Is gay still gay?

[Wirey]

Quite a few years ago before I turned 25, and was therefore an idiot about real life, I worked in a factory that made concrete products. It was a horrible job with the small benefit of a couple of interesting coworkers. One, named Ben, was a Holocaust survivor. He got liberated by the Yanks when he was 8 or 9, but as you can imagine he had some unpleasant memories. I, being a history nut, drove him pretty much up the wall asking questions (see idiot comment above) about life in a concentration camp, but he was pretty good about it. He didn’t really get into detail, but once he allowed that he had watched his sister die. I pretty much dropped it after that.
Anyway, there was a guy in the office named Terry, and Terry had the worst kept secret on earth. He was gay. He and his boyfriend weren’t exactly hiding it, if you know what I mean. To be honest, I didn’t really care what they did. But, I was still playing ball and I worked in industry and we all had to be manly men. Football! Boobies! Most of the guys here probably know exactly what I was talking about.
One day we were fixing a busted forklift right at lunch time. It had broken down just outside the main office doors and a few of the guys stopped on their way to the lunchroom to chat. One of them was Ben. While we’re chatting, who walks out but Terry, carrying a little bag we used to use for sending parts to trucks at other locations. Being a real funny guy, I made some lame purse joke in a falsetto voice. Everyone laughed, because, you know. Gay! To be clear, there’s no way Terry could have heard me. Hell, the Bionic Woman couldn’t have heard me. But Ben heard me.
He got really upset and said “You know what? You’re a bunch of ******** (he didn’t say ********, he actually said ********). Do you keep a poster with you so you can pick out the Jews by their noses?” I don’t think anyone else knew what he meant, but I did. I apologized to him about it, and he said okay, but we weren’t friends anymore after that. And I know this sounds like bullpucky, but I apologized to Terry too. He wasn’t as okay. I’ve never made fun of a gay man for being gay since, except Tom Cruise. I hate how much better looking than me he is.
Now, I work with another gay guy. His name is Bruce (hand to God). I told him this story and he said “I wish someone would make fun of me! I used to be so different because I was a queer, but now no one cares. It’s as exciting as having brown hair.” I paraphrased that, but it’s what he said.
Has being gay become mainstream? Is being gay no longer an outsider activity?

 

[columbus]

People have to learn not to be evil. You're better than Osama binLaden.

Tell Bruce he is an idiot for me if you think of it.

Tom

 

[Revoltingest]

Gay is the new Wonder Bread.

 

[columbus]

Gay is the new Wonder Bread.

No, gay is the new black.

Tom

 

[Twilight Hue]

I just thought it meant happy at one time.

 

[BSM1]

Gay is the new Wonder Bread.

Some of my best friends are Bread :yes:.

 

[columbus]

I just thought it meant happy at one time.

It did, at one time. I'd have guessed you were around during the last 50 years. But on the internet who knows?

Tom

 

[Twilight Hue]

It did, at one time. I'd have guessed you were around during the last 50 years. But on the internet who knows?

Tom

Trust me. Im old enough to remember. A little too old.

Gay had no connection whatsoever with homosexuality. Still wonder what happened there. It used to be a very good word as it were.


Keep it gay keep it gay keep it gay! :drunk:

 

[dust1n]

I suppose it depends on the particular person's experiences arise from, Wirey.

I don't think a gay teenager in San Francisco really has to worry much about discrimination anymore, at least not to the same extent as 40 years ago, or whatever.

A gay teenager in Sudan probably has many more struggles.

Whose to say?

 

[columbus]

Trust me. Im old enough to remember. A little too old.

Gay had no connection whatsoever with homosexuality. Still wonder what happened there. It used to be a very good word as it were.


Keep it gay keep it gay keep it gay! :drunk:

That's easy. As homosexual people started adopting western values like personal freedom and religious liberty they changed. Instead of being forced to choose between unhappy marriage of convenience, miserable solitude, and suicide, they started being happy.

Voilà. Gay becomes a code word for homosexual.

Tom

 

[oldbadger]

That's easy. As homosexual people started adopting western values like personal freedom and religious liberty they changed. Instead of being forced to choose between unhappy marriage of convenience, miserable solitude, and suicide, they started being happy.

Voilà. Gay becomes a code word for homosexual.

Tom

Well, there you go..... I learned something..... had no idea about that.

When I was young (50's), gay meant happy.

When I went to boarding school, homosexuals were split up into two groups. They were called queers and lushes. One of the first questions I got asked by a crowd of senior boys was 'Are you a lush or a queer?' and because I had no idea what they were talking about they chucked me in a linen basket and tossed me down the main stairs (very long, very steep). I think it was the mass of pillow cases and sheets inside that basket that saved my neck and spine.

