Is Faith Blind?

[tariqkhwaja]

My problem with miracles and faith is people see what they want to see, they hear what they want to hear, they attribute fortune to God's will and they continue to pray for lost causes. Thats how blind a lot of faith is.

Valid point. But take the cases of the miracles that religions claim. If you assume that the examples presented in various religious books of miracles were facts then surely, such miracles have to be attributed to Divine intervention. For example, we read about the miracle of Hazrat Hajra (mother of Ismael) in the Quran who went to and fro two mountains seven times in search of water for her little baby. Eventually, water sprung right under the baby's feet.

See when something like that happens. And happens quite a lot in your life. Then it would take a really dishonest person to not believe in Divine Interference. By claiming that miracles still exist I do not wish to move you away from skepticism. Be a skeptic and then the miracle will be even more fulfilling.

 

[cardero]

There are also other ways to abuse belief. When YOU have so much faith in YOUR belief that it is not only detrimental to YOUR well-BEing but the well-BEing of others. They also close themselves off to re-creation, to finding the TRUE UNDERSTANDING in the PURPOSE of their beliefs. This is called “believing blindly.”

HELLO IT'S ME: An Interview With GOD
Chapter: Belief, Faith , Hope and Joy
Pg: 165

 

[darkendless]

Valid point. But take the cases of the miracles that religions claim. If you assume that the examples presented in various religious books of miracles were facts then surely, such miracles have to be attributed to Divine intervention. For example, we read about the miracle of Hazrat Hajra (mother of Ismael) in the Quran who went to and fro two mountains seven times in search of water for her little baby. Eventually, water sprung right under the baby's feet.

See when something like that happens. And happens quite a lot in your life. Then it would take a really dishonest person to not believe in Divine Interference. By claiming that miracles still exist I do not wish to move you away from skepticism. Be a skeptic and then the miracle will be even more fulfilling.

I do not dismiss miracles, but i assure you it would take a lot to move me. Im one of those people who see's no point in faith other than an interesting topic of debate. Unlike the faithful i will not follow blindly without evidence so to speak, it takes more than a book to convince my stubborn mind. Another thing is the legitamacy of miracles as i spoke of above, sadly people are not truthful when it comes to their experiences with higher powers.

 

[Storm]

sadly people are not truthful when it comes to their experiences with higher powers.

Why do you say that? Why assume that people are lying?

 

[darkendless]

Why do you say that? Why assume that people are lying?

$ <-- That sign says it all

 

[Storm]

What aobut people who aren't selling their testimonies? We do exist, after all, and I'd be willing to bet we outnumber the frauds.

 

[darkendless]

What aobut people who aren't selling their testimonies? We do exist, after all, and I'd be willing to bet we outnumber the frauds.

What about born again Christians who have visions of Christ to rid themselves of surface guilt? They do it to gain the trust of their peers.
As i stated earlier i guarantee a lot of people choose what they see, they see what they want to see to feel closer to God for whatever reason

 

[Storm]

What about born again Christians who have visions of Christ to rid themselves of surface guilt? They do it to gain the trust of their peers.
As i stated earlier i guarantee a lot of people choose what they see, they see what they want to see to feel closer to God for whatever reason

I guarantee YOU that I did no such thing. I was an atheist when I had my theophany.

 

[Embrace]

I guarantee YOU that I did no such thing. I was an atheist when I had my theophany.

What was yours exactly?

Not against or for your side, just curious.

 

[darkendless]

I guarantee YOU that I did no such thing. I was an atheist when I had my theophany.

Im not accusing you of lying, i believe you, but i do not believe everyone. Many you can tell by their character that God really did not appear to them in a dream. Family friends of my parents for example send their kids to private schools and lie on their tax returns to make money, i'd be inclined to deny their claims for they are prolific liars.

I guess we'll find out when we die whether the God you saw will accept your love and send me to hell?

 

[Storm]

What was yours exactly?

Not against or for your side, just curious.

