Is God good?

[RabbiO]

Hello guys, I'm new here and I have no clue how this works...

Since you haven't posted an intro thread let me take this opportunity to welcome you to the forum..

At some point do tell us more about yourself.

 

[idea]

Everyone has to die, because God has decreed it. To save life that is inevitably destined to die through sin is not God's primary purpose. His primary purpose is to create a people with faith. Suffering promotes faith. The bible shows the end of man where no-one suffers (cf. Sodom). Suffering encourages men to seek God and so glorify God.

How does suffering promote faith? Would you have faith in a bridge that collapses and does not support you? Would you have faith in a bank that does not return your investments? Would you have faith in a teacher who does not show up for class? Would you have faith in a guardian who does not rescue you from fire?

We have faith in things that serve us, that are reliable, trustworthy, just, loving. It seems evil to have faith in an entity that allows or even creates suffering.

 

[idea]

Then don't make crazy implications. Your analogy implies that humans are responsible for their misery because of the poor choices they make, whereas I pointed out that a lot of their misery comes from things that have nothing to do with their choosing.

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Perhaps it comes from a previous evil life we are still paying the price for.

 

[Skwim]

Perhaps it comes from a previous evil life we are still paying the price for.

And wouldn't that be a nice gift from the god of love. "Hey sinner, I'm not done with you yet. Not by a long shot."

.

 

[idea]

And wouldn't that be a nice gift from the god of love. "Hey sinner, I'm not done with you yet. Not by a long shot."

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Will the end justify the means? If by chance we are all "saved", imagine if the experiences were somehow educational etc.?

If there is an afterlife, and if it works out well for everyone, then it will work out well for me too.
If there is an afterlife, and it does not work out well for everyone - then it will not work out well for me either. (how could any slightly loving/caring person be happy knowing others were not?)
If there is no afterlife, I will be happy to eternally sleep (I don't get enough sleep, sleep is heavenly) \

Guess we will all just have to wait it out to see....
If ↑↑ is actually just and loving, no one will be condemned for their honest observations.

 

[Skwim]

If ↑↑ is actually just and loving, no one will be condemned for their honest observations.

So you hope. It may be that insultingly honest observations are just as bad as groping the baby sitter.

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[stvdv]

How does suffering promote faith?

Suffering on it's own is not something to give you faith in my experience.
Suffering + Praying + Miracles easily lifts up my faith
Suffering + Praying - Miracles easily can bring ones faith down
Suffering + Praying + Others getting cured, and not you !, could make you even angry at God

 

[ronandcarol]

Is God good?
To whatever extreme you want to think good is, God is beyond that.
ronandcarol

 

[Axe Elf]

You said that without evil we could not imagine good. Are you now saying that we could recognize good in the absence of evil?

Actually what I said is that without the presence of evil we could not RECOGNIZE good--everything would be good, so just like everything being begour, you wouldn't have any basis for knowing what that means.

You can recognize good in the absence of evil once you understand the difference--so because of our moments here on Earth we can appreciate an eternity of evil-less good-ness in heaven, but you could never recognize goodness without having something to contrast it with at some point.

Why not? That seems to be just a bare assertion. Are you saying that we couldn't imagine someone murdering another person? We couldn't imagine someone dying? I would say that humans are pretty good at imagining things, so I don't see why this would be the case.

The "why not" is because things only exist in contrast to their negation.

Could you imagine what it would be like to see, if there was no such thing as light? You'd have no eyes, no sense that you were missing anything, so there would be nothing to base the imagination of "seeing" upon. You wouldn't even know what "darkness" was, because there would be nothing that was "not-dark."

Maybe we could imagine dying--but if nothing ever died, maybe we couldn't. If people did still die in a world with no evil, then dying--even at the hands of someone else--could not be seen as an evil thing. If you could imagine something as being evil, then evil would exist.

Have you ever imagined a world where humans have telekinetic powers?

Yes, and in a world where both good and evil exist, I can even imagine whether or not widespread telekinetic powers would be a good thing or a bad thing. If bad things did not exist, I could not make such a determination.

 

[Baroodi]

Hello guys, I'm new here and I have no clue how this works... Anyways, if anyone can see this, I want to ask about something.

God sees the future, so he already knows if we are going to heaven or hell. If we are good or bad.
But God is also almighty, so he can change it. Or he can choose only good people to be born.
So why does he let bad people be here among us? People who are killing other people.
I mean, if God is good, why does he allow wars, terrorist attacks and stuff like this?

It would be cool if I get answers from different religions, but I would be mainly interested in the Jewish view on this issue.

This is the way this world was created by God: 2 opposites every where

male vs female
day vs night
good vs evil
valleys vs hills
soft vs hard
cold vs hot
life vs death
etc...

God didnt decide for any one to be good or bad. he tells you that way is good for you, take it, and this one is bad avoid it. (We showed him the two paths); noble Quran.
The Angles asked God: why do you want to creat someone who will do corruption and will spill the bloods on earth? God answered them as narrated in Quran: I know what you don't know"
uncountable signs indicating the presence of God are scattered everywhere, only those who are blind and dumb in their heart miscommunicate.

 

[Cary Cook]

Hello guys, I'm new here and I have no clue how this works... Anyways, if anyone can see this, I want to ask about something.

God sees the future, so he already knows if we are going to heaven or hell. If we are good or bad.
But God is also almighty, so he can change it. Or he can choose only good people to be born.
So why does he let bad people be here among us? People who are killing other people.
I mean, if God is good, why does he allow wars, terrorist attacks and stuff like this?

