The Reverend Bob
Fart Machine and Beastmaster
I am worried about Matt's health. This isn't about politics and communism vs. fascism.
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Is Fascism worse than other forms of Abrahamic Monotheism?
- Thread starter Spiderman
- Start date
Spiderman
Veteran Member
Thank you! And I hold myself in contempt if I have disrespected victims of fascists.I'm glad to hear it.
If my response to @PopeADope looks a bit strange, it's because I'm an ex-communist and have had to deal with issues of my own because of what I believed. I was involved in the movement (mainly online) for over ten years and really had to struggle to come to terms with the fact I was supporting a system that killed 100 million people. I have tried pulling myself out of it, but it remains a daily struggle and you have to deal with really dark, difficult stuff that makes you deeply uncomfortable. You have to root yourself back in "reality" where people get hurt and hurt each other when thinking about the ideas of a "perfect world" is much more attractive and reassuring. (if anything that kind of exposure temporarily makes your beliefs stronger and you even more fervent out of the insecurity) I wouldn't wish it on anyone, but going through it has proven to be ultimately the right thing to do.
It's worth keeping in mind that everyone has their own story behind the label. No-one is born a fascist and the story of how someone becomes involved in Fascism (or Communism in my case) is usually much more interesting that what their beliefs are. There is always a chance they can find a way to become someone without those beliefs, as they had been before they got involved with them.
If you can get someone to think about where they are from, how they got there and whether it was inevitable, you might be able to find ways to show them their are alternatives and they have a choice about who they are and can become. It's as much an emotional journey in to and out of a belief system (much like a cult) as it is a purely rational question of the right arguments.
I hope that clears things up a little bit.
I consider victims of fascists, victims of Americans, victims of communists, and victims of all governments and Empires to be heroes and martyrs.
I admire the enemies of Mussolini who sacrificed their lives for what they believed in. I venerate them and pay them homage.
I do not promote the idea of fascist government unless it is a benevolent dictator who knows what is best for the world and the people. I am skeptical of any group that wants fascist government. I renounce Nazis skinheads and anti-semites!
I think fascism worked miracles for economies and other miracles, and that the miracles fascism works , can be worked in minds , hearts , and souls, for those who make of it and interior practice, leading to spiritual perfection.
There are many paths to the same summit. I find fascism to be a fascinating spirituality and religion that motivates me more than others, to renounce the unhealthy things I love, and to do battle with my unruly Passions.
For those who have found a different path than fascism, they deserve respect for finding a different path that works for them.
Spiderman
Veteran Member
I appreciate it!
Please pray to your higher power for me.
However, fascism motivates me to renounce the things I cherish that are unhealthy for me. It is causing me to rise earlier, stay off drugs, be less selfish, be more organized, do battle with the sins i delight in, practice more meditation, go to daily mass, love nature, love animals, love people, walk with purpose, and lead a better example.
With that in mind, it appears fascism is beneficial, and better for my mind then other forms of therapy. We all need something we're passionate about.
If I can live a good example that shows one other person that fascism doesn't have to be the ugly word it has become, and show them a demonstration of its good fruits, then I have accomplished my mission.
If I could, I would steer fascists away from the hatred and bigotry , and lead them to humility and charity.
The Reverend Bob
Fart Machine and Beastmaster
I always pray for you Matt. I worry about you, especially now that you lost your sponsor
Those are positives and maybe the discipline, the organisation can help you make changes in life that you really need to do. The pull of extremism is usually that it empowers people and that can help produce positive growth, but the negatives can come to dominate and strip away parts of yourself that aren't worth sacrificing. It comes down to values in the end and how best to achieve and realise them.
But if you are going through a really serious rough patch in life though, it doesn't hurt to get outside support and help. It's always worth having someone around to let off steam and share the burdens of things that get thrown at us.
Spiderman
Veteran Member
I see mental health professionals roughly 5 times a week because I'm on an act team. I take the cab to mental health groups every week. I also attend AA meetings.
Mental health professionals come to me, knock on my door , and see that it is covered with fascist propaganda and explanations of why.
