Is Faith/Religion needed to live -- my analysis of Jordan Peterson

[Trailblazer]

But your given prophecy is not evidence at all.
So out of the four things you suggest are the best evidence, which one is the best?

The scriptures that Baha’u’llah wrote are the best evidence.

“The enormous expansion in the scope and volume of Bahá’u’lláh’s writings, after His return from Sulaymáníyyih, is yet another distinguishing feature of the period under review. The verses that streamed during those years from His pen, described as “a copious rain” by Himself, whether in the form of epistles, exhortations, commentaries, apologies, dissertations, prophecies, prayers, odes or specific Tablets, contributed, to a marked degree, to the reformation and progressive unfoldment of the Bábí community, to the broadening of its outlook, to the expansion of its activities and to the enlightenment of the minds of its members. So prolific was this period, that during the first two years after His return from His retirement, according to the testimony of Nabíl, who was at that time living in Baghdád, the unrecorded verses that streamed from His lips averaged, in a single day and night, the equivalent of the Qur’án! As to those verses which He either dictated or wrote Himself, their number was no less remarkable than either the wealth of material they contained, or the diversity of subjects to which they referred. A vast, and indeed the greater, proportion of these writings were, alas, lost irretrievably to posterity. No less an authority than Mírzá Áqá Ján, Bahá’u’lláh’s amanuensis, affirms, as reported by Nabíl, that by the express order of Bahá’u’lláh, hundreds of thousands of verses, mostly written by His own hand, were obliterated and cast into the river. “Finding me reluctant to execute His orders,” Mírzá Áqá Ján has related to Nabíl, “Bahá’u’lláh would reassure me saying: ‘None is to be found at this time worthy to hear these melodies.’ …Not once, or twice, but innumerable times, was I commanded to repeat this act.” A certain Muḥammad Karím, a native of Shíráz, who had been a witness to the rapidity and the manner in which the Báb had penned the verses with which He was inspired, has left the following testimony to posterity, after attaining, during those days, the presence of Bahá’u’lláh, and beholding with his own eyes what he himself had considered to be the only proof of the mission of the Promised One: “I bear witness that the verses revealed by Bahá’u’lláh were superior, in the rapidity with which they were penned, in the ease with which they flowed, in their lucidity, their profundity and sweetness to those which I, myself saw pour from the pen of the Báb when in His presence. Had Bahá’u’lláh no other claim to greatness, this were sufficient, in the eyes of the world and its people, that He produced such verses as have streamed this day from His pen.” God Passes By, pp. 137-138

 

[scott777]

The scriptures that Baha’u’llah wrote are the best evidence.

“The enormous expansion in the scope and volume of Bahá’u’lláh’s writings, after His return from Sulaymáníyyih, is yet another distinguishing feature of the period under review. The verses that streamed during those years from His pen, described as “a copious rain” by Himself, whether in the form of epistles, exhortations, commentaries, apologies, dissertations, prophecies, prayers, odes or specific Tablets, contributed, to a marked degree, to the reformation and progressive unfoldment of the Bábí community, to the broadening of its outlook, to the expansion of its activities and to the enlightenment of the minds of its members. So prolific was this period, that during the first two years after His return from His retirement, according to the testimony of Nabíl, who was at that time living in Baghdád, the unrecorded verses that streamed from His lips averaged, in a single day and night, the equivalent of the Qur’án! As to those verses which He either dictated or wrote Himself, their number was no less remarkable than either the wealth of material they contained, or the diversity of subjects to which they referred. A vast, and indeed the greater, proportion of these writings were, alas, lost irretrievably to posterity. No less an authority than Mírzá Áqá Ján, Bahá’u’lláh’s amanuensis, affirms, as reported by Nabíl, that by the express order of Bahá’u’lláh, hundreds of thousands of verses, mostly written by His own hand, were obliterated and cast into the river. “Finding me reluctant to execute His orders,” Mírzá Áqá Ján has related to Nabíl, “Bahá’u’lláh would reassure me saying: ‘None is to be found at this time worthy to hear these melodies.’ …Not once, or twice, but innumerable times, was I commanded to repeat this act.” A certain Muḥammad Karím, a native of Shíráz, who had been a witness to the rapidity and the manner in which the Báb had penned the verses with which He was inspired, has left the following testimony to posterity, after attaining, during those days, the presence of Bahá’u’lláh, and beholding with his own eyes what he himself had considered to be the only proof of the mission of the Promised One: “I bear witness that the verses revealed by Bahá’u’lláh were superior, in the rapidity with which they were penned, in the ease with which they flowed, in their lucidity, their profundity and sweetness to those which I, myself saw pour from the pen of the Báb when in His presence. Had Bahá’u’lláh no other claim to greatness, this were sufficient, in the eyes of the world and its people, that He produced such verses as have streamed this day from His pen.” God Passes By, pp. 137-138

It's still unclear what the evidence is for God. Couldn't he have just made it all up?

