Is every word in the Quran from Allah?

[ruffen]

Let me start by saying that I do not mean any disrespect to people who believe in religions, including Islam. I'm here to learn. But I also firmly believe that no ideas should be above critique or discussion, ever.

If I understand things correctly (but please correct me if I'm wrong) every single word of every verse in the Quran is the direct words of Allah, spoken to Muhammad by the agnel Gabriel/Jibril. The prophet Muhammad is responsible for writing them down, but every word is of divine origin.

Am I correct that this is how Muslims view the Quran?

If so, how could Muhammad know with absolute certainty that every word came from Allah? How do we know that the angel speaking the verses to Muhammad was honest and didn't make up any (or all) of the verses on his own? How can we know that Muhammad was honest and didn't make up any (or all) verses on his own? And how do we know that the Quran is pure and unedited?


Is it a circular reference (the Quran says Muhammad is the true prophet, and Muhammad wrote those words into the Quran and it must be true because Muhammad got the words from God, because it says so in the Quran)? Or is there another explanation as to why one should believe in the words in the Quran instead of other religious texts?

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Let me start by saying that I do not mean any disrespect to people who believe in religions, including Islam. I'm here to learn. But I also firmly believe that no ideas should be above critique or discussion, ever.

If I understand things correctly (but please correct me if I'm wrong) every single word of every verse in the Quran is the direct words of Allah, spoken to Muhammad by the agnel Gabriel/Jibril. The prophet Muhammad is responsible for writing them down, but every word is of divine origin.

Am I correct that this is how Muslims view the Quran?

If so, how could Muhammad know with absolute certainty that every word came from Allah? How do we know that the angel speaking the verses to Muhammad was honest and didn't make up any (or all) of the verses on his own? How can we know that Muhammad was honest and didn't make up any (or all) verses on his own? And how do we know that the Quran is pure and unedited?


Is it a circular reference (the Quran says Muhammad is the true prophet, and Muhammad wrote those words into the Quran and it must be true because Muhammad got the words from God, because it says so in the Quran)? Or is there another explanation as to why one should believe in the words in the Quran instead of other religious texts?

It is in Quran, that, Allah says such words: "If Muhammad says anything that I did not say, His neck vein is cut"

You can find the exact verse. I don't remember which Surrah.

So, do you think that if Muhammad made up Quran, and there is actually an All-knowing God, would God allow a Person to lie on His behalf?

The Second proof is, Muhammad was not a clergy. He was not a learned who had studied Religions, but He was revealing a knowledge that requires learning. Since He did not learn, then the other option is He was inspired by God.

 

[ruffen]

So, basically, you know that every word in the Quran must be the word of Allah because it says so in the Quran?

 

[ruffen]

The Second proof is, Muhammad was not a clergy. He was not a learned who had studied Religions, but He was revealing a knowledge that requires learning. Since He did not learn, then the other option is He was inspired by God.

This is indeed interesting. And if true it is a very impressive work done by Muhammad, whether one believes that he wrote the words of God or one believes that he made it up or had other sources.

How well established is the fact that Muhammad was not a religiously educated person? According to Wikipedia (i know, an unreliable source), it took Muhammad about 23 years to write down the Quran. Do we know that he didn't read or study other religious texts during this time?

I have no doubt that Muslim historisans have already done extensive research on this, but the question is how confident can we be that Muhammad had no other influences when working on the Quran?

 

[Pastek]

How well established is the fact that Muhammad was not a religiously educated person? According to Wikipedia (i know, an unreliable source), it took Muhammad about 23 years to write down the Quran. Do we know that he didn't read or study other religious texts during this time?

He was illiterate
And the prophet Muhammad was know as an honnest person, that's why many people trusted him.

Also, the Quran talks about many thing that Muhammad couldn't have know like the expension of the Universe :

51.47And the heaven We constructed with strength, and indeed, We are [its] expander.

Not that i'm a scientist or what, but you can maybe take a look in the section about Religion & Science or make some research on the net.

But what i think is that people trusted in him and the words (of God) touched people.
It's about faith more than proof in my sens.

If Muhammad was helped like some say, i think people would have found out.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

This is indeed interesting. And if true it is a very impressive work done by Muhammad, whether one believes that he wrote the words of God or one believes that he made it up or had other sources.

How well established is the fact that Muhammad was not a religiously educated person? According to Wikipedia (i know, an unreliable source), it took Muhammad about 23 years to write down the Quran. Do we know that he didn't read or study other religious texts during this time?

I have no doubt that Muslim historisans have already done extensive research on this, but the question is how confident can we be that Muhammad had no other influences when working on the Quran?