They give me a more balanced view, and warned me that I might be having a manic episode. However, it leads to a very interesting discussion where I'm able to share what I'm passionate about and studying
Today, one of them confirmed that what I'm going through is having positive outcomes.
If housing staff ask me to take down the pictures and writings, I will comply.
The Reverend Bob
Fart Machine and Beastmaster
I know you look at it as a symbol of strength and that might be a positive sometimes, but quit getting beat up because of it. Use discretion Matt, the real world isn't like an online forum. In the real world consequences can be more immediate and sometimes brutal if people feel that they were offended. I just want you to be careful, hopefully someday you won't need it anymore. That's what I pray for, that you'll have something more positive in your life to give you the strength you need.
Spiderman
Veteran Member
I actually do constructive charitable deeds, and multiple people have thanked me. I've often been friends with those who are unloved.
. Ive done nothing great in my opinion, but am improving and desire it. No, I don't want to be like Mussolini. I want his positive qualities but don't want to make his mistakes. Therefore, I don't really want to be like him after all.
National Socialism and Italian Fascism are very different ideologies. Hitler was not a Christian and was not inspired by Christianity in any significant way. He was known to make anti-Christian comments in private.
rocala
Well-Known Member
A description that fits many sex offenders and assorted scum.
Well if that is the case I suggest you do a lot more reading. Stop hanging about here with your pathetic attention seeking and spend that time learning
Spiderman
Veteran Member
I know he did a lot of things that I find very wrong!
He had qualities that I find disgusting!
Yet the good things that he wrote and accomplished inspire me more than any other historical figure as of now.
Shad
Veteran Member
How can you say it is any more shameful to be adhering to Fascism than to adhere to Abrahamic Monotheism?
The founder of Fascismdeclared Fascism to be a Religion.
It is essentially a very patriotic version of Christianity. There is an old saying that when Fascism comes to America, it will come wrapped in an American flag with a cross. That statement is actually not far off, as Fascism took place in the heart of Christendom, was cherished by Christians (and originally by many Jews as well) established what we know today as the independent Vatican city state, kept prayer in schools, and was the greatest defender of Abrahamic monotheism for it’s time against the rising attacks of secularists (atheists/communists).
Jews were also welcomed as members of the original Fascist party and there was nothing antisemetic about it. Hitler did not found or start Fascism. He perverted and corrupted it. There is no anti-semetism in the Doctrine of Fascism. Most Christians who despise Fascism, have no clue what Fascism is, and many I've talked to in real life do not even know who founded it, or read a single verse of it's very Christian "Doctrine".
It is arguably the Christian Bible where Hitler got most of his fuel for Anti-semitism, as he convinced Fascists that Jews killed Christ and were the enemies of the early Christians. He blamed Jews for all the persecution of Christianity that was killing tens of millions at that time, and declared Joseph Stalin to be “Their little darling”. This was all over the media. This corrupted many Fascists, including eventually Mussolini, which I find to be very sad, but he was a sinful human as we all are, prone to error and deception. But he was no Hitler by any stretch, he originally despised Hitler, and certainly never intended Fascism to go that direction.
I have had people at RF and in real life say such things as “shame on you for being Fascist”. I lost my recent AA sponsor about two weeks over fascism, both of which I’m cool with, I have thick skin and understand why they would say or do that. It makes sense, due to the lack of understanding, but it still seems like they turn the other way when it comes to other Religions and institutions.
For instance, if you think Fascism is shameful, how is it any more shameful than being Christian, Muslim, or Jewish? Christians, Muslims, and Jews have had their wars of aggression, intolerant governments, bigoted oppression of minorities, scandal, slavery, and sin. The Bible is filled with it. So, is the Qur’an, which has less, but is a smaller book with graphic tortures, crucifixions, and amputations in store for enemies of their prophet.
Despite the actions of Fascists, I find the Doctrine of Fascism to be much more peaceful than the Bible and the Koran, and the Religion of Fascism as I know it, to be one of tolerance, patience, and charity towards others, and being stern with oneself, while having Fascist zeal, patriotism, fervor, spirituality, and determination, but not using any other weapon but prayer and spiritual warfare.
