Is evolution vs creationism that important.

[bobhikes]

I didn't say better, I said "better-adapted". This is not about the species liking the new trait or not. Evolution is about evolving to be better-suited to the environment. For instance, a certain species of fish evolved legs a long time ago to adapt to marshy areas because that helped it to survive by getting away from other fish. This isn't about what we think is "good" or "bad", just what's useful.

And 100 things don't change until one finally succeeds. Something changes and then changes some more and then changes some more. Depending on the changes in the environment during that time, those changes might stop or go in reverse, too.

The above statement is not correct. Species do adapt evolutionary changes due to liking the feature. There used to be one that was pointed to all the time it slips my mind right now. Check it out you will find that this is a correct statement.

Also evolution is a process of trial and error. Yes it is true the certian features may not die out and keep evolving but most features die off only those either helpful to the species or well liked by the species survive.

 

[Magic Man]

Are you talking about genetics? Are you talking about biology? These are valuable sciences that shape our world NOW. How does the theory of evolution do this? To me, it seems only to appease our nagging "why" questions that fill this world, but it doesn't actually solve any problems.

Ah, OK, then you just need to learn about evolution, then. Much (probably most) of our knowledge of biology and certainly genetics is based on evolution. Without evolution, those sciences would be stuck in the nineteenth century.

 

[Father Heathen]

Are you talking about genetics? Are you talking about biology? These are valuable sciences that shape our world NOW. How does the theory of evolution do this? To me, it seems only to appease our nagging "why" questions that fill this world, but it doesn't actually solve any problems.

So then does that mean history and astronomy are also "useless" since they don't directly impact our lives? Why do we need to know about The American Revolution or The Founding Fathers or WW2, etc? Why do we need to know about the discoveries of the Hubble telescope, etc? None of that directly impacts our lives, right? And wouldn't that also mean that everything in The Bible, except the direct commandments/laws, is useless? Why would you consider the story of Adam and Eve, Cain and Abel, Noah, Moses, etc. important? None of those tales directly impact your life. Would you say only that the ten commandments, believing Christ died for you sins and accepting him as your savior are really the only important aspect of your faith? Why not reduce the bible to a 2 page pamphlet?

 

[Magic Man]

The above statement is not correct. Species do adapt evolutionary changes due to liking the feature. There used to be one that was pointed to all the time it slips my mind right now. Check it out you will find that this is a correct statement.

No, it's actually quite correct. It doesn't matter whether I "like" the evolutionary change. Of course, the chances are I will because it will help me survive better, but whether or not I like it is irrelevant. The key is the ability to survive, not the "like".

Also evolution is a process of trial and error. Yes it is true the certian features may not die out and keep evolving but most features die off only those either helpful to the species or well liked by the species survive.

No, it's about the environment. If something dies off, it's because in the new environment, it's no longer useful. All features are constantly evolving. And again, it has nothing to do with whether or not the species likes the change. Primates that formed tails could have cut them off if they didn't like them, but their children would still grow them. It's not like a change occurs, and the species says "OK, I like that, it can stay".

 

[bobhikes]

So then does that mean history and astronomy are also "useless" since they don't directly impact our lives? Why do we need to know about The American Revolution or The Founding Fathers? Why do we need to know about the discoveries of the Hubble telescope? None of that directly impacts our lives, right? And wouldn't that also mean that everything in The Bible, except the direct commandments/laws, is useless? Why would you consider the story of Adam and Eve, Cain and Abel, Noah, Moses, etc. important? None of those tales directly impact your life. Would you say only that the ten commandments, believing Christ died for you sins and accepting him as your savior are really the only important aspect of your faith? Why not reduce the bible to a 2 page pamphlet?

In my day to day life as a non-thesist none of the above effects me. I don't want to put a lot of people out of work. I would like to concentrate on the things that effect me and fix them so that my life is better.

 

[Magic Man]

In my day to day life as a non-thesist none of the above effects me. I don't want to put a lot of people out of work. I would like to concentrate on the things that effect me and fix them so that my life is better.

