Is Evolution Conscious (Some amazing points about evolution)

[Ouroboros]

Perhaps one day we will not even be flesh and blood. Perhaps we sill be synthetic or machines...

I believe it's totally possible. The only challenge on the way is ourselves. We're our own enemies. Humanity might destroy itself. We're both the dinosaur and the comet crashing down and killing them all. Some people do believe we're in the sixth extinction event.

But if we can avoid our own extinction, the phases of becoming synthetic humans probably will first go through all the kinds of protheses. Arms, legs, heart, lungs, organs, skin, nerves, bones, and ultimately... brain cells, replaced by artificially produced pseudo-biological material.

Some say this is the only way we can become space travelers. We first have to transform into a synthetic being that can take the radiation and travel distances in space.

now that would be evolution.

Agree. A small step for humans, but a big leap for evolution.

I wonder if we'd still have eyebrows

Nah. We'll have windshield wipers instead or local anti-gravity parts expelling the dust and water. But who knows. Maybe we'll keep them for the looks.

 

[Robert.Evans]

Chance, rather than luck.

Having arisen, by chance, it gets selected for or against.

That still sounds like luck, even if it does not sound as good. You might also say that something within the organism wanted to make sure it survived as a species. Now that would make sense why it stopped eating its own offspring. But your way it is sheer chance that instinct changed and said, don't eat them, protect them with your life.

 

[Kirran]

That still sounds like luck, even if it does not sound as good. You might also say that something within the organism wanted to make sure it survived as a species. Now that would make sense why it stopped eating its own offspring. But your way it is sheer chance that instinct changed and said, don't eat them, protect them with your life.

Not that I'm saying that the switch from no parental instinct whatsoever to a strong parental drive happened in one step, but basically, yes, that's what happened. By increments, each increment being selected for and becoming fixed in the population.

 

[Robert.Evans]

I believe it's totally possible. The only challenge on the way is ourselves. We're our own enemies. Humanity might destroy itself. We're both the dinosaur and the comet crashing down and killing them all. Some people do believe we're in the sixth extinction event.

But if we can avoid our own extinction, the phases of becoming synthetic humans probably will first go through all the kinds of protheses. Arms, legs, heart, lungs, organs, skin, nerves, bones, and ultimately... brain cells, replaced by artificially produced pseudo-biological material.

Some say this is the only way we can become space travelers. We first have to transform into a synthetic being that can take the radiation and travel distances in space.


Agree. A small step for humans, but a big leap for evolution.


Nah. We'll have windshield wipers instead or local anti-gravity parts expelling the dust and water. But who knows. Maybe we'll keep them for the looks.

M Kaku says it is theoretically possible to be part of a quantum computer, which I think he called the Browning Motion in a fluid; or something similar. The advantage was that it could work at cold temperatures where most life just stopped. Cause, that would not help us, we are just =cannon fodder

 

[Ouroboros]

But that's not what I said. What I am saying is, Why would it evolve an instinct that says...... don't eat food!?

That's why the brain helps. The brain can learn patterns and recognize its own "kind", which makes it possible to distinguish between food as other species and food as of my own brood. The individuals that were born with a non-functioning don't-eat-my-own-kind might eat every own-kind they see, but then there's no one to have babies with. Which means... there's no one to get the inheritance. The species with a tendency to not-eat-their-own-kind-too-much also have a tendency to have more babies (since there's more individuals to reproduce with).

 

[Kirran]

Anthropomorphising evolutionary processes runs into barriers such as the fact that there's a species of worm which can only survive by eating through the eyes of children.

That's why the brain helps. The brain can learn patterns and recognize its own "kind", which makes it possible to distinguish between food as other species and food as of my own brood. The individuals that were born with a non-functioning don't-eat-my-own-kind might eat every own-kind they see, but then there's no one to have babies with. Which means... there's no one to get the inheritance. The species with a tendency to not-eat-their-own-kind-too-much also have a tendency to have more babies (since there's more individuals to reproduce with).

This. Although of course, in practice, it would be acting at much subtler levels, and minor increments, but this is the general logic

 

[Robert.Evans]

Not that I'm saying that the switch from no parental instinct whatsoever to a strong parental drive happened in one step, but basically, yes, that's what happened. By increments, each increment being selected for and becoming fixed in the population.

So luck or, your preferred, ''chance'', do you not have a problem with that?? I mean, it is luck all the way really. It is all well and good picking something there, but the ''something'' had to evolve through luck and chances. I find that hard to believe when I see the clarity of species around us...

 

[Ouroboros]

Anthropomorphising evolutionary processes runs into barriers such as the fact that there's a species of worm which can only survive by eating through the eyes of children.

Man, that's gross...

 

[Kirran]

So luck or, your preferred, ''chance'', do you not have a problem with that?? I mean, it is luck all the way really. It is all well and good picking something there, but the ''something'' had to evolve through luck and chances. I find that hard to believe when I see the clarity of species around us...

Gotta understand the timescales here Bob.

 

[Robert.Evans]

That's why the brain helps. The brain can learn patterns and recognize its own "kind", which makes it possible to distinguish between food as other species and food as of my own brood. The individuals that were born with a non-functioning don't-eat-my-own-kind might eat every own-kind they see, but then there's no one to have babies with. Which means... there's no one to get the inheritance. The species with a tendency to not-eat-their-own-kind-too-much also have a tendency to have more babies (since there's more individuals to reproduce with).