It is interior Fascism I'm fond of, not exterior fascism, meaning it is to discipline oneself and not anyone else. It is a war against personal sins, and the sins of others are to be not judged or condemned. I share Fascism and the inspiration drawn from Il Duce with others, which is a form of exterior Fascism, but I'm very skeptic of ever having a Fascist government again, unless the leader was benevolent, anointed, compassionate, charitable, and knew what was overall best for the nation.
The Doctrine of Fascism also condemns selfishness and individualism, and so, the interior fascist makes war with their own human nature that is naturally selfish and individualistic, seeking more what benefits and builds up the nation.
I call Fascist government to be exterior fascism and Fascist Religion to be interior Fascism. The latter is the one I adhere to and helps me more than any other spiritual practice or Religion. I learn courage from the founder who accomplished the impossible, with a rise to power that I find more courageous, intriguing, and providential than any other figure, and he had many god-like qualities that most people could only dream of having. His Doctrine of Fascism is deeply spiritual and in places resembles a Catechism or even Scripture, like it has Divine inspiration.
He was no worse than Israeli Kings in Scripture or “Men after God’s own heart” like King David who commited adultery and had his right hand man killed for it. Or Joshua, whom God ordered to wipe out men, women, innocent children, babies, and animals.
Was Mussolini worse than the God of Abraham, who hardened Pharaoh’s heart, and then slaughtered the first born of Egypt for it, destroyed countless lives with plagues, famine, hunger, the great flood that wiped out far more than 99.9% of humanity and animals, as well as the destruction of women, children, babies, and cities with fire and brimstone from Heaven?
The Doctrine of Fascism is far more peaceful, loving, and gentle in comparison.
God commanded the Israelites to conquer other nations and even commit genocide and destruction of other cultures repeatedly. The story of God’s chosen people and nation, is full of such calls to violence and intolerance of other cultures, beliefs, and (sadly) even other ethnicities, for God had one separate group that he favored with his covenant, his word, and special blessings.
The land promised to Israel had already belonged to others settling there. The promised land was conquered through bloodshed, violence, the destruction of Kingdoms, and the help of God. God also severely punished Jews in Scripture, willing they endure the horrors of slavery for roughly 400 years, as well as Civil war, invasions, and all sorts of chastisements from him. In fact, God was going to destroy all of Israel, but the prayers of Moses “got God to repent”.
So, if you are a lover of the Abrahamic God, or admire "men after God’s own heart" like King David, or approve of God favoring his chosen ethnicity and culture, how can you find much fault in a figure like Mussolini, the founder of Fascism, who was far less guilty of such actions?
The invasion of Ethiopia and Abyssinia destroy this farce.
Samantha Rinne
Resident Genderfluid Writer/Artist
Oh please.
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
"Fascism" is a cover-word, a way of distorting the position another has by turning it into something ugly. The people smeared with that label, for the most part are law-abiding citizens, pay taxes, and are regularly employed. Many of them have done zero marching in protests and not been in any riots. It may not surprise you that I have probably been called a fascist at one point or another. But they are hardly fascists, in fact they voted against fascism. Or tried to anyway.
So let's go over what fascism actually means. Fascism is the idea that the individual are to submit all they have to do their duty to the state and to the wealthy. We had fascism of sorts during the time of Roosevelt, when everyone was told they had to buy war bonds and "do their part" to win the war. And this was a milder version, much of Europe had this way worse. Socialism by the way is a distinction without a difference, the idea that the individual are to submit all they have to do their duty to the state and to the poor. Yeah, I know, totally different. The antidote to fascism is genuine libertarianism, small government. Not mobs of goons in black clothes, imposing law by force.
The costumes only change. The bullying behavior doesn't.
Secondly, and more importantly, comparing a political system to a religious one is an apples to oranges comparison. It's absurd, it's on the level of asking "are mimes better than florists?" What do the two have to do with each other except to someone who creates an arbitrary link between the two?
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
"Fascism" is a cover-word, a way of distorting the position another has by turning it into something ugly. The people smeared with that label, for the most part are law-abiding citizens, pay taxes, and are regularly employed. Many of them have done zero marching in protests and not been in any riots. It may not surprise you that I have probably been called a fascist at one point or another. But they are hardly fascists, in fact they voted against fascism. Or tried to anyway.