I knew a bloke (in the 80's) who, as a kid in the 50's was fiercely bullied at school. He soon discovered that if he was 'nice' to the bigger boys that he got protected. He focused so closely upon their sexual needs that he became massively popular. Something clicked somewhere inside and he never stopped. He became a rent boy in London, and eventually an International Bank Director took a massive fancy to him and took him to his non-family home in Holland. He ran away with that man's daughter and married her. They have a daughter and three boys, now in their 30's and 40's..... but he is still obsessed with very young males, about the same age as those senior boys who once protected him. I think twice now before screaming hatred at anybody in connection with 'sex', sex orientation or even sex-crime.

Makes you think......

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Trust me. Im old enough to remember. A little too old.

Gay had no connection whatsoever with homosexuality. Still wonder what happened there. It used to be a very good word as it were.

Gay - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[JayJayDee]

Has being gay become mainstream? Is being gay no longer an outsider activity?

Acceptance of the gay/lesbian lifestyle has become widespread as Christianity has become lax in its teachings, watering down the word of God to suit the lifestyle of individuals who have chosen to follow their aberrant fleshly desires.

Please don't get me wrong, I have no issue with the fact that some people are born with their 'wiring' wrong. I understand that they can't help being attracted to the wrong sex when that attraction is strong.

But putting that into perspective, do we have the same attitude towards pedophiles? Can we envision pedophilia becoming an accepted lifestyle choice among people who also "can't help" their natural sexual attractions?

Just because something appears to be "natural" for someone, doesn't make the practise of it "right".

The world can accept all sorts of different lifestyle choices and justify them...the world is welcome to do that and it is actually expected to do that. (1 John 2:15-17; 5:19)

But for those who claim to worship the God of the Bible, there is a problem, not with the homosexual as such (human imperfection manifests in many different ways, some manifestations are very socially unacceptable.)
The problem for Christians is that the Bible roundly condemns the practice of homosexuality. It is not the person, but the practice that makes the difference.

No one can "cure" a homosexual. It isn't a disease, it is a fault in the wiring.

Homosexuals who want to be Christians can deny the Biblical injunctions and pretend that they can be "homosexual Christians" but the Bible argues with them. At the end of the day, it is those who consider themselves "Christians" but who fail to "do the will of the Father" who will not fare well on judgment day. (Matt 7:21-23) Jesus indicated that this would be the case with "many" who claim him as their "Lord". He tells them that 'he never knew them' and that they are 'workers of lawlessness' as far as he is concerned.

"Or do you not know that unrighteous people will not inherit God’s Kingdom? Do not be misled. Those who are sexually immoral, idolaters, adulterers, men who submit to homosexual acts, men who practice homosexuality, 10 thieves, greedy people, drunkards, revilers, and extortioners will not inherit God’s Kingdom. 11 And yet that is what some of you were. But you have been washed clean; you have been sanctified; you have been declared righteous in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and with the spirit of our God." (1 Cor 6:9-11)

So you see, when the apostle Paul spoke of those who would be denied entry into the kingdom arrangement, he warned people not to be "misled". He mentioned homosexual practice specifically and said "that is what some of you were, but you have been washed clean"....one can leave homosexual practice and become a Christian, but you cannot be a Christian if you are still involved with homosexual acts. These make one spiritually and morally "unclean" in God's eyes.

No matter what the world says....God's word should be more important to those who sincerely want to please God.

Giving up sex is not life threatening...it is a sacrifice made because one loves God more than they love themselves and the dictates of their own flesh.

There is no way to blur the lines.....

 

[oldbadger]

But putting that into perspective, do we have the same attitude towards pedophiles?

We need to support research into pedophilia with a view to seeing if anything can be done to reduce, deter, minimise or provide a way out of it.

Giving up sex is not life threatening...it is a sacrifice made because one loves God more than they love themselves and the dictates of their own flesh.

There is no way to blur the lines.....

What is the official JW advice towards married couples about sex? Is there guidance about how sexual intercourse should be conducted? Or how often? Is there contraception advice? What is the minimum age for marriage? Is there an age-range or age variation range in partners?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Acceptance of the gay/lesbian lifestyle has become widespread as Christianity has become lax in its teachings, watering down the word of God to suit the lifestyle of individuals who have chosen to follow their aberrant fleshly desires.

Please don't get me wrong, I have no issue with the fact that some people are born with their 'wiring' wrong. I understand that they can't help being attracted to the wrong sex when that attraction is strong.

But putting that into perspective, do we have the same attitude towards pedophiles? Can we envision pedophilia becoming an accepted lifestyle choice among people who also "can't help" their natural sexual attractions?

Just because something appears to be "natural" for someone, doesn't make the practise of it "right".

The world can accept all sorts of different lifestyle choices and justify them...the world is welcome to do that and it is actually expected to do that. (1 John 2:15-17; 5:19)

But for those who claim to worship the God of the Bible, there is a problem, not with the homosexual as such (human imperfection manifests in many different ways, some manifestations are very socially unacceptable.)
The problem for Christians is that the Bible roundly condemns the practice of homosexuality. It is not the person, but the practice that makes the difference.

