Is God an Alternative Fact?

[Guy Threepwood]

Subjectivity of facts does not make facts subjective.

well there's your trouble!

"[science]: such wholesale returns of conjecture, out of such a trifling investment of fact": Mark Twain

 

[TDselector]

Since human being cannot act in violation of the two laws that govern our existence, we cannot be subjective of the mechanics that enable the effect of being subjective. Subjectivity comes after the fact not before fact. Cart before the horse.

 

[Bird123]

Which came first, your brain or its thoughts? Nature prohibits the existence of thoughts superseding the existence of our physical reality. Understand this and you can understand why the God theory is a false and unnatural belief.

We are all Spiritual beings in our true natures. We can exist and have thoughts without a physical body. I have direct experience to this.

When you base all reality on the physical laws of this universe you blind or limit yourself from the Real Truth. There is a quantum experiment which is showing that future causes can influence past events. It has to do with entanglement. Web search thought experiment, quantum entanglement, future determining past or that sort of thing. I know you will find it.

Clearly, there is much to discover for us all. Let us never limit our possibilities by assuming we know it all. There is so much MORE!!

 

[TDselector]

We are all Spiritual beings in our true natures. We can exist and have thoughts without a physical body. I have direct experience to this.

When you base all reality on the physical laws of this universe you blind or limit yourself from the Real Truth. There is a quantum experiment which is showing that future causes can influence past events. It has to do with entanglement. Web search thought experiment, quantum entanglement, future determining past or that sort of thing. I know you will find it.

Clearly, there is much to discover for us all. Let us never limit our possibilities by assuming we know it all. There is so much MORE!!

In order to be "spiritual" beings it is necessary to "exist" as such. Unambiguous empirical evidence has shown existence does not preexist. Existence is an effect of non-existence. This means that existence of a "spiritual" being or a physical being are not origins of existence since both are beings of existence.

As physical beings we obtain knowledge from a physical brain not from a hypothetical spiritual brain.

 

[Bird123]

In order to be "spiritual" beings it is necessary to "exist" as such. Unambiguous empirical evidence has shown existence does not preexist. Existence is an effect of non-existence. This means that existence of a "spiritual" being or a physical being are not origins of existence since both are beings of existence.

As physical beings we obtain knowledge from a physical brain not from a hypothetical spiritual brain.

Concerning the interface between the spiritual being who we are and the physical body, the connections are in the brain. Once confined in a physical body we acquire large amounts of sensory input. This is why people are seduced into thinking this physical world is all there is. Talk with the very youngest for some can still tell the difference.

You confine yourself to this physical world in your thinking. You must be open to all possibilities and be willing to open more doors. Study some of that Quantum science like I suggested. In time, Quantum will prove to be the dimensional interface. Exciting times are just around the corner.

 

[TDselector]

Concerning the interface between the spiritual being who we are and the physical body, the connections are in the brain. Once confined in a physical body we acquire large amounts of sensory input. This is why people are seduced into thinking this physical world is all there is. Talk with the very youngest for some can still tell the difference.

You confine yourself to this physical world in your thinking. You must be open to all possibilities and be willing to open more doors. Study some of that Quantum science like I suggested. In time, Quantum will prove to be the dimensional interface. Exciting times are just around the corner.

Which came first the physical brain or its thoughts? In order for there to be "possibilities" a selection must first be made. And since you wish to play the quantum mechanics card then you need to understand that QM is not a causal theory, more importantly, it has been proven to be an incomplete theory as Albert Einstein had suspected: Assumed Higgs Boson Discovery Proved Einstein Right

 

[Bird123]

Which came first the physical brain or its thoughts? In order for there to be "possibilities" a selection must first be made. And since you wish to play the quantum mechanics card then you need to understand that QM is not a causal theory, more importantly, it has been proven to be an incomplete theory as Albert Einstein had suspected: Assumed Higgs Boson Discovery Proved Einstein Right

You existed long before your current physical body was created. After being installed in your physical body, your view is restricted by that physical body. The stage is set. Your lessons begin. You have always chosen your lessons with your free choices.

QM is not a causal theory? I'm never concerned with labels. I'm concerned with what actually is. Sure, the theories about quantum mechanics are not proven. That is because mankind has not acquired that knowledge yet. Einstein never knew how it all fits together.

