Is god material?

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Uhh, taking care of normal material matters is part of the spiritual path.

Not finding your point.

You may not be finding my point, but I found yours. What you state above has NOTHING to do with what you said, which I was responding to. In point of fact, you were very careful to say "detachment from material" matters...

You can't take care of what you are detached from. Your philosophy appears utterly inconsistent to me.

 

[George-ananda]

But what joy is there in peace and happiness that is "detached" from the material and everchanging -- you know, things like your family, friends, loved ones?

Does a wife or child really want a husband or father who is so detached, I wonder, no matter how peaceful and happy he is...

No, Dharmic religions promote compassion and love for all living things. Practitioners fulfill their material responsibilities too.

 

[Windwalker]

Non overlapping magesteria, eh? Non-overlapping magisteria - Wikipedia

Not exactly like that. I definitely see overlap, for a lot of reasons, but I think as general domains of inquiry, each has its own strengths. I see it in the sense of the interior world interstecting with the exterior world. It's ludicrous to assume there is no overlap.

But to examine the exterior aspects of life, the tool of science is the best suited. To examine the interior spaces of life, religion, specifically the meditative and mystical aspects of it, are best suited for that. I think of it in terms of which hat are we going to wear that day for which job.

 

[Valjean]

Not exactly like that. I definitely see overlap, for a lot of reasons, but I think as general domains of inquiry, each has its own strengths. I see it in the sense of the interior world interstecting with the exterior world. It's ludicrous to assume there is no overlap.

But to examine the exterior aspects of life, the tool of science is the best suited. To examine the interior spaces of life, religion, specifically the meditative and mystical aspects of it, are best suited for that. I think of it in terms of which hat are we going to wear that day for which job.

Point taken, but I'd question religion's role in 'examining'. The only examining I generally see religion doing is examining it's own scriptures for confirmation of some currently held belief.

For an individual I might concur