To the best of my knowledge there is no historical evidence Muhammad had an education in religions. He claimed in Quran that He did not write before. Now consider this: He had many companions who believed He was a True Prophet. If Muhammad had written before, it would have been known by His companions and they would not believe Him anymore.
I think ultimately it has to do with the Perception of each person. Some may see Quran as a book that cannot be produced by a human. Some may see Quran human work.

 

[ruffen]

Let's to a little thought experiment.

The words that are underlined here are words directly dictated by God. As your God I would like you to know that I would cut ruffen's neck vein if he was to lie about this or make this stuff up. Ruffen is my true prophet and I am your God. Read all ruffen's posts carefully, because they all speak the ultimate and unquestionable truth! Yours truly, God.

I can confirm that my neck vein is still intact. You probably do not believe that the underlined words are dictated to me directly from God, even though I just wrote that they are, as commanded by God himself. Actually this is a prediction God made and told me, I'd be very surprised if it was wrong and you are now converted Ruffenites. So now we have a divine text and a prediction that is proven to be true. I have no education in religions, I have not read the Bible or Quran or other religious text aside from a few bits and pieces here and there, and I am not a professional writer. Infact I was an illiterate and have never written anything before I came to this forum and God in his glory gave me the ability to write. I also would like to claim that the underlined text is perfect and could not be produced by a human.


So, how did Muhammad's words and reputation get so much weight that millions follow his (claimed God's) words and some even are willing to kill or die based on those words?

Why do you believe Muhammad's words and not mine although mine are also dictated directly by God himself?

 

[InvestigateTruth]

So, how did Muhammad's words and reputation get so much weight that millions follow his (claimed God's) words and some even are willing to kill or die based on those words?

Why do you believe Muhammad's words and not mine although mine are also dictated directly by God himself?

The coming of the Divine Prophets is like the coming of the Sun after darkness of night. They appeared in a time and place that was in the depth of darkness. In these circumstances they appear as bright as the Sun, while many people are looking for a Savior because they are oppressed. They are oppressed because they do not know what is false and what is true and have nowhere to refer to find their way. They are lost. In such a situation the Divine Prophet is manifested and is recognized by the seekers of truth. Off course eventually generations after generations His teachings is forgotten and people may only believe Him traditionally and by imitation from forefathers.

 

[Gharib]

If so, how could Muhammad know with absolute certainty that every word came from Allah? How do we know that the angel speaking the verses to Muhammad was honest and didn't make up any (or all) of the verses on his own? How can we know that Muhammad was honest and didn't make up any (or all) verses on his own? And how do we know that the Quran is pure and unedited?

First you need to understand why Muslims believe that Allah exists and then all the above questions will be answered.

If you don't want that, then the best answer I can give to you, seeing that you are not a Muslim, is because Islam teaches so. But that isn't a satisfactory answer is it.

 

[ecpinto]

I doubt the validity of the Quran, simply because it has contradictions or abrogation where a verse revealed at a later time, replaces/alters an earlier verse.
The concept is simple....God is perfect
Why would he reveal an imperfect verse?

 

[dynavert2012]

It is in Quran, that, Allah says such words: "If Muhammad says anything that I did not say, His neck vein is cut"

You can find the exact verse. I don't remember which Surrah.

[It is] a revelation from the Lord of the worldsو And if Muhammad had made up about Us some [false] sayings, We would have seized him by the right hand; Then We would have cut from him the aorta, And there is no one of you who could prevent [Us] from him, quran 69:44-47

 

[dynavert2012]

I doubt the validity of the Quran, simply because it has contradictions or abrogation where a verse revealed at a later time, replaces/alters an earlier verse.
The concept is simple....God is perfect
Why would he reveal an imperfect verse?

it's for too different reasons and so each verse has it's own story, you can post the verses you need to talk about and we will tell you why abrogation had been done

 

[Gharib]

I doubt the validity of the Quran, simply because it has contradictions or abrogation where a verse revealed at a later time, replaces/alters an earlier verse.
The concept is simple....God is perfect
Why would he reveal an imperfect verse?

The Qur'an was revealed gradually over a period of 23 years.

Some of it's verses deal with the issues that the Muslim community and the Prophet had to deal with on a daily basis and sometimes they were only for individual cases and not meant for the whole community but rather for the people directly involved.

So once the verses were revealed and the matter sorted, Allah has in numerous cases abrogated such rulings with something that is more befitting for the wider community and not just a handful of individuals.

To read more on abrogation please visit the thread linked below:

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/islam-dir/127059-abrogation-quran.html

 

[seeking4truth]

I doubt the validity of the Quran, simply because it has contradictions or abrogation where a verse revealed at a later time, replaces/alters an earlier verse.
The concept is simple....God is perfect
Why would he reveal an imperfect verse?

Can you give details of this please? Which verses do you think have been abrogated? (What exactly does abrogated mean?)

 

[seeking4truth]

The Holy Quran itself discusses this subject in several places.