So, what you're saying is that if it's not affecting you at this very moment, then it's not important? So, somebody studying automechanics isn't important because right now your car is running fine?

 

[tomspug]

I suppose I just need a good example of how evolution has positively impacted genetics and biology.

 

[Magic Man]

I suppose I just need a good example of how evolution has positively impacted genetics and biology.

I can't give you any specific examples. Hopeully, painted wolf or someone else can show up to provide that. All I can say is that we wouldn't know much about either topic without a knowledge of evolution.

 

[camanintx]

I suppose I just need a good example of how evolution has positively impacted genetics and biology.

If immunologists didn't have some understanding of how viruses evolve, then wouldn't selecting which flu strains to include in annual immunizations be like throwing darts at a dart board?

 

[painted wolf]

Obviously my links were not as well read as I'd hope they would be.

It goes beyond emerging viruses.
The whole field of genetics is dependent on evolution. Tracking genetic disorders, treating them and finding future cures is based on evolution.
I suppose if you do not have a genetic illness such as Huntington's or Hemophilia it doesn't really matter to you, but it does to those people.

It's about breeding crops and livestock that are better suited to their environments by understanding evolution not only of the species in question, but related species and species already adapted to said conditions. (and maintaining genetic diversity of existing crops)

Evolution helps us prevent crop pests by developing specific strategies for each species, this not only helps feed millions but it helps prevent illness due to pesticide and other chemical contamination. It helps us understand for example how insects develop resistance to said chemicals.

We would not understand ecology without evolution. This helps us design programs to manage wild resources and limit extinctions. Not only providing jobs and enjoyment but potential future medicines and other advances.
Modern conservation is depends on evolution.

Many modern products are utilizing bio-design. By understanding how animals have evolved to suit their environments we can design more efficient products such as cars, ships and airplanes.

Evolution also helps us understand ourselves and our history as a species. We know where and when lactose tolerance evolved and thus how our relationship with domesticated animals developed. We know that we are indeed one species, united by common ancestry from the deep time of Africa.
Racism is unjustifiable from an evolutionary standpoint.
Sexism is unjustifiable from an evolutionary standpoint.

Evolution helps us find oil. The evolutionary history of microscopic fossils called Forams (Foraminifera) is what helps oil companies find the right layers of sediment to drill for oil.
Without evolution you would have no industry... your car would no longer run.

That is some of that Evolution does for you. And you never have to say thanks.

wa:do

 

[Nepenthe]

Obviously my links were not as well read as I'd hope they would be.

It goes beyond emerging viruses.
The whole field of genetics is dependent on evolution. Tracking genetic disorders, treating them and finding future cures is based on evolution.
I suppose if you do not have a genetic illness such as Huntington's or Hemophilia it doesn't really matter to you, but it does to those people.

It's about breeding crops and livestock that are better suited to their environments by understanding evolution not only of the species in question, but related species and species already adapted to said conditions. (and maintaining genetic diversity of existing crops)

Evolution helps us prevent crop pests by developing specific strategies for each species, this not only helps feed millions but it helps prevent illness due to pesticide and other chemical contamination. It helps us understand for example how insects develop resistance to said chemicals.

We would not understand ecology without evolution. This helps us design programs to manage wild resources and limit extinctions. Not only providing jobs and enjoyment but potential future medicines and other advances.
Modern conservation is depends on evolution.

Many modern products are utilizing bio-design. By understanding how animals have evolved to suit their environments we can design more efficient products such as cars, ships and airplanes.

Evolution also helps us understand ourselves and our history as a species. We know where and when lactose tolerance evolved and thus how our relationship with domesticated animals developed. We know that we are indeed one species, united by common ancestry from the deep time of Africa.
Racism is unjustifiable from an evolutionary standpoint.
Sexism is unjustifiable from an evolutionary standpoint.

Evolution helps us find oil. The evolutionary history of microscopic fossils called Forams (Foraminifera) is what helps oil companies find the right layers of sediment to drill for oil.
Without evolution you would have no industry... your car would no longer run.

