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Is God Material Or Immaterial

IndigoChild5559

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
King Phenomenon said:
For a long time, I believed God was in immaterial or spirit because I was unable to grasp the idea of infinite space. Over time my understanding has changed. The word spirit eloquently tries to give understanding to the idea of infinite space imo. What I was unable to grasp was infinite space itself, so calling it spirit took away my mind’s limitations of understanding. Now, it’s so natural for me to see that God is infinitely material. However, it still is difficult to grasp. There’s nothing weird about it. Just because something is hard to grasp doesn’t make it immaterial. My god is real. What else is there? Non real? What is non real? Non real is non real. Non real is nothing.
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The material world is composed of energy and matter. For a person to claim God is immaterial is simply to say he is not energy and/or matter.

There are many religions who DO believe God is material. Pagan deities are powers within this world, such as a storm, a king, or a war. Animists focus the manna or spirits that pervade all material things. Pantheists believe that the material universe itself is God.

In contrast, Judaism and Islam have an entirely different view, that God is never matter nor the energy that makes up our world. He is seen as the author of creation rather than creation, just as a painter is not the painting.

And then there are hybrids such as Christianity and Panentheism.

Oh, and let's not forget the eastern religions like Hinduism that say the material world doesn't even exist, that it's nothing but illusion.
 
Jimmy

Jimmy

King Phenomenon
Sir Joseph said:
And you base that significant view firmly upon a mere feeling in your heart? I understand most people pick their religion that way, but wouldn't you like to be able to defend it with evidence?
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It just makes sense that it’s infinite material. What else is there? Something immaterial wouldn’t make sense. The concept of infinite space (God) being material or immaterial are both wild but the infinite material is something I think is even more dumbfounding than the infinite immaterial.

I think many people think God is immaterial because they can’t understand him. That’s what I did for a long time anyway. I have a more mature, and realistic understanding of God now.
 
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IndigoChild5559

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
King Phenomenon said:
I think many people think God is immaterial because they can’t understand him.
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I'm the first person to point out that the finite cannot fathom the infinite. But that has never been my reason for seeing God as immaterial. A huge chunk of it is that I simply grew up with the idea, so it feels like second nature to me. But I would say that it is bolstered by the very real fact that God cannot be measured. I can determine the frequency of a light source. I can find the mass of an element. I can measure the effect of gravity on the moon. I can count how many human beings respond favorably to a new antibiotic. I can measure how many kilometers a car runs before needing more gas, or how long it takes for milk to become cheese. But I cannot measure anything about God.
 
Jimmy

Jimmy

King Phenomenon
IndigoChild5559 said:
I'm the first person to point out that the finite cannot fathom the infinite. But that has never been my reason for seeing God as immaterial. A huge chunk of it is that I simply grew up with the idea, so it feels like second nature to me. But I would say that it is bolstered by the very real fact that God cannot be measured. I can determine the frequency of a light source. I can find the mass of an element. I can measure the effect of gravity on the moon. I can count how many human beings respond favorably to a new antibiotic. I can measure how many kilometers a car runs before needing more gas, or how long it takes for milk to become cheese. But I cannot measure anything about God.
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So your God exists outside of nature? As an idea?
 
Sir Joseph

Sir Joseph

Member
God's a spirit by most people's definition or concept, and by Biblical insight he's omnipresent/everywhere.

Even if I dismissed the Bible, I would maintain that it takes a spiritual supernatural being to create a material natural universe. Otherwise, the Laws of Thermodynamics are broken.

God has warned us in the Bible that people will worship the creation rather than the Creator. I think making God out to be material - as part of the creation itself - is a fulfillment of that heresy.
 
Jimmy

Jimmy

King Phenomenon
Sir Joseph said:
God's a spirit by most people's definition or concept, and by Biblical insight he's omnipresent/everywhere.

Even if I dismissed the Bible, I would maintain that it takes a spiritual supernatural being to create a material natural universe. Otherwise, the Laws of Thermodynamics are broken.