So let's go over what fascism actually means. Fascism is the idea that the individual are to submit all they have to do their duty to the state and to the wealthy. We had fascism of sorts during the time of Roosevelt, when everyone was told they had to buy war bonds and "do their part" to win the war. And this was a milder version, much of Europe had this way worse. Socialism by the way is a distinction without a difference, the idea that the individual are to submit all they have to do their duty to the state and to the poor. Yeah, I know, totally different. The antidote to fascism is genuine libertarianism, small government. Not mobs of goons in black clothes, imposing law by force.
The costumes only change. The bullying behavior doesn't.
Secondly, and more importantly, comparing a political system to a religious one is an apples to oranges comparison. It's absurd, it's on the level of asking "are mimes better than florists?" What do the two have to do with each other except to someone who creates an arbitrary link between the two?
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Spiderman
Veteran Member
I like your post and agree with much of it, but I've thoroughly studied fascism, and the doctrine of fascism is deeply spiritual.Oh please.
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
"Fascism" is a cover-word, a way of distorting the position another has by turning it into something ugly. The people smeared with that label, for the most part are law-abiding citizens, pay taxes, and are regularly employed. Many of them have done zero marching in protests and not been in any riots. It may not surprise you that I have probably been called a fascist at one point or another. But they are hardly fascists, in fact they voted against fascism. Or tried to anyway.
So let's go over what fascism actually means. Fascism is the idea that the individual are to submit all they have to do their duty to the state and to the wealthy. We had fascism of sorts during the time of Roosevelt, when everyone was told they had to buy war bonds and "do their part" to win the war. And this was a milder version, much of Europe had this way worse. Socialism by the way is a distinction without a difference, the idea that the individual are to submit all they have to do their duty to the state and to the poor. Yeah, I know, totally different. The antidote to fascism is genuine libertarianism, small government. Not mobs of goons in black clothes, imposing law by force.
The costumes only change. The bullying behavior doesn't.
Secondly, and more importantly, comparing a political system to a religious one is an apples to oranges comparison. It's absurd, it's on the level of asking "are mimes better than florists?" What do the two have to do with each other except to someone who creates an arbitrary link between the two?
Mussolini did not just say "fascism is a religious concept", he declared that "fascism is a religion."
He used the state to do what he believed would protect people from liberty's that can be dangerous and lead to vice/sin that only enslaves people, making them less free in the end.
Mussolini enforced biblical morality so much, that he made swearing in public a crime. He allowed no pornography or entertainment that could corrupt innocence and stir up lust. Films and plays could not have swearing, blasphemy, imodesty, or promote what we see in today's entertainment industry.
The divorce rate in fascist Italy was tiny. Families stayed together and prayed together. schools had crucifixes on the walls , and the children prayed. There was no STD epidemic, few unwanted pregnancies, low suicide rate, no school shootings, no legal abortions, few unwanted pregnancies, no promoting homosexuality,and the state was supposed to be like a mother, protecting her children from freedom that can do more harm than good.
Responsible parents discipline their children and don't give them freedom to do much of what their their heart desires.
The fascist state was stepping in to limit certain liberties to crush the rise of secularism, that was sweeping throughout the world at that time, with bloody revolutions, torturing and killing countless millions of those whose loyalty was to God.
You are mistaken. Fascism is a religion, because its founder declared it to be, and his book "The Doctrine of fascism" is the soul of what fascism is, and it is deeply religious, spiritual, and calling all fascists to live a Religious life, to defend religion, and fight secularism. The Doctrine of fascism is less political and more religious. Much is about what the state can do to keep people healthy spiritually.
His doctrine states that the soul only reaches true perfection when the body dies.
Fascism condemns selfishness, individualism, laziness, lust, foul language, adultery, pornography, homosexual acts, blasphemy, covetousness, gluttony, cowardice, and disbelief in God, all of which the Bible condemns.
Fascism contains Theology, philosophy, religious traditions, Dogmas, Doctrines, and a sacred text which declares the life of a fascist is a religious one, and goes on to glorify the asceticism of the saints.
Mussolini went on to work with the Pope, give the pope an independent Vatican state, and pay the Pope reparations for what taly did to the papal states.