No one can "cure" a homosexual. It isn't a disease, it is a fault in the wiring.

Homosexuals who want to be Christians can deny the Biblical injunctions and pretend that they can be "homosexual Christians" but the Bible argues with them. At the end of the day, it is those who consider themselves "Christians" but who fail to "do the will of the Father" who will not fare well on judgment day. (Matt 7:21-23) Jesus indicated that this would be the case with "many" who claim him as their "Lord". He tells them that 'he never knew them' and that they are 'workers of lawlessness' as far as he is concerned.

"Or do you not know that unrighteous people will not inherit God’s Kingdom? Do not be misled. Those who are sexually immoral, idolaters, adulterers, men who submit to homosexual acts, men who practice homosexuality, 10 thieves, greedy people, drunkards, revilers, and extortioners will not inherit God’s Kingdom. 11 And yet that is what some of you were. But you have been washed clean; you have been sanctified; you have been declared righteous in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and with the spirit of our God." (1 Cor 6:9-11)

So you see, when the apostle Paul spoke of those who would be denied entry into the kingdom arrangement, he warned people not to be "misled". He mentioned homosexual practice specifically and said "that is what some of you were, but you have been washed clean"....one can leave homosexual practice and become a Christian, but you cannot be a Christian if you are still involved with homosexual acts. These make one spiritually and morally "unclean" in God's eyes.

No matter what the world says....God's word should be more important to those who sincerely want to please God.

Giving up sex is not life threatening...it is a sacrifice made because one loves God more than they love themselves and the dictates of their own flesh.

There is no way to blur the lines.....

Drivel. It's so easy for a hetero to demand that gays, lesbians and bisexuals be celibate or suppress their homosexuality and then make it out to be that it's not that horrible to live without sex. How would you like it if someone told you that you should be sentenced to a life without romance and intimacy simply because of the gender you're attracted to? I bet you wouldn't like it so much.

 

[JayJayDee]

We need to support research into pedophilia with a view to seeing if anything can be done to reduce, deter, minimise or provide a way out of it.

We had a convicted pedophile in our congregation who was contacted in jail serving a sentence because he was convicted of having sex with very young girls. As he learned more about God's laws on sexual crime, he sought help through prayer and continued his Bible studies in jail. On several occasions he was before the parole board and asked if he still had those inclinations. Because of his Bible study, he told the truth and said that he still had those desires but that he was learning to control them with God's help. Because he was truthful, they did not grant parole, but kept him behind bars where he continued to learn more about God until he had paid his debt.

Towards the end of his sentence, he was released for a day in order to be baptised and upon his final release, became a member in good standing of our congregation. He admitted that he had a daily struggle, but with God's help and keeping busy in the ministry, he was able to overcome his weakness. He was never to be alone with young females. He welcomed the assistance.

What is the official JW advice towards married couples about sex? Is there guidance about how sexual intercourse should be conducted?

No one can dictate to a married couple what they do behind closed doors, but we are fully aware that nothing we do is hidden from Jehovah. He is the judge of those things. If a sexual practise is perverted, (that is one contrary to nature) then that is for the couple to decide. Their own Bible trained conscience will be their guide. If they violate their conscience, God will know.

Or how often?

Nobody's business.

Is there contraception advice?

There is no mandate in the Bible to have children. Multiple methods of contraception are a fairly modern thing. Although ancient forms were still practised no doubt. We would not use methods that abort a foetus once conception has taken place, but have no problems with those that prevent conception.
Some use Onan's withdrawal of semen to provide a heir for his brother to be a condemnation of contraception, but he was failing in a duty required of him under Israel's law.

To have more children than one can care for is unscriptural. (1 Tim 5:8)

What is the minimum age for marriage?

That is usually dictated more by the laws of the land. There is no age stipulated in the Bible. Though the recommendation is to be "past the bloom of youth" when sexual desire is at its peak and decisions made may be way more fleshly than spiritual. The choice of a life partner should be made by mature people....there is no grounds for divorce simply because you choose unwisely.

Some who choose to marry young in order to satisfy their sexual urges often live to regret it. The physical aspects of marriage should be secondary to the spiritual aspects.

Is there an age-range or age variation range in partners?

No. We have very little in the way of man-made rules, except the big one...NO sex before marriage. Fornication is a disfellowshipping offence, as is adultery. These are God's rules, not ours. Marriage and divorce are so common nowadays that marriage has lost its true meaning.

All our decisions are made according to the principles laid out in God's word.

 

[JayJayDee]

Drivel. It's so easy for a hetero to demand that gays, lesbians and bisexuals be celibate or suppress their homosexuality and then make it out to be that it's not that horrible to live without sex.

