Is God a Mystery that Will Never be Solved?

[Thief]

The afterlife is neither here nor there, if there is one at all. All you know for sure is that you are here, now, so live fully now, and the future will take care of itself. If you are a Christian, you will have listened to Yeshua's words in the parable of the Lilies of the Field, where he instructed people to 'not worry about the 'morrow':

Matthew 6:25-34
25 Therefore I say unto you, Be not anxious for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than the food, and the body than the raiment? 26 Behold the birds of the heaven, that they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; and your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are not ye of much more value than they? 27 And which of you by being anxious can add one cubit unto a]">[a]the measure of his life? 28 And why are ye anxious concerning raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin: 29 yet I say unto you, that even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. 30 But if God doth so clothe the grass of the field, which to-day is, and to-morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith? 31 Be not therefore anxious, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed? 32 For after all these things do the Gentiles seek; for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things. 33 But seek ye first his kingdom, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you. 34 Be not therefore anxious for the morrow: for the morrow will be anxious for itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.

IOW: 'BE HERE NOW'

I know the drill......
almost became a priest because of it.....

oh!.....but THAT would be another person!
and you don't believe in being a person

you're just a drop.......or drip.....or something......or nothing......

 

[Thief]

The afterlife is neither here nor there, if there is one at all. All you know for sure is that you are here, now, so live fully now, and the future will take care of itself. If you are a Christian, you will have listened to Yeshua's words in the parable of the Lilies of the Field, where he instructed people to 'not worry about the 'morrow':

Matthew 6:25-34
25 Therefore I say unto you, Be not anxious for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than the food, and the body than the raiment? 26 Behold the birds of the heaven, that they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; and your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are not ye of much more value than they? 27 And which of you by being anxious can add one cubit unto a]">[a]the measure of his life? 28 And why are ye anxious concerning raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin: 29 yet I say unto you, that even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. 30 But if God doth so clothe the grass of the field, which to-day is, and to-morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith? 31 Be not therefore anxious, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed? 32 For after all these things do the Gentiles seek; for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things. 33 But seek ye first his kingdom, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you. 34 Be not therefore anxious for the morrow: for the morrow will be anxious for itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.

IOW: 'BE HERE NOW'

I know the drill......
almost became a priest because of it.....

oh!.....but THAT would be another person!
and you don't believe in being a person

you're just a drop.......or drip.....or something......or nothing......

 

[Trailblazer]

The afterlife is neither here nor there, if there is one at all. All you know for sure is that you are here, now, so live fully now, and the future will take care of itself. If you are a Christian, you will have listened to Yeshua's words in the parable of the Lilies of the Field, where he instructed people to 'not worry about the 'morrow':

Matthew 6:25-34
25 Therefore I say unto you, Be not anxious for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than the food, and the body than the raiment? 26 Behold the birds of the heaven, that they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; and your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are not ye of much more value than they? 27 And which of you by being anxious can add one cubit unto a]">[a]the measure of his life? 28 And why are ye anxious concerning raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin: 29 yet I say unto you, that even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. 30 But if God doth so clothe the grass of the field, which to-day is, and to-morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith? 31 Be not therefore anxious, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed? 32 For after all these things do the Gentiles seek; for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things. 33 But seek ye first his kingdom, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you. 34 Be not therefore anxious for the morrow: for the morrow will be anxious for itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.

IOW: 'BE HERE NOW'

Be here now is not the main message I got out of these verses. The main message I got from them is that life is about more than food and raiment... What I got is that we should first seek the Kingdom of God, and that we should not live for the worldly things.

What you said is also true, that Jesus is saying not to worry, but I think the *reason* He said not to worry is because the worldly things do not matter that much and they will take case of themselves...That is the hidden message within the message, Imo.

 

[dfnj]

These verses are impossible to understand. We need a religion based on Twitter like posts.

 

[Frater Sisyphus]

It depends what concept of "God" we are talking about to begin with, as there are several different major conceptions for what "God" as a thing or a being, might be.

In many big religions, "God" tends to be the ultimate being in the universe that either has (or hasn't) intervention in our world outside of creating it.

I personally see "God" as another name for the universe and matter/energy itself.


I think the answer to the question depends on the interpretation, to begin with.

 

[Jumi]

If you want to share your mystical experience feel free to... I love stories. I know a lot of people who have had mystical experiences but I have not really had any that I could call mystical. I did have a spiritual experience once though, in June 2014, and my life has never been the same since. Before that, I believed God existed, but I never really believed *in God.* Now I am in for the long haul...