But I don't see WHY in all of that, other than saying, Boy weren't we lucky. Is that it ultimately?

 

[Kirran]

Man, that's gross...

Maybe so. I found out about it by watching a video of Stephen (Steven?) Fry saying what he'd raise if he met God at the Pearly Gates.

 

[Kirran]

But I don't see WHY in all of that, other than saying, Boy weren't we lucky. Is that it ultimately?

The term 'luck' is ascribing some form of positive aspect to it, when really it's very neutral. Evolution is just a demonstration of the fact that more stable phenomena tend to last longer than unstable ones. A gene which promotes its own replication and survival is more stable than one that does so less successfully, and so becomes more common.

 

[Robert.Evans]

Gotta understand the timescales here Bob.

I appreciate that, but it is still random mutations, random chances, or to put it a more simple way, luck.... long time scale or not.

 

[Kirran]

I appreciate that, but it is still random mutations, random chances, or to put it a more simple way, luck.... long time scale or not.

Yeah, basically.

At least, it's by chance that these traits ARISE, not that they're propagated.

 

[Ouroboros]

So luck or, your preferred, ''chance'', do you not have a problem with that?? I mean, it is luck all the way really. It is all well and good picking something there, but the ''something'' had to evolve through luck and chances. I find that hard to believe when I see the clarity of species around us...

I've asked this before, but I'm not sure I asked you. Have you played Yatzee?

If you haven't, here's a simple explanation to how it works.

There are some 20 or so different combinations you can pick from, like "ones" or "twos" or "two pair" and so on. You have five dice. You roll them. (randomness, chance, luck) You pick the ones you want to keep (selection). Roll the other ones (chance again). Keep what you want and pick one of the best rows to fill in with the added numbers. (selection). At the end of the game, add up all the sums to a total. Every game, regardless how you play and what numbers you get on the dice and what you select for filling in, someone wins. Someone has the highest total, and someone has the lowest. It usually takes 30-60 minutes to play. But it never fails. Someone wins. And the game is based on "chance" (roll the dice) and "selection" (you pick what to keep). It's a simple illustration how evolution works. Many games are played. Many dice are rolled. Many selections are done. And someone will have a better number than other players. Always.

 

[Kirran]

I've asked this before, but I'm not sure I asked you. Have you played Yatzee?

If you haven't, here's a simple explanation to how it works.

There are some 20 or so different combinations you can pick from, like "ones" or "twos" or "two pair" and so on. You have five dice. You roll them. (randomness, chance, luck) You pick the ones you want to keep (selection). Roll the other ones (chance again). Keep what you want and pick one of the best rows to fill in with the added numbers. (selection). At the end of the game, add up all the sums to a total. Every game, regardless how you play and what numbers you get on the dice and what you select for filling in, someone wins. Someone has the highest total, and someone has the lowest. It usually takes 30-60 minutes to play. But it never fails. Someone wins. And the game is based on "chance" (roll the dice) and "selection" (you pick what to keep). It's a simple illustration how evolution works. Many games are played. Many dice are rolled. Many selections are done. And someone will have a better number than other players. Always.

Good lord that's a good analogy!

Hats off to you man, for real.

 

[Robert.Evans]

Loa loa filariasis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It is often used to show there is no G-d because it is so awful. It is merely evolcing consciousness. There is good and bad. And it is all us.

 

[Ouroboros]

But I don't see WHY in all of that, other than saying, Boy weren't we lucky. Is that it ultimately?

The genes for don't-eat-your-own-kind is most likely someone that necessarily has to evolve for higher species to exist. The truth is, every species can eat their own, and we do have examples of humans doing that as well in very critical situations. But species that has a despise to it, rejecting it emotionally and only by extreme pressure can overcome it, do survive longer as a species. It's just how a winning game is played.

And of course, I'm lucky to be me. Imagine if I was someone else, boy would I be confused... LOL!!!

 

[Kirran]

Loa loa filariasis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It is often used to show there is no G-d because it is so awful. It is merely evolcing consciousness. There is good and bad. And it is all us.

Fair enough. I don't ascribe to 'good' and 'bad' myself. But that's just me.

 

[Robert.Evans]

I've asked this before, but I'm not sure I asked you. Have you played Yatzee?

If you haven't, here's a simple explanation to how it works.

There are some 20 or so different combinations you can pick from, like "ones" or "twos" or "two pair" and so on. You have five dice. You roll them. (randomness, chance, luck) You pick the ones you want to keep (selection). Roll the other ones (chance again). Keep what you want and pick one of the best rows to fill in with the added numbers. (selection). At the end of the game, add up all the sums to a total. Every game, regardless how you play and what numbers you get on the dice and what you select for filling in, someone wins. Someone has the highest total, and someone has the lowest. It usually takes 30-60 minutes to play. But it never fails. Someone wins. And the game is based on "chance" (roll the dice) and "selection" (you pick what to keep). It's a simple illustration how evolution works. Many games are played. Many dice are rolled. Many selections are done. And someone will have a better number than other players. Always.

Yeah.... but that is a game, and not that complicated. I understand what you're saying. But you are asking it to make a human being by chance and picking the best all the time. Now, if you are going to tell me the pack is stacked, then count me in