God has warned us in the Bible that people will worship the creation rather than the Creator. I think making God out to be material - as part of the creation itself - is a fulfillment of that heresy.
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You don’t think God can break the laws of thermodynamics?
 
firedragon

firedragon

Veteran Member
Jimmy said:
For a long time, I believed God was in immaterial or spirit because I was unable to grasp the idea of infinite space. Over time my understanding has changed. The word spirit eloquently tries to give understanding to the idea of infinite space imo. What I was unable to grasp was infinite space itself, so calling it spirit took away my mind’s limitations of understanding. Now, it’s so natural for me to see that God is infinitely material. However, it still is difficult to grasp. There’s nothing weird about it. Just because something is hard to grasp doesn’t make it immaterial. My god is real. What else is there? Non real? What is non real? Non real is non real. Non real is nothing.
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Why did you decide that "immaterial" means "not real"? You mean like you should be able to touch God physically?
 
Sir Joseph

Sir Joseph

Member
Jimmy said:
You don’t think God can break the laws of thermodynamics?
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Believing the Bible's miracles, I must of course accept his ability to break the scientific laws that he established.

If one believes the Genesis creation account as I do, God "seemingly" must have created the universe's time, space and matter before he established its scientific laws. To that point, perhaps your implication sounds good; however, if he wasn't supernatural, he wouldn't be able to create the natural, and if he was material, he wouldn't be supernatural.

My limited mind cannot delve any deeper into this subject, but I'll finish by saying that an infinite material spirit seems like an oxymoron to me, since a spirit by definition is not materialistic.
 
PureX

PureX

Veteran Member
Jimmy said:
For a long time, I believed God was in immaterial or spirit because I was unable to grasp the idea of infinite space. Over time my understanding has changed. The word spirit eloquently tries to give understanding to the idea of infinite space imo. What I was unable to grasp was infinite space itself, so calling it spirit took away my mind’s limitations of understanding. Now, it’s so natural for me to see that God is infinitely material. However, it still is difficult to grasp. There’s nothing weird about it. Just because something is hard to grasp doesn’t make it immaterial. My god is real. What else is there? Non real? What is non real? Non real is non real. Non real is nothing.
Click to expand...
Ultimately, "God" is impossible for we humans to comprehend. Which is why we create representations that we can grasp, to help us cognate and relate to the ideal of "God".

Unfortunately, a lot of us will forget or never realize that these representations ARE representations, and will come to believe that they ARE God. And in doing so they will lose sight of the great and awesome mystery that God is, and lose the humility and awe that should rightly accompany it, from us. From there they become easily enamored with delusions of religious self-righteousness and religious idolatry.

The representations are fine so long as we keep in mind that this is what they are. That our images and ideas of God are not actually God. And that God is actually someting far greater than we can even imagine.
 
Jimmy

Jimmy

King Phenomenon
Sir Joseph said:
Believing the Bible's miracles, I must of course accept his ability to break the scientific laws that he established.

If one believes the Genesis creation account as I do, God "seemingly" must have created the universe's time, space and matter before he established its scientific laws. To that point, perhaps your implication sounds good; however, if he wasn't supernatural, he wouldn't be able to create the natural, and if he was material, he wouldn't be supernatural.

My limited mind cannot delve any deeper into this subject, but I'll finish by saying that an infinite material spirit seems like an oxymoron to me, since a spirit by definition is not materialistic.
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See that’s where you’re wrong in my opinion. The material is supernatural. Life is a miracle.
 
firedragon

firedragon

Veteran Member
Jimmy said:
I just think it’s foolish imo.
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Many people make conjecture brother. Few read up.

Let's say a scientist. He does not just sit and think with no study of what has already been thought. The Dunning-Kruger effect describes how people who are still learning about a subject might not yet realize the full extent of what they don't know, which can lead them to feel more confident about their understanding than they actually are. Not necessarily foolish imo.

I could be wrong.
 
Jimmy

Jimmy

King Phenomenon
PureX said:
Ultimately, "God" is impossible for we humans to comprehend. Which is why we create representations that we can grasp, to help us cognate and relate to the ideal of "God".

Unfortunately, a lot of us will forget or never realize that these representations ARE representations, and will come to believe that they ARE God. And in doing so they will lose sight of the great and awesome mystery that God is, and lose the humility and awe that should rightly accompany it, from us. From there they become easily enamored with delusions of religious self-righteousness and religious idolatry.

The representations are fine so long as we keep in mind that this is what they are. That our images and ideas of God are not actually God. And that God is actually someting far greater than we can even imagine.
Click to expand...
NAH. God isn’t that deep. I think he wants us to know exactly who he is. It’s Not that big of mystery.
 
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