There's not much of a story to tell there, sadly. I feel like describing it in detail is talking out things from my limited human perspective. I like to think of it as a feeling of entering a holy place uplifting and intuitively knowing things at the same time that can't be described easily by words. Although I'm not sure how useful it is from human perspective I have the complete feeling that this is God. I try not to put more attributes to it than I've experienced.

I belong to a religion but I do not consider myself religious because I am a nonparticipant for the most part... I simply believe in the teachings and core principles of the religion, wholeheartedly. However, I tend to do my own thing, I always have.

I understand, that's a good way to take things.

 

[Jumi]

These verses are impossible to understand. We need a religion based on Twitter like posts.

Ha! Covfefeism?

 

[godnotgod]

Be here now is not the main message I got out of these verses. The main message I got from them is that life is about more than food and raiment... What I got is that we should first seek the Kingdom of God, and that we should not live for the worldly things.

What you said is also true, that Jesus is saying not to worry, but I think the *reason* He said not to worry is because the worldly things do not matter that much and they will take case of themselves...That is the hidden message within the message, Imo.

There is no 'hidden message' in the verse. It is plain and clear. Why do Christians always think that God is speaking to them in some secret code?

"Rrrrrroger, that!"

You cannot know that life is about more than food and raiment; that you should not live for worldly things, until you are mindfully in the present moment. Most people are not here, now. Their minds are dwelling in the past or looking to some future reward, and not paying attention to what is.

Instead of having both eyes on the path, they have one eye on the path, and the other on the goal, concerned about what they will 'get'. To have both eyes on the path requires us to be here, now; to pay attention.

Being here now reveals to us that we already have what we need:

'The Kingdom of God is within you'

Seeking material gratification is desire, and it is desire that leads us astray. Desire keeps us looking to the past or the future, instead of being here, now.

Truly, “Only he that rids himself forever of desire can see the Secret Essences”;
He that has never rid himself of desire can see only the Outcomes.
These two things issued from the same mould, but nevertheless are different in name.
This “same mould” we can but call the Mystery,
Or rather the “Darker than any Mystery,”
The Doorway whence issued all Secret Essences

Tao te Ching, Ch 1, trans Waley

Lao Tzu: "Tao Te Ching" (170+ translations of Chapter 1)

 

[godnotgod]

I know the drill......
almost became a priest because of it.....

oh!.....but THAT would be another person!
and you don't believe in being a person

you're just a drop.......or drip.....or something......or nothing......

We all are nothing, and because we are nothing, we are Everything. But nothing dons a mask and plays a character it eventually thinks is real, even, or especially, the character of a priest...or maybe a thief.

If you regard the teaching as a drill, then you are further away from understanding than you think.

'Yeah, yeah, yeah....I know all about it...blah blah blah'...'bin der...dun dat'...'ho..hum'

The ego thinks it knows something.

Take a closer look.

 

[godnotgod]

I personally see "God" as another name for the universe and matter/energy itself.

Then you are God as well, as you are not separate in any way from The Universe.

 

[Trailblazer]

There's not much of a story to tell there, sadly. I feel like describing it in detail is talking out things from my limited human perspective. I like to think of it as a feeling of entering a holy place uplifting and intuitively knowing things at the same time that can't be described easily by words. Although I'm not sure how useful it is from human perspective I have the complete feeling that this is God. I try not to put more attributes to it than I've experienced.

Thanks... I know these things cannot be described easily in words because they are beyond words... we just know... How we know is not something others can understand because it is our unique experience...

 

[Milton Platt]

My understanding is we can know God’s attributes such as love, mercy, forgiveness and justice through His Prophets and a Messengers such as Jesus, Buddha, Muhammad, Moses, Krishna and Baha’u’llah. But we cannot know His Essence. It would be like the painting trying to comprehend the painter.

In the Baha’i Writings it says God is the ‘unknowable Essence’’

If we cannot demonstrate the actual existence of a deity, how can we simultaneously decide what his attributes are?

 

[Thief]

We all are nothing, and because we are nothing, we are Everything. But nothing dons a mask and plays a character it eventually thinks is real, even, or especially, the character of a priest...or maybe a thief.

If you regard the teaching as a drill, then you are further away from understanding than you think.

'Yeah, yeah, yeah....I know all about it...blah blah blah'...'bin der...dun dat'...'ho..hum'

The ego thinks it knows something.