Christians, including the Pope, were very drawn to what fascism was because of it's religious nature. Pope Pius XI said, "God has given us Mussolini."
Pope, why do you need to say 'I am this, I am that' with these things? Over the years, forum members here have seen you have phases where you are especially inspired by Aghori Hinduism, Shintoism, Shamanism, praying to murder-victims, now fascism, and probably some others I'm missing. What you seem to be looking for in all of these is a kind of structure to support you in trying to be good, to do good, to live a wholesome life and to connect with God and with spirits and ancestors and so on.
You are really trying in life, and you go at it with enthusiasm, and so to be honest you're probably doing alright anyway, but all I would suggest is perhaps try and bring a little more focus on those fundamentals, regardless of the trappings.
By which I mean, what is it you are wanting, what is the yearning which makes you get into fascism/shintoism/shamanism/etc in the first place - that is what is permanent and important, and what is beautiful about who you are. Sure, a structure is useful, perhaps even necessary, but remember it is just a structure which is more or less useful in accommodating and manifesting that yearning you have in the first place.
You are really trying in life, and you go at it with enthusiasm, and so to be honest you're probably doing alright anyway, but all I would suggest is perhaps try and bring a little more focus on those fundamentals, regardless of the trappings.
By which I mean, what is it you are wanting, what is the yearning which makes you get into fascism/shintoism/shamanism/etc in the first place - that is what is permanent and important, and what is beautiful about who you are. Sure, a structure is useful, perhaps even necessary, but remember it is just a structure which is more or less useful in accommodating and manifesting that yearning you have in the first place.
Jim
Nets of Wonder
Sometimes I don’t know if you’re serious or if you’re clowning, or maybe both. Are you seriously thinking of “fascism” as the best name for your current philosophy and way of life? Are there stories that I could read, to help me understand better what this is all about for you?How can you say it is any more shameful to be adhering to Fascism than to adhere to Abrahamic Monotheism?
The founder of Fascismdeclared Fascism to be a Religion.
It is essentially a very patriotic version of Christianity. There is an old saying that when Fascism comes to America, it will come wrapped in an American flag with a cross. That statement is actually not far off, as Fascism took place in the heart of Christendom, was cherished by Christians (and originally by many Jews as well) established what we know today as the independent Vatican city state, kept prayer in schools, and was the greatest defender of Abrahamic monotheism for it’s time against the rising attacks of secularists (atheists/communists).
Jews were also welcomed as members of the original Fascist party and there was nothing antisemetic about it. Hitler did not found or start Fascism. He perverted and corrupted it. There is no anti-semetism in the Doctrine of Fascism. Most Christians who despise Fascism, have no clue what Fascism is, and many I've talked to in real life do not even know who founded it, or read a single verse of it's very Christian "Doctrine".
It is arguably the Christian Bible where Hitler got most of his fuel for Anti-semitism, as he convinced Fascists that Jews killed Christ and were the enemies of the early Christians. He blamed Jews for all the persecution of Christianity that was killing tens of millions at that time, and declared Joseph Stalin to be “Their little darling”. This was all over the media. This corrupted many Fascists, including eventually Mussolini, which I find to be very sad, but he was a sinful human as we all are, prone to error and deception. But he was no Hitler by any stretch, he originally despised Hitler, and certainly never intended Fascism to go that direction.
I have had people at RF and in real life say such things as “shame on you for being Fascist”. I lost my recent AA sponsor about two weeks over fascism, both of which I’m cool with, I have thick skin and understand why they would say or do that. It makes sense, due to the lack of understanding, but it still seems like they turn the other way when it comes to other Religions and institutions.
For instance, if you think Fascism is shameful, how is it any more shameful than being Christian, Muslim, or Jewish? Christians, Muslims, and Jews have had their wars of aggression, intolerant governments, bigoted oppression of minorities, scandal, slavery, and sin. The Bible is filled with it. So, is the Qur’an, which has less, but is a smaller book with graphic tortures, crucifixions, and amputations in store for enemies of their prophet.