I merely suggested you look into it because there is much evidence that actually exists. The double slot light experiment is real. Scientists actually used atoms instead of light and came up with the same results. Entanglement exists. That future cause experiment that affected the past does exist. That should open new doors of thought in your causal views if you choose not to ignore it.

I'm starting to see how these things fit together. On the other hand, I've given you enough to explore and think about.

 

[TDselector]

You existed long before your current physical body was created. After being installed in your physical body, your view is restricted by that physical body. The stage is set. Your lessons begin. You have always chosen your lessons with your free choices.

QM is not a causal theory? I'm never concerned with labels. I'm concerned with what actually is. Sure, the theories about quantum mechanics are not proven. That is because mankind has not acquired that knowledge yet. Einstein never knew how it all fits together.

I merely suggested you look into it because there is much evidence that actually exists. The double slot light experiment is real. Scientists actually used atoms instead of light and came up with the same results. Entanglement exists. That future cause experiment that affected the past does exist. That should open new doors of thought in your causal views if you choose not to ignore it.

I'm starting to see how these things fit together. On the other hand, I've given you enough to explore and think about.

Oh my, I actually thought I was having a conversation with a sane individual. My mistake. When you exhibit the integrity of your convictions by conducting the Final Selection Thought Experiment in real life ... what sane people call reality, then and only then will you have something to teach because you will then be basing your comments on reality not unsubstantiated mental delusions.

 

[Bird123]

Oh my, I actually thought I was having a conversation with a sane individual. My mistake. When you exhibit the integrity of your convictions by conducting the Final Selection Thought Experiment in real life ... what sane people call reality, then and only then will you have something to teach because you will then be basing your comments on reality not unsubstantiated mental delusions.

Your quote: Final Selection Thought Experiment:
Let's say that one morning upon awakening you find yourself completely paralyzed absent of the ability to select. This means you cannot choose to move your body whatsoever. You cannot choose to take in any fluids. You cannot choose to take in any nourishment. You cannot choose to relieve yourself, et cetera. Nor can you have others indirectly choose for you. The outcome is absolute. The effect of a physical system to no longer have the capacity to make direct selections is certain death.

You build a box. Make your limits then marvel at the results. Reality does not exist like this. Others can never be restricted from acting on external objects. Many in society will do what it takes to keep you alive. It is being done in this world as we speak. This is regardless of your ability to choose.

I have pointed to quantum evidence. Experiments you are capable of discovering. One can live in a box, refuse to consider anything external, however is this really truth or just a person attempting to make reality what they want reality to be??

One must be open for the truth one discovers that they do not readily agree with. Upon investigation, there will be other doors one can open that will confirm the real truth. Can you really say every truth you ever discovered that you agreed with from the start?

It's easy to dismiss me as being delusional. That's because you do not want to hear what I have to say. Can one who seeks real Truth dismiss any of the possibilities simply because they can not agree with them? That's not good science or investigation methods.

What I have told you is the truth. I am not here to teach you or get you to believe anything. As with everything in this world, truth is placed on our doorstep every day. It is up to each of us what we choose to do with that truth.

As I see it. our actions tell God and the world not only what we know but what we need to learn. As I see it, the only way to really understand God is to study God's actions. Actions tell it all. Hey, I might not agree with actions that I see, but I will work at understanding them and why the choices are made that way.

 

[TDselector]

You build a box. Make your limits then marvel at the results. Reality does not exist like this. Others can never be restricted from acting on external objects. Many in society will do what it takes to keep you alive. It is being done in this world as we speak. This is regardless of your ability to choose.

How can a human being "build a box" without first making a selection?

I have pointed to quantum evidence. Experiments you are capable of discovering. One can live in a box, refuse to consider anything external, however is this really truth or just a person attempting to make reality what they want reality to be??

How can a human being conduct an "experiment" without first making a selection?

One must be open for the truth one discovers that they do not readily agree with. Upon investigation, there will be other doors one can open that will confirm the real truth. Can you really say every truth you ever discovered that you agreed with from the start?

How can a human being be "open for the truth" or "investigate" without first making a selection?

It's easy to dismiss me as being delusional. That's because you do not want to hear what I have to say. Can one who seeks real Truth dismiss any of the possibilities simply because they can not agree with them? That's not good science or investigation methods.