Take a closer look.

coming from an entity soon to be nothing........

 

[Trailblazer]

There is no 'hidden message' in the verse. It is plain and clear. Why do Christians always think that God is speaking to them in some secret code?

"Rrrrrroger, that!"

You cannot know that life is about more than food and raiment; that you should not live for worldly things, until you are mindfully in the present moment. Most people are not here, now. Their minds are dwelling in the past or looking to some future reward, and not paying attention to what is.

Instead of having both eyes on the path, they have one eye on the path, and the other on the goal, concerned about what they will 'get'. To have both eyes on the path requires us to be here, now; to pay attention.

Being here now reveals to us that we already have what we need:

'The Kingdom of God is within you'

Seeking material gratification is desire, and it is desire that leads us astray. Desire keeps us looking to the past or the future, instead of being here, now.

Truly, “Only he that rids himself forever of desire can see the Secret Essences”;
He that has never rid himself of desire can see only the Outcomes.
These two things issued from the same mould, but nevertheless are different in name.
This “same mould” we can but call the Mystery,
Or rather the “Darker than any Mystery,”
The Doorway whence issued all Secret Essences

Tao te Ching, Ch 1, trans Waley

Lao Tzu: "Tao Te Ching" (170+ translations of Chapter 1)

What more can I add to that... I agree with everything you said... and if you knew me you would know I never say that unless I really agree. I can be brutally honest but I try to be polite...

I particularly agree with this:

Seeking material gratification is desire, and it is desire that leads us astray. Desire keeps us looking to the past or the future, instead of being here, now.

The same eternal spiritual verities are revealed across many religious traditions and philosophies.

 

[loverofhumanity]

If we cannot demonstrate the actual existence of a deity, how can we simultaneously decide what his attributes are?

Hi Milton. A non existent thing has no signs. For instance the proof the sun exists is its light and warmth. A painting proves that there is a painter.

When we look at physics or the structure, order and organisation of molecules, atoms and universes such organization undoubtedly proves a designer and organizer. Just because the painting cannot understand or visualize the painter does not mean the painter does not exist. Although the painting itself is living proof and testimony that there is a painter the painting could say ‘I reject the concept of the painter because I do not see him’. Of course the painting never can know the painter and will always remain deluded that there never was a painter even though it’s very existence is proof.

Yet, although we, like the painting deny a painter, we ourselves are proof there is one.

Now that we have established that there is a God or a Designer or a Creator by the fact we did not bring ourselves into existence from nothingness which is not in existence to be able to perform any action such as creation, we can examine the Words of the Prophets and Messengers to learn more about God.

The Prophets and Messengers have been chosen by God to be Intermediaries between Him and us. Because we do not have the capacity to directly communicate with God, God uses the Prophets to communicate with us.

We are told that the Prophets and Messengers are not ordinary human beings only but were preexistent and not initially born here so in some mystical way they have been endowed with the ability and capacity to relate to us things about God according to our capacity and understanding in the time and age we live in, in each age as we develop and evolve we learn more about God.

 

[Jumi]

If we cannot demonstrate the actual existence of a deity, how can we simultaneously decide what his attributes are?

You bring up a good point in my opinion. If something is hard to study in the first place, it's best to leave the attributes uncertain to avoid systematic errors on top of the language problems of describing something as hard to box in as God.

 

[godnotgod]

coming from an entity soon to be nothing........

You like to think you've got ahold of something there, don'cha? It just demonstrates your utter lack of understanding of nothing, which you equate with something derogatory. I have asked you repeatedly for years now to show me the 'something' you call a person, or 'self', or 'I', which to date, you have been totally unable to demonstrate the existence of. When you finally capture it, please bring it here so that we may perform a proper examination of it.

 

[godnotgod]

Hi Milton. A non existent thing has no signs. For instance the proof the sun exists is its light and warmth. A painting proves that there is a painter.

When we look at physics or the structure, order and organisation of molecules, atoms and universes such organization undoubtedly proves a designer and organizer. Just because the painting cannot understand or visualize the painter does not mean the painter does not exist. Although the painting itself is living proof and testimony that there is a painter the painting could say ‘I reject the concept of the painter because I do not see him’. Of course the painting never can know the painter and will always remain deluded that there never was a painter even though it’s very existence is proof.

.

You are mistaken.

The sun, the painter, do not exist. The sun is totally an action and not a thing called 'sun'.

