 

[Booko]

Poles should never dance erotically. The last time the ones outside our house did it, the power lines went down. They had a severe scolding after that!

I'll remember to tell my husband he has to give up the erotic dancing.

Poles definitely should not dance. They're very bad at it. They should leave dancing to the Bosnians. :yes:

 

[Sunstone]

So, Mike, how would you respond to someone who argued the act of pole dancing was intrinsically immoral on the grounds that it promoted lust in the customers and greed in the dancers?

 

[Mike182]

So, Mike, how would you respond to someone who argued the act of pole dancing was intrinsically immoral on the grounds that it promoted lust in the customers and greed in the dancers?

i would ask "on what grounds are lust and greed immoral?"

or rather, "to what extent are lust and greed immoral? because to an extent, we are all lustufl and greedy."

Edit: that, or i'd sneak off to bed, wrap up in the duvet, and act like i couldn't hear them

 

[Sunstone]

Edit: that, or i'd sneak off to bed, wrap up in the duvet, and act like i couldn't hear them

I quite frequently resort to the very same stratagem. Especially, when dealing with Feathers.

 

[Ozzie]

If I could substitute myself for the pole, I could very easily imagine myself acting immorally. But then, I am much more than just a pole. And I would have to insist on drawing the curtains in order to avoid accusations of immoral behaviour which would ruin everyone elses night.