How can a human being conduct an "investigation" without first making a selection?

What I have told you is the truth. I am not here to teach you or get you to believe anything. As with everything in this world, truth is placed on our doorstep every day. It is up to each of us what we choose to do with that truth.

How can a human being conduct an "teach" without first making a selection?

As I see it. our actions tell God and the world not only what we know but what we need to learn. As I see it, the only way to really understand God is to study God's actions. Actions tell it all. Hey, I might not agree with actions that I see, but I will work at understanding them and why the choices are made that way.

How can a human being "study God's actions" without first making a selection?

Once again: How much does a direct or indirect selection weigh, what are their scales, and where was the mutually exclusive selection variable you used to read these words located when you used it?

How can a human being "observe" without first making a selection to read these words?

 

[Bird123]

How can a human being "build a box" without first making a selection?



How can a human being conduct an "experiment" without first making a selection?



How can a human being be "open for the truth" or "investigate" without first making a selection?



How can a human being conduct an "investigation" without first making a selection?



How can a human being conduct an "teach" without first making a selection?



How can a human being "study God's actions" without first making a selection?

Once again: How much does a direct or indirect selection weigh, what are their scales, and where was the mutually exclusive selection variable you used to read these words located when you used it?

How can a human being "observe" without first making a selection to read these words?

Perhaps, you made a selection before you were installed into your physical body as to the parameters of your existence in this physical world. Perhaps God made the selection in order that your lessons that you need to learn would be within your grasp. Clearly. your life parameters were in place when you arrived.

Part of learning is choosing.

Your choosing can come as a result of external factors. There are many variables. Your TV goes out. Suddenly you choose to get another one. Interaction is key. It can generate your step to choose.

I think I'm going to choose that your nose itches. Did it work??? Choosing does have it's limitations. On the other hand, you better scratch that nose before you go crazy.

 

[TDselector]

Perhaps, you made a selection before you were installed into your physical body as to the parameters of your existence in this physical world.

Self-causality as you propose if true of our existence can be tested via the thought experiment in real life. When you validate your beliefs by actually testing them, then and only then, will your beliefs be based on reality. Until then, to think that your existence is God given in contradiction of your own reality is indeed a delusional state of mind by willfully lying to yourself. I truly feel sorry for you for life is too short to live it as a lie.

 

[Bird123]

Self-causality as you propose if true of our existence can be tested via the thought experiment in real life. When you validate your beliefs by actually testing them, then and only then, will your beliefs be based on reality. Until then, to think that your existence is God given in contradiction of your own reality is indeed a delusional state of mind by willfully lying to yourself. I truly feel sorry for you for life is too short to live it as a lie.

It is not I who is living a lie. How can you ever understand true reality when you ignore and fail to explore all possibilities? You have ignored quantum experiments that actually exist. Instead of exploring the possibility that God exists, you ignore such avenue because discovery might not be easy to come by. Might there even be the possibility that God exists and that no religion understands God at all? In my search to discover, I'm willing to explore things I might not readily agree with. I ignore nothing.

Living in a self constructed box is in itself a lie if one seeks the truth about reality. Perhaps you need to define delusional. Is it delusional to choose to be blind to anything one can't agree with?? Maybe not. Maybe so, however it does place restrictions on discovery itself. If you are at the point you feel you no longer need to discover, then I would say you are not seeing very clearly with your Ego in the way of true progress.

 

[TDselector]

It is not I who is living a lie.

Then support your belief that your existence is God given and not governed by the two acts of selection by conducting the thought experiment in real life. If you refuse to do so yet continue to believe your existence is God given then you are lying to yourself, plain and simple.

 

[serp777]

The Final Selection Thought Experiment enables everyone to prove to themselves if God is an alternative fact or not. If there is a God that governs our existence as believed, then the two acts of selection (direct and indirect selection) cannot govern our existence which means that everyone can conduct the thought experiment in real life and continue their God given existence. However, if no one can continue their existence without the two acts of selection, then the belief of an all powerful deity (God) that created the universe and governs everything in it is not based on the Nature of our reality.