It would be cool if I get answers from different religions, but I would be mainly interested in the Jewish view on this issue.

You're starting with several dogmatic assumptions before you ever get to "Is God good?". If you just want to talk to people who agree with those assumptions, I'm not even talking to you, but rather to other people reading this - specifically truth seekers.

 

[Thermos aquaticus]

Actually what I said is that without the presence of evil we could not RECOGNIZE good--everything would be good, so just like everything being begour, you wouldn't have any basis for knowing what that means.

We can recognize moving things with our hands while also imagining our non-existent telekinetic powers. I don't see why the same could not be true for good and evil.

You can recognize good in the absence of evil once you understand the difference--so because of our moments here on Earth we can appreciate an eternity of evil-less good-ness in heaven, but you could never recognize goodness without having something to contrast it with at some point.

The difference would be doing what you are not currently doing. Am I currently not going on a raid of a local town, raping and pillaging the town folk? Nope. So good would be not doing that, which is what I am doing now, and evil would be participating in a raid.

Could you imagine what it would be like to see, if there was no such thing as light?

Yes. It's not that hard to build a model of small particles bouncing off of an object. We also measure and model light that we can't see, such as x-rays, infrared, and radiowaves. The entire enterprise of science often can describe things that we can't see.

Maybe we could imagine dying--but if nothing ever died, maybe we couldn't. If people did still die in a world with no evil, then dying--even at the hands of someone else--could not be seen as an evil thing. If you could imagine something as being evil, then evil would exist.

So there will be evil in heaven?

 

[Thermos aquaticus]

This is the way this world was created by God: 2 opposites every where

male vs female

Only if you ignore all of those hermaphroditic species, and also ignore the fact that the vast majority of organisms on Earth are asexual.

day vs night

You forgot dusk and dawn.

good vs evil

You forgot nice and rude.

valleys vs hills

You forgot mesas and mountains.

soft vs hard

You forgot malleable and liquid.

cold vs hot

You forgot lukewarm.

life vs death

You forgot viruses that span the gap between alive and dead.

 

[Katzpur]

Do you really think that goodness can't exist unless there are people doing evil to one another? If so, what is heaven supposed to be like?

I believe that goodness could exist in the absence of evil, but I don't believe we could fully appreciate it or recognize it for what it was. Suppose there was no such thing as illness or pain or injury. Imagine you had never in your life experienced illness and had never known anyone or even known of anyone who had. If you had nothing to compare perfect health to, how much do you think you'd really appreciate it? I know that when I get feeling better, even after having been sick for just a few days, I am so keenly aware of the improvement that it's really just astounding. It feels so good to feel good again, after having felt bad. I believe there is a purpose behind our having to experience both good health and illness as well as a myriad of other opposites.

 

[Thermos aquaticus]

I believe that goodness could exist in the absence of evil, but I don't believe we could fully appreciate it or recognize it for what it was. Suppose there was no such thing as illness or pain or injury. Imagine you had never in your life experienced illness and had never known anyone or even known of anyone who had. If you had nothing to compare perfect health to, how much do you think you'd really appreciate it? I know that when I get feeling better, even after having been sick for just a few days, I am so keenly aware of the improvement that it's really just astounding. It feels so good to feel good again, after having felt bad. I believe there is a purpose behind our having to experience both good health and illness as well as a myriad of other opposites.

So little children have to die of painful cancers so we can enjoy life? Surely an omnipotent deity can do better than that.

 

[Katzpur]

So little children have to die of painful cancers so we can enjoy life? Surely an omnipotent deity can do better than that.

Thanks for your truly profound and insightful observation. I'll give it some serious consideration. Okay, done.

 

[Thermos aquaticus]

Thanks for your truly profound and insightful observation. I'll give it some serious consideration. Okay, done.

That's usually the response people use when they run into an argument they can't argue against.

 

[Baroodi]

Only if you ignore all of those hermaphroditic species, and also ignore the fact that the vast majority of organisms on Earth are asexual.



You forgot dusk and dawn.



You forgot nice and rude.



You forgot mesas and mountains.


You forgot malleable and liquid.



You forgot lukewarm.



You forgot viruses that span the gap between alive and dead.

Yes, in short Health and disease, all hearing and dumb, blind and visionary, black and white .................. uncountable in odds of 2.

when your hip is broken. Evolution or nature will never give you a healthy hip again. but God can do.

 

[Katzpur]

That's usually the response people use when they run into an argument they can't argue against.

Really? Thanks for letting me know that I was arguing. I didn't even realize that. Silly me... I just thought I was responding to a question. But when somebody is in the mood to argue, I guess any response, argumentative or not, can be interpreted as aggressive. Excuse me for not recognizing you as one of those folks. Have a nice day, and I hope you find someone who really is as combative as you wanted me to be.

 

[Thermos aquaticus]

Really? Thanks for letting me know that I was arguing. I didn't even realize that. Silly me... I just thought I was responding to a question. But when somebody is in the mood to argue, I guess any response, argumentative or not, can be interpreted as aggressive. Excuse me for not recognizing you as one of those folks. Have a nice day, and I hope you find someone who really is as combative as you wanted me to be.

Then how can you explain why we live in a world supposedly created by a loving deity whose creation causes children to die at a young age due to painful diseases? Is this deity incapable of creating a universe devoid of such pain? Or did this deity purposefully put this pain and death into the creation?