 

[Trailblazer]

It's still unclear what the evidence is for God. Couldn't he have just made it all up?

It would be very difficult to make all that up and if you knew the content of the verses it would be easier to understand why....

Besides that, motive is everything, so one would have to ask themselves why He would make all that up, given He did not get any personal benefits for Himself... Mind you, He was born into a wealthy family and he was offered a post as a minister in the government, but He gave that up to complete His Mission for God...

After declining that post, Baha’u’llah aligned with the Cause of the Bab, another Messenger of God whose sole purpose was to announce the coming of Baha’u’llah. As a result of supporting the Bab, and through the influence of the Muslim clergy, the Shah of Persia and other governments exiled Baha’u’llah and banished Him from place to place. During the 40 years of His Mission, His status was always that of a prisoner. For a brief overview of Baha’u’llah’s life, I suggest you watch this 10 minute video.

 

[scott777]

It would be very difficult to make all that up and if you knew the content of the verses it would be easier to understand why....

Besides that, motive is everything, so one would have to ask themselves why He would make all that up, given He did not get any personal benefits for Himself... Mind you, He was born into a wealthy family and he was offered a post as a minister in the government, but He gave that up to complete His Mission for God...

Difficult or not, motive or not, it's possible. People can believe in extraordinary things. Therefore it's not evidence. Unless certain things can be independently verified, such as prophecies. But anyway, I don't know which bits you are calling evidence. You have to be specific. Just give an example.

I do like the Samuel Barber though.

 

[Trailblazer]

Difficult or not, motive or not, it's possible. People can believe in extraordinary things. Therefore it's not evidence.

Anything is possible. It is not about what we can believe in because our beliefs prove nothing; it is about what Baha'u'llah actually did. Can you think of another explanation as to why He endured all that He did other than that he did it for God? He got nothing for Himself so He cannot have been a con-man or a liar, and a psychotic man could not write what He did so eloquently. So we have rule out those possibilities. What else is there to explain His Life?

Evidence is not the same thing as proof. Evidence indicates that something is true, proof proves that it is true with facts. Nobody can ever prove someone got a message from a God, so some of our belief has to be based on faith coupled with the evidence that indicates that the claim was true.

The evidence that indicates that Baha'u'llah's claim was true, that he actually got a message from God, is as follows: His character; the history of His life; what He did during His mission on earth; the scriptures that He wrote; what others have written about Him; the Bible prophecies that He fulfilled and the prophecies of other religions that He fulfilled; the predictions He made that have come to pass; the religion that was established as the result of His Revelation, what His followers all over the world have done and are doing now. All this constitutes evidence that is verifiable.

Unless certain things can be independently verified, such as prophecies. But anyway, I don't know which bits you are calling evidence. You have to be specific. Just give an example.

In this book is a list of 30 things that Baha’u’llah predicted that actually came to pass: The Challenge of Baha'u'llah. These predictions can be independently verified.

 

[scott777]

Can you think of another explanation as to why He endured all that He did other than that he did it for God? He got nothing for Himself so He cannot have been a con-man or a liar, and a psychotic man could not write what He did so eloquently.

I don't deny he did it because he believed in God. How many millions of people do extraordinary things because of religious belief? That is sufficient.

Evidence is not the same thing as proof. Evidence indicates that something is true, proof proves that it is true with facts. Nobody can ever prove someone got a message from a God, so some of our belief has to be based on faith coupled with the evidence that indicates that the claim was true.

I don't know why you're telling me this. I haven't asked for proof.

The evidence that indicates that Baha'u'llah's claim was true, that he actually got a message from God, is as follows: His character; the history of His life; what He did during His mission on earth; the scriptures that He wrote; what others have written about Him; the Bible prophecies that He fulfilled and the prophecies of other religions that He fulfilled; the predictions He made that have come to pass; the religion that was established as the result of His Revelation, what His followers all over the world have done and are doing now. All this constitutes evidence that is verifiable.

I keep asking for a speciic thing, but you won't give one. So I'll pick one.

His character. So, what about his character is evidence of God?

 

[Trailblazer]

I keep asking for a speciic thing, but you won't give one. So I'll pick one.

His character. So, what about his character is evidence of God?

I cannot explain all of that in a post. You would have to read about His life in order to understand.
Let me know if you are interested and I can send you some links to books.

Meanwhile, you can watch this video which will give you an overview. You will have to run it back to the beginning because for some reason the video does not start at the beginning.