As God is All Knowing He knew that people would say that the Quran was man made and therefore challenges any who believe this to reproduce even just a small part which has such depth of meaning.

 

[ruffen]

Seems like circular reasoning to me.

We know the Quran is true and is the word of God, because God says so... in the Quran.


Also, it is a fair point that the Quran does contain mistakes, contradictions, scientific mistakes etc. One can of course claim that the Quran is not a science book, but it is still not exepted from science as long as it makes claims on how the Universe and the Earth came into existence, and makes claims about astronomy, biology, reproduction etc. that are dubious at best.

One would think that "THE BOOK! by GOD HIMSELF" would indeed be a perfect book and not show so many signs of being authored by a human with a very human limitation on knowledge that science of the last 1400 years has improved on.

 

[Sha'irullah]

Well for beginners Muhammad did not write the Qur'an and the Qur'an was kept in circulation by oral recitation until written down after Muhammad's death.

There is no way of knowing Muhammad was a messenger of god especially when he performed no miracles. His deeds were glorified as godly no matter how obscure they were and these actions are the sunnah for Muslims.

There is no way to validate any of the Qur'an actually and it entirely relies upon its theological perfection of Christianity and Judaism.

The odds of the Qur'an being unedited are low. Certain verses contradict and are somehow superseded by the practice of nasikh. The Qur'an was kept in oral circulation and later recompiled a few times later with the addition of diacritic markings.

I recommend you to read the works of Ali Dashti and his own views of the Qur'an. He was deemed a Muslim oddly perhaps by mistake and the result of the society at that time. He viewed the Qur'an as a copy of the Tawrah and Bible while believing Muhammad was not a prophet and still somehow fitted inside of the Islamic circle.

 

[F0uad]

Let's to a little thought experiment.

The words that are underlined here are words directly dictated by God. As your God I would like you to know that I would cut ruffen's neck vein if he was to lie about this or make this stuff up. Ruffen is my true prophet and I am your God. Read all ruffen's posts carefully, because they all speak the ultimate and unquestionable truth! Yours truly, God.

I can confirm that my neck vein is still intact. You probably do not believe that the underlined words are dictated to me directly from God, even though I just wrote that they are, as commanded by God himself. Actually this is a prediction God made and told me, I'd be very surprised if it was wrong and you are now converted Ruffenites. So now we have a divine text and a prediction that is proven to be true. I have no education in religions, I have not read the Bible or Quran or other religious text aside from a few bits and pieces here and there, and I am not a professional writer. Infact I was an illiterate and have never written anything before I came to this forum and God in his glory gave me the ability to write. I also would like to claim that the underlined text is perfect and could not be produced by a human.


So, how did Muhammad's words and reputation get so much weight that millions follow his (claimed God's) words and some even are willing to kill or die based on those words?

Why do you believe Muhammad's words and not mine although mine are also dictated directly by God himself?

What do you present as evidence, The prophet(saws) brought for the Quran as evidence and i can go in detail later why the Quran is evidence.

 

[F0uad]

Well for beginners Muhammad did not write the Qur'an and the Qur'an was kept in circulation by oral recitation until written down after Muhammad's death.

There is no way of knowing Muhammad was a messenger of god especially when he performed no miracles. His deeds were glorified as godly no matter how obscure they were and these actions are the sunnah for Muslims.

There is no way to validate any of the Qur'an actually and it entirely relies upon its theological perfection of Christianity and Judaism.

The odds of the Qur'an being unedited are low. Certain verses contradict and are somehow superseded by the practice of nasikh. The Qur'an was kept in oral circulation and later recompiled a few times later with the addition of diacritic markings.

I recommend you to read the works of Ali Dashti and his own views of the Qur'an. He was deemed a Muslim oddly perhaps by mistake and the result of the society at that time. He viewed the Qur'an as a copy of the Tawrah and Bible while believing Muhammad was not a prophet and still somehow fitted inside of the Islamic circle.

O great a ex-muslim is a great source for information copying of the NWT and Torah? Yet they contradict the Quran strongly, if this is your argument you can also argue that the NWT is a copy of the Torah what would make no sense also. You did not even tackle the question you just spouted some nonsense.

 

[F0uad]

Seems like circular reasoning to me.

We know the Quran is true and is the word of God, because God says so... in the Quran.


Also, it is a fair point that the Quran does contain mistakes, contradictions, scientific mistakes etc. One can of course claim that the Quran is not a science book, but it is still not exepted from science as long as it makes claims on how the Universe and the Earth came into existence, and makes claims about astronomy, biology, reproduction etc. that are dubious at best.

One would think that "THE BOOK! by GOD HIMSELF" would indeed be a perfect book and not show so many signs of being authored by a human with a very human limitation on knowledge that science of the last 1400 years has improved on.

Could you please give us the references of those contradictions in there CONTEXT?