Despite the actions of Fascists, I find the Doctrine of Fascism to be much more peaceful than the Bible and the Koran, and the Religion of Fascism as I know it, to be one of tolerance, patience, and charity towards others, and being stern with oneself, while having Fascist zeal, patriotism, fervor, spirituality, and determination, but not using any other weapon but prayer and spiritual warfare.
It is interior Fascism I'm fond of, not exterior fascism, meaning it is to discipline oneself and not anyone else. It is a war against personal sins, and the sins of others are to be not judged or condemned. I share Fascism and the inspiration drawn from Il Duce with others, which is a form of exterior Fascism, but I'm very skeptic of ever having a Fascist government again, unless the leader was benevolent, anointed, compassionate, charitable, and knew what was overall best for the nation.
The Doctrine of Fascism also condemns selfishness and individualism, and so, the interior fascist makes war with their own human nature that is naturally selfish and individualistic, seeking more what benefits and builds up the nation.
I call Fascist government to be exterior fascism and Fascist Religion to be interior Fascism. The latter is the one I adhere to and helps me more than any other spiritual practice or Religion. I learn courage from the founder who accomplished the impossible, with a rise to power that I find more courageous, intriguing, and providential than any other figure, and he had many god-like qualities that most people could only dream of having. His Doctrine of Fascism is deeply spiritual and in places resembles a Catechism or even Scripture, like it has Divine inspiration.
He was no worse than Israeli Kings in Scripture or “Men after God’s own heart” like King David who commited adultery and had his right hand man killed for it. Or Joshua, whom God ordered to wipe out men, women, innocent children, babies, and animals.
Was Mussolini worse than the God of Abraham, who hardened Pharaoh’s heart, and then slaughtered the first born of Egypt for it, destroyed countless lives with plagues, famine, hunger, the great flood that wiped out far more than 99.9% of humanity and animals, as well as the destruction of women, children, babies, and cities with fire and brimstone from Heaven?
The Doctrine of Fascism is far more peaceful, loving, and gentle in comparison.
God commanded the Israelites to conquer other nations and even commit genocide and destruction of other cultures repeatedly. The story of God’s chosen people and nation, is full of such calls to violence and intolerance of other cultures, beliefs, and (sadly) even other ethnicities, for God had one separate group that he favored with his covenant, his word, and special blessings.
The land promised to Israel had already belonged to others settling there. The promised land was conquered through bloodshed, violence, the destruction of Kingdoms, and the help of God. God also severely punished Jews in Scripture, willing they endure the horrors of slavery for roughly 400 years, as well as Civil war, invasions, and all sorts of chastisements from him. In fact, God was going to destroy all of Israel, but the prayers of Moses “got God to repent”.
So, if you are a lover of the Abrahamic God, or admire "men after God’s own heart" like King David, or approve of God favoring his chosen ethnicity and culture, how can you find much fault in a figure like Mussolini, the founder of Fascism, who was far less guilty of such actions?
Spiderman
Veteran Member
I draw inspiration from the Aghori but never claimed to be one. Yes, I practice Shamanism, Shintoism, and still do pray to murder victims and war dead. I'm more devoted at any given time to the forces which I find to be most helpful.
Right now I identify as fascist, because I draw much strength and inspiration from the author of fascism and the doctrine. I believe he loved his country almost more than any current politician on earth.
He had many sides to him, and he is demonized, when in fact he's no worse than the average guy, were they to have that position.
He did a colossal amount of good for his country during the two-decade rain over Italy. He also did a lot for Christianity and the Pope.
I hate to see him be only associated with skinheads, Nazis, bigots, anti-semites, and idiots! So, I'm willing to sacrifice my reputation and identify as fascist and suffer the consequences.
I see people as being ignorant of fascism, and use it as such an ugly word. I see Mussoli possibly second most hated person in history. It is too unjust!
Spiderman
Veteran Member
The fascism I'm speaking of is an interior fascism where one is a fascist with themself, and uproots all unhealthy vices.
The Doctrine of Fascism inspires me and has many good qualities. It is deeply spiritual and religious. I hate some of what Mussolini did, but I think the average man would have sided with Hitler were they in his position.
Fascism actually did a lot of good for Italy for nearly two decades. The alliance with Hitler is what made it become ugly.
Fascism itself is not about that.