Is evolution as reliable as gravity?

[LuisDantas]

Kilgore, I suppose gravity in this context is a law of the universe we believe to constant. If we throw up an apple on Earth anywhere on Earth it will fall at the same rate, etc...

Is evolution to a point we can place it on the shelf, gravity, and other forces are on. It seems to me we can, but was looking for opinion...

Evolution is a proccess that happens along time, so it will always have a fundamental difference from gravity. For one thing, it is far more dependent on environmental circunstances.

 

[Engyo]

So is my question a good question? Also, I am not sure why your example would hinder an answer from you? If anything it might support you saying yes, it is as true and faithful as gravity...

I can give you my opinion. That is much different than stating my opinion as fact.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Depends what you mean by "reliable", I suppose.

Gravity is certainly easier to predict, test and measure, so in that sense it is clearly more "reliable", but then evolution theory is extremely reliable when used to produce flu jabs by predicting the evolutionary patterns of the flu virus.

This I completely agree with.

 

[Midnight Pete]

So what is the verdict. The more I read, listen too and talk with those who are authorities on evolution, I sense the certainty is just as great as us suggesting gravity is what it is.

Gravity is more of an immediate concern than evolution, isn't it? I can experience gravity but how I do experience evolution? And I do believe in evolution as a natural principle, btw.

 

[Gunfingers]

It breaks down more-or-less like this.

There is a fact of evolution. Populations of organisms evolve and all organisms show homologous traits, etc. There is no realistically disputing this fact

There is also a fact of gravity. Massive objects are attracted to each other.

The theory of gravity attempts to explain why massive objects are attracted to each other. I believe Einstein's "matter bends space" theory is the prevailing view of the day. This theory of gravity has some mathematical and experimental support, and is therefore generally accepted. Evolutionary theory, which is an attempt to explain the fact of evolution has enormous experimental support, and is accepted by everyone who isn't a bible thumper and a crazy person.

 

[David M]

So what is the verdict. The more I read, listen too and talk with those who are authorities on evolution, I sense the certainty is just as great as us suggesting gravity is what it is.

I'd say the certainty is greater. After all we understand the underlying mechanisms that cause evolution, we don't yet understand those mechanisms when it comes to gravity.

 

[Midnight Pete]

Gravity can be demonstrated with ridiculous ease and with no scientific training at all. Evolution is much more of an abtract. So how to gain a visceral understanding of evolution?

 

[LuisDantas]

Not much more abstract, really. The evidence is far less understood, that I'll readily grant, but still readily accessible these days.

As for how to understand it, I guess it takes some biology study. Or if I may suggest it, some reading from these links:

http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...eference-faqs-tutorials-theory-evolution.html

 

[Falvlun]

Gravity can be demonstrated with ridiculous ease and with no scientific training at all. Evolution is much more of an abtract. So how to gain a visceral understanding of evolution?

Sure, it's easy to drop an apple to the ground and see that it falls. But it is the reason behind why it falls that is important. This "why" is what the theory of gravity describes. Would you have known, intuitively, that it is because the difference in mass between the two objects-- the Earth is much more massive than the apple, so the apple is drawn towards the Earth. Would you know intuitively that the apple is also exerting a force upon the Earth?

 

[Midnight Pete]

Sure, it's easy to drop an apple to the ground and see that it falls. But it is the reason behind why it falls that is important. This "why" is what the theory of gravity describes. Would you have known, intuitively, that it is because the difference in mass between the two objects-- the Earth is much more massive than the apple, so the apple is drawn towards the Earth. Would you know intuitively that the apple is also exerting a force upon the Earth?

No, I wouldn't.

 

[painted wolf]

So what is the verdict. The more I read, listen too and talk with those who are authorities on evolution, I sense the certainty is just as great as us suggesting gravity is what it is.

In so much as we understand what gravity is.... Gravity is a slippery fish for physics.

Like gravity, evolution is universally accepted by those that actually work in the field... like gravity there is healthy debate on the details of how it functions.

for those that like supporting mathematics... here is one principle in Evolution: Hardy-Weinburg

See, biologists can do math too! :jiggy:

wa:do

 

[Nepenthe]

Great. Now I'm going to have dreams about Punnett squares all night. :ignore:

 

[logician]

So what is the verdict. The more I read, listen too and talk with those who are authorities on evolution, I sense the certainty is just as great as us suggesting gravity is what it is.