There is no 'painter of the painting'. There is only the action of 'painting', without an agent of painting called 'painter', though it seems so. And that is because we falsely create an idea of self called 'I', which is illusory.

As a metaphor, we may look at what we call a 'whirlpool' and think of it as a thing. But, of course, that is false. There is no such 'whirler of whirling water' called 'whirlpool': there is only whirling water, period.

But besides all that, to use the creation of an artifact as an analogy for proof of the existence of God is an erroneous kind of logic, because, unlike an artifact, The Universe is not a made thing, as in 'pot and potter'; it is an organic event that is constantly unfolding and evolving.

And finally, regarding the sub-atomic 'particle', we now know it not to be a material particle at all, but the result of standing waves, created by the field within which the particle is found. There are no such 'material' particles that have been 'created', because nothing has been created at all. What we call a 'particle' is an illusion being projected by its surrounding field. So now we have the study of 'field theory'.

 

[godnotgod]

Seeking material gratification is desire, and it is desire that leads us astray. Desire keeps us looking to the past or the future, instead of being here, now.

The same eternal spiritual verities are revealed across many religious traditions and philosophies.

Do you really think so? Most of the orthodox teachings have us seeking a God outside of ourslelves to worship, along with some heavenly reward for being morally 'good', while condemning the morally evil in the name of their God. This is all based upon desire and egoistic motives to 'get' something.

It is the mystics who see this problem and transcend this kind of desire which only keeps one going round and round in delusion.

BTW, the example I provided of the parable of the Lilies of the Field is a reflection of Yeshua's teachings that survived the destructive onslaught of Rome. This is an Eastern teaching.

 

[loverofhumanity]

You are mistaken.

The sun, the painter, do not exist. The sun is totally an action and not a thing called 'sun'.

There is no 'painter of the painting'. There is only the action of 'painting', without an agent of painting called 'painter', though it seems so. And that is because we falsely create an idea of self called 'I', which is illusory.

As a metaphor, we may look at what we call a 'whirlpool' and think of it as a thing. But, of course, that is false. There is no such 'whirler of whirling water' called 'whirlpool': there is only whirling water, period.

But besides all that, to use the creation of an artifact as an analogy for proof of the existence of God is an erroneous kind of logic, because, unlike an artifact, The Universe is not a made thing, as in 'pot and potter'; it is an organic event that is constantly unfolding and evolving.

And finally, regarding the sub-atomic 'particle', we now know it not to be a material particle at all, but the result of standing waves, created by the field within which the particle is found. There are no such 'material' particles that have been 'created', because nothing has been created at all. What we call a 'particle' is an illusion being projected by its surrounding field. So now we have the study of 'field theory'.

You are mistaken.

The sun, the painter, do not exist. The sun is totally an action and not a thing called 'sun'.

There is no 'painter of the painting'. There is only the action of 'painting', without an agent of painting called 'painter', though it seems so. And that is because we falsely create an idea of self called 'I', which is illusory.

As a metaphor, we may look at what we call a 'whirlpool' and think of it as a thing. But, of course, that is false. There is no such 'whirler of whirling water' called 'whirlpool': there is only whirling water, period.

But besides all that, to use the creation of an artifact as an analogy for proof of the existence of God is an erroneous kind of logic, because, unlike an artifact, The Universe is not a made thing, as in 'pot and potter'; it is an organic event that is constantly unfolding and evolving.

And finally, regarding the sub-atomic 'particle', we now know it not to be a material particle at all, but the result of standing waves, created by the field within which the particle is found. There are no such 'material' particles that have been 'created', because nothing has been created at all. What we call a 'particle' is an illusion being projected by its surrounding field. So now we have the study of 'field theory'.

Knowledge is endless and so no matter how much we learn we still remain ignorant.

Everywhere, when we study anything, an ant or our own bodies, we find knowledge. Even we don’t understand the tiniest atom yet we are able to use it, split it and do all sorts of things.

Knowledge is boundless and the wise person acknowledges his ignorance and that we are but a grain of sand amongst all the beaches in existence or a drop in all the oceans.

We can only search and discover so we learn more and more. The minute we say ‘I know’ we admit our ignorance and cease to learn. But is it right to say others are mistaken and we are correct? Maybe it is us who are wrong and by stating that have closed our minds and therefore cease to learn.

So we should keep an open mind and continue to try and learn and not form too many preconceived ideas about others ignorance or knowledge because they may have searched and made important and valuable discoveries that may be of great assistance to us had we been open and receptive to them.