I'm not willing to post it on the boards. If you're really interested, PM me. I have to warn you, it's not a pleasant read.

 

[Embrace]

Im not accusing you of lying, i believe you, but i do not believe everyone. Many you can tell by their character that God really did not appear to them in a dream. Family friends of my parents for example send their kids to private schools and lie on their tax returns to make money, i'd be inclined to deny their claims for they are prolific liars.

I guess we'll find out when we die whether the God you saw will accept your love and send me to hell?

Can you even say seeing "God" in a dream as an epiphany? Dreams are dreams. I bet you that God will make an appearance in my dreams tonight merely because of my recent action on these forums.

I just want to hear what people experience that assure their faith in God.

 

[Storm]

I guess we'll find out when we die whether the God you saw will accept your love and send me to hell?

>sigh< Why does everyone insist on stereotyping my beliefs without bothering to find out the first thing about them?

I don't believe in anything remotely resembling hell. I also don't believe God gives a flying damn what we believe.

 

[Embrace]

>sigh< Why does everyone insist on stereotyping my beliefs without bothering to find out the first thing about them?

I don't believe in anything remotely resembling hell. I also don't believe God gives a flying damn what we believe.

Based on your link below, are you saying you don't belong to any major religion on this planet and instead follow your own personal beliefs?

 

[darkendless]

>sigh< Why does everyone insist on stereotyping my beliefs without bothering to find out the first thing about them?

I don't believe in anything remotely resembling hell. I also don't believe God gives a flying damn what we believe.

I apologise, my actual rant above was about seeing images of "God". Therefore i assumed you had seen "god" also.

Also, how to people know they've seen God, what makes him unique to them, maybe its Jimi Hendrix leading them?

 

[Storm]

Based on your link below, are you saying you don't belong to any major religion on this planet and instead follow your own personal beliefs?

Yes. At this point, I could found a new religion if I had any interest in doing so.

 

[Storm]

I apologise, my actual rant above was about seeing images of "God". Therefore i assumed you had seen "god" also.

Apology accepted.

My experience was not of the senses. That is, I didn't see anything.

Also, how to people know they've seen God, what makes him unique to them, maybe its Jimi Hendrix leading them?

 

[darkendless]

Can you even say seeing "God" in a dream as an epiphany? Dreams are dreams. I bet you that God will make an appearance in my dreams tonight merely because of my recent action on these forums.

I just want to hear what people experience that assure their faith in God.

I guess maybe you cant :S

I plan to get so blind drunk tonight that i wont dream at all

I curious to ask those who've had a personal vision of God what made him God, or was faith blindly leading them to accept this random vision as God?

 

[tariqkhwaja]

I do not dismiss miracles, but i assure you it would take a lot to move me. Im one of those people who see's no point in faith other than an interesting topic of debate. Unlike the faithful i will not follow blindly without evidence so to speak, it takes more than a book to convince my stubborn mind. Another thing is the legitamacy of miracles as i spoke of above, sadly people are not truthful when it comes to their experiences with higher powers.

Exactly, be skeptic. I guess we agree then. Faith should not be blind and if it is it is just hypocrisy.

 

[Vasilisa Jade]

>sigh< Why does everyone insist on stereotyping my beliefs without bothering to find out the first thing about them?

I don't believe in anything remotely resembling hell. I also don't believe God gives a flying damn what we believe.

lmao. I was about to post a reply about that right when I read it, until I saw this. I was thinking... oh lord he just didn't!

I curious to ask those who've had a personal vision of God what made him God, or was faith blindly leading them to accept this random vision as God?

That's a cool question, and you should post it somewhere. Just remember that not everyone here sticks with christian ideas. Just because someone says they had a vision, doesn't mean it was a vision associated with christian concepts There are even christians here who do not believe in "hell." LDS believe in "outer darkness," which is simply eternal seperation from God. And they believe very very few will end up there. And that is very different from other variations of christianity.