Final Selection Thought Experiment:
Let's say that one morning upon awakening you find yourself completely paralyzed absent of the ability to select. This means you cannot choose to move your body whatsoever. You cannot choose to take in any fluids. You cannot choose to take in any nourishment. You cannot choose to relieve yourself, et cetera. Nor can you have others indirectly choose for you. The outcome is absolute. The effect of a physical system to no longer have the capacity to make direct selections is certain death.​

Until now, humanity did not have a way to universally refute, without ambiguity, belief of a deity or deities governing our existence. Is it too late to correct ourselves in order to advance our humanity now that we have the knowledge to do so, or will we choose to be ignorant of absolute facts in order to maintain our beliefs in alternative facts? - See more at: How The NY Giants Super Bowl Commemorative Series Was Used To Confirm Science Is Based On "Alternative Facts" History

"

1. I accept absolute facts over alternative facts.
2. I accept alternative facts over absolute facts.
3. I prefer to remain ignorant of the laws that govern my existence."

These questions present a false dilemma. Two of the answers should be that I reject the concept of an absolute fact and I don't know. The other question is what defines an "alternative fact"? You seem to be playing loosely with the definition of fact as well.

 

[TDselector]

"

1. I accept absolute facts over alternative facts.
2. I accept alternative facts over absolute facts.
3. I prefer to remain ignorant of the laws that govern my existence."

These questions present a false dilemma. Two of the answers should be that I reject the concept of an absolute fact and I don't know. The other question is what defines an "alternative fact"? You seem to be playing loosely with the definition of fact as well.

Good point which is exactly the point. Believers use their beliefs as a substitute for facts, i.e., alternative facts. When confronted with actual facts, believers will choose ignorance, as exemplified by comments made by Bird123, over absolute facts. The dilemma is real for those who will not accept truth over fiction. Just look at Trump's comments to see how lying to yourself and then to others only makes one look delusional at best.

 

[Bird123]

Then support your belief that your existence is God given and not governed by the two acts of selection by conducting the thought experiment in real life. If you refuse to do so yet continue to believe your existence is God given then you are lying to yourself, plain and simple.

If God exists, then God can be found. You make assumptions that God is a belief or that God can not be found. If my thinking was like yours, then My conclusion would be that you do not exist. I only believe you are here. You are a delusion. Since, I choose reality. I have evidence that you do exist. Now, if I did not really want you to exist, I could choose to tell myself you don't then ignore everything concerning you. On the other hand, since I choose reality, I must be open to all truth not just that which I want to be true.

Your thought experiment seems to be no more than a box which you have placed limits on so you can get specific results which you do.

I have an open mind. Perhaps, I have not understood your thought experiment. Give me specific steps and I will conduct one. I will not limit my view as I believe you have.

 

[TDselector]

If God exists, then God can be found. You make assumptions that God is a belief or that God can not be found. If my thinking was like yours, then My conclusion would be that you do not exist. I only believe you are here. You are a delusion. Since, I choose reality. I have evidence that you do exist. Now, if I did not really want you to exist, I could choose to tell myself you don't then ignore everything concerning you. On the other hand, since I choose reality, I must be open to all truth not just that which I want to be true.

Your thought experiment seems to be no more than a box which you have placed limits on so you can get specific results which you do.

I have an open mind. Perhaps, I have not understood your thought experiment. Give me specific steps and I will conduct one. I will not limit my view as I believe you have.

Your logic is based on the existence of 'if" when your existence is based on "how" it came to exist as can be verified via the thought experiment in "real" life. The reality of our existence does not allow "if" prior to "how". That is why not a single human being can continue its existence without the ability to select or have someone else indirectly select for them in order to continue their existence.

You claim to have an "open mind" yet you have a closed mind when it comes to the Nature of our reality. You refuse to comprehend that you are prohibited to have a choice about the mechanics of "how" you are able to choose in the first place. This is not a "box". This is the Nature of our reality in which we are not entitled to have an opinion on the matter.

"Give me specific steps and I will conduct one." - The steps you are requesting happen each time a person becomes a quadriplegic or slips into a comma. Do you really want to go there in order to prove you have an "open mind"?

 

[psychoslice]

Nah, I think i'll wait for the resurrection day. The Judgement day. "Then we will know God as we know ourselves".

Good luck with that.

 

[psychoslice]

Show me the empirical evidence that confirms there is no such thing as God.

Could I just ask you if you could show any evidence of god, you would be the first ever to do so.