Actually, it is strange question as scientists understand evolution MUCH better than they understand gravity.

 

[demonIntegral]

Is evolution as reliable as gravity?

Let me parse that. No. The law of gravity clearly states - things fall down. So, when there's these "things" that happen to "fall," it is generally assumed that the direction of fall shall be downwards. Unless, there's alcohol involved... or, another force; or they are "lighter" than "air," or... but it is pretty reliable. Ya trip, ya fall, that's all.

Is evolution reliable? In what sense? That things will evolve? Like sharks and alligators? Or, if there's an environmental niche, will evolution force a mutation? Or will another species adapt? Will Creationists ever evolve?

I'm hardly a specialist in either field, but one began with an assumption and a lucky guess, produced some simple math for workable predictions, had the benefit of being easily observable, and became law. The other produced a body of work that a lifetime of study is insufficient to fully embrace, that tells us more of reality that reality ever did, and is more like "scientific fact" than most others such an oxymoron could hope to describe, only to be dismissed as "mere theory."

Thing about scince, if it's a law, it is either a simple piece of math or a simple statement, and it remains law from lack of falsification. Things generally don't fall up. Yea. That tells us something, we have learned some workable equations. Nice. A theory is actually all science really needs - that way, when things fall up, nothing illegal happens - and a theory of the beauty, complexity, and magnitude of evolution - is not something that can be just summed, nature selects. It ain't about f=ma. It ain't about the happy coincidence that gravitational mass equals inertial mass. It is about us; it is about who we are, what we are, and what we can hope to achieve.

Science that produces equations is great for the engineers. Science that theorizes such things as evolution - that's great for everyone.

 

[Gunfingers]

Let me parse that. No. The law of gravity clearly states - things fall down.

That's Newtonian gravity, and it only works when you're on earth. If you leave earth there stops being a universal "down" and Newtonian gravity stops being able to explain behavior.

 

[Revoltingest]

So what is the verdict. The more I read, listen too and talk with those who are authorities on evolution, I sense the certainty is just as great as us suggesting gravity is what it is.

I'll go even further than that. I'm more certain of evolution than gravity. Sure, sure...gravity has its direct effects made known daily, especially
while using a crane to move machinery this weekend. But the theoretical aspects of gravity defy my understanding, with all the competing
notions of gravitons, the "shape" of space as influenced by mass, etc. Evolution, however, is an inexorable consequence of the stochastic
process of natural selection & reproduction. Any engineer who designs control systems would find it as obvious as Murphy's Law.

 

[ninerbuff]

So what is the verdict. The more I read, listen too and talk with those who are authorities on evolution, I sense the certainty is just as great as us suggesting gravity is what it is.

Gravity is a theory. So is evolution. Just because something is theory doesn't mean that it cannot not exist especially when there is substantial evidence and facts that point to the theory being true.

 

[tumbleweed41]

Gravity is a theory. So is evolution. Just because something is theory doesn't mean that it cannot not exist especially when there is substantial evidence and facts that point to the theory being true.

Actually, both are facts that are explained by their respective theories. There are also the Laws of Gravity expressed in mathematical terms.

 

[A Thousand Suns]

Us getting evolved from Apes has like 0.00000000001 probability----i thought i had made it clear in another thread which apparently got deleted that there is no evolution-----many scientists agree with that

Also recent studies in molecular biology have proved the possibility of tracing biological races through mitochondrial DNA, which are micro molecules in the cell's liquid. Their mission is to support the living cell with the energy it needs. The DNA does not participate in the meiosis process for blending the genes of the parents, because it is taken from the mother's ovum only. This way, it would be possible to trace female generations back to great-grandmothers, until we come to the first mother Hawaa (Eve); this part of the mother's DNA does not change except by mutations inherited from a generation of mothers to another.

It has been discovered that all humans share one mitochondrial DNA that they have inherited from one grandmother who is the mother of all humanity, whose existence is assumed to have been 200,000 years ago. This scientific fact refutes the “Theory of Evolution” and the superstitions that claim man's multiple origins;

 

[Revoltingest]

Us getting evolved from Apes has like 0.00000000001 probability----

If yer gonna use math, at least show us your assumptions & calculations.
Otherwise, tis just plucking numbers from thin air.