That is some of that Evolution does for you. And you never have to say thanks.

wa:do

"The whole field of genetics is dependent on evolution."
Exactly. Evolution is the lynch pin of biology; evolutionis the grand unified theory for all the biological sciences. And if anyone denies that biology is a bankrupt field with no practical applications, well, then they're just being willfully ignorant. From bioinformatics, animal husbandry, food/crop productions, viruses, disease resistance, biopolymers, statistical techniques, and on and on. I'm just parroting what others have already posted here of course....
Here's a basic, concise essay on the practical apps of biological evolution.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Then your quesiton makes no sense. It's not affecting you today, unless you are sick.

Or unless you enjoy eating:

Colony Collapse Disorder - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Bees pollenate most crops. In the past few years, bee colonies have been disappearing; it started in North America, but is now being seen in Europe and other places. If the current trend continues, there will be regions of North America at the very least that will not have enough bees to fertilize their crops within a few years.

Researchers have been trying to determine why this is happening and come up with a way to stop it. A knowledge of how changes in the environment affect species (IOW, evolution) is key in figuring out this problem.

 

[Magic Man]

Or that. It's amazing all the uses we have for evolution, isn't it?

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Indeed - it's hard not to acknowledge the benefits which studying evolution has provided us. (Apparently harder for some than others).

 

[Autodidact]

Well, is the truth important?

 

[Jose Fly]

Just to kind of pile on here, an understanding of the fact that populations evolve is vital in all manner of ways.

For example, understanding not only that viruses evolve, but how they evolve is vital to developing new vaccines, e.g. our understanding of viral evolution is key to developing new flu vaccines.

Also, an understanding of the common ancestry of all life on earth allows us to discern genetic functions that are otherwise hard to figure out. CLICK HERE to read a paper describing this utility (or you can CLICK HERE to read a more layperson explanation).

Having complete genome sequences for both humans and our closest relative, the chimpanzee, has aided our understanding of how our own genome functions.

 

[Nepenthe]

Not a direct reply to the OP but this is a cool paper from Nature. it basically explains the sheer breadth of evolutionary thought and how substantiated it is.

 

[Father Heathen]

So then does that mean history and astronomy are also "useless" since they don't directly impact our lives? Why do we need to know about The American Revolution or The Founding Fathers or WW2, etc? Why do we need to know about the discoveries of the Hubble telescope, etc? None of that directly impacts our lives, right? And wouldn't that also mean that everything in The Bible, except the direct commandments/laws, is useless? Why would you consider the story of Adam and Eve, Cain and Abel, Noah, Moses, etc. important? None of those tales directly impact your life. Would you say only that the ten commandments, believing Christ died for you sins and accepting him as your savior are really the only important aspect of your faith? Why not reduce the bible to a 2 page pamphlet?

Thomas? Thoughts? You were complaining about one sentence replies in your other thread. Well, here you go.

 

[darkendless]

In my day to day life as a non-thesist none of the above effects me. I don't want to put a lot of people out of work. I would like to concentrate on the things that effect me and fix them so that my life is better.

As i've said many times, evolution is affecting you right now. If you accept a young earth theory then technically your house should fall over within the next 2-6 weeks depending on a number of factors. Generally speaking though, you're F*****. I can only speak from an engineering perspective but when it takes 9000 years for 6 inches of soil to form and compact from organic matter, the formation of the earth as we know it now starts making a lot of sense. Especially when you include things like the rock cycle and geological patterns into the mix. If i were to be wrong and my knowledge of evolution is incorrect, then that presents a huge problem to humanity.

 

[Zardoz]

Myself, I have no problem with either. The whole 'versus' issue is odd to me, actually. Apples Vs. Oranges. May as well ask: 'Right Leg Vs. Left leg - which to chop off?"

Evolution is the path of the Guph, or body. Creation is the path of the Neshama, or soul.

Both are absolutely right, and true IMHO.

I may post on this subject eventually, but in my DIR forum as you can see I really have no desire to debate this (to me) non-issue. I'd rather just teach my co-religionists what I was taught and let them see that Evolution is absolutely kosher and does not refute what our actual creation story tells us.

Shalom