How would you like it if someone told you that you should be sentenced to a life without romance and intimacy simply because of the gender you're attracted to? I bet you wouldn't like it so much.

I have been without a partner now for many years. After a very long illness, my husband passed away and we only buried him last week. I know what it means to live without intimacy for a long time. It was hard, but it wasn't life threatening. Keeping busy in God's work takes your mind off the things you don't have. Helping others is the best way to help yourself.

Trying to justify homosexuality has become an art form among those who demand their cake and eat it too.

Christianity demands sacrifice....if you love yourself more than you love God, your choices and justification are all the more easy.

I am sorry that your life has been so hard. So much of it is not your fault. But now that you have abandoned Catholicism in favor of devil worship again, perhaps it is this inability to decide who you are and what you really believe that keeps you imprisoned?

"So if any one of you is lacking in wisdom, let him keep asking God, for he gives generously to all and without reproaching, and it will be given him. 6 But let him keep asking in faith, not doubting at all, for the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea driven by the wind and blown about. 7 In fact, that man should not expect to receive anything from Jehovah; 8 he is an indecisive man, unsteady in all his ways." (James 1:5-8)

Making firm decisions is vital. Having a willing spirit to do things God's way will allow his spirit to help you. God does not reproach those who want to do the right thing.

Continually changing your mind (and changing your god) is creating so much heartache for you.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I have been without a partner now for many years. After a very long illness, my husband passed away and we only buried him last week. I know what it means to live without intimacy for a long time. It was hard, but it wasn't life threatening. Keeping busy in God's work takes your mind off the things you don't have. Helping others is the best way to help yourself.

Trying to justify homosexuality has become an art form among those who demand their cake and eat it too.

Christianity demands sacrifice....if you love yourself more than you love God, your choices and justification are all the more easy.

I am sorry that your life has been so hard. So much of it is not your fault. But now that you have abandoned Catholicism in favor of devil worship again, perhaps it is this inability to decide who you are and what you really believe that keeps you imprisoned?

"So if any one of you is lacking in wisdom, let him keep asking God, for he gives generously to all and without reproaching, and it will be given him. 6 But let him keep asking in faith, not doubting at all, for the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea driven by the wind and blown about. 7 In fact, that man should not expect to receive anything from Jehovah; 8 he is an indecisive man, unsteady in all his ways." (James 1:5-8)

Making firm decisions is vital. Having a willing spirit to do things God's way will allow his spirit to help you. God does not reproach those who want to do the right thing.

Continually changing your mind (and changing your god) is creating so much heartache for you.

Stop with your passive aggressiveness. I'm sick of your insulting attitude. Pegg isn't continually rude as you are to me, so stop it. I disagree with her but there's no reason to be mean about it. Don't try to turn this around on me. We're talking about homosexuality, not my personal beliefs.

You said you were married. So you got to experience love, romance and intimacy. I'm guessing that JWs are allowed to remarry. But you say that gay and lesbian people should deny themselves of that for their entire life. In other words, they should remain virgins for life. How is that even close to being the same?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Well, there you go..... I learned something..... had no idea about that.

When I was young (50's), gay meant happy.

When I went to boarding school, homosexuals were split up into two groups. They were called queers and lushes. One of the first questions I got asked by a crowd of senior boys was 'Are you a lush or a queer?' and because I had no idea what they were talking about they chucked me in a linen basket and tossed me down the main stairs (very long, very steep). I think it was the mass of pillow cases and sheets inside that basket that saved my neck and spine.

I knew a bloke (in the 80's) who, as a kid in the 50's was fiercely bullied at school. He soon discovered that if he was 'nice' to the bigger boys that he got protected. He focused so closely upon their sexual needs that he became massively popular. Something clicked somewhere inside and he never stopped. He became a rent boy in London, and eventually an International Bank Director took a massive fancy to him and took him to his non-family home in Holland. He ran away with that man's daughter and married her. They have a daughter and three boys, now in their 30's and 40's..... but he is still obsessed with very young males, about the same age as those senior boys who once protected him. I think twice now before screaming hatred at anybody in connection with 'sex', sex orientation or even sex-crime.

Makes you think......

I always understood "lush" as slang for a drunkard: Urban Dictionary: lush

Anyway, those sound like horrible experiences. The British boarding school system was really f'ed up!

 

[Penumbra]

The relationship between Christianity and homosexuality is mostly arbitrary.

Anti-LGBT Christians generally ignore most of the 600+ OT rules and yet still suppose that homosexuality is some special problem that people have to avoid, while they go along and happily break any number of other rules in the same set of books. Even in the NT, Jesus said more against rich folk than he ever said about homosexuality.

To the extent that homosexuality is still discriminated against, I think it's still a problem of widespread ignorance and bigotry relating to the subject instead of due to some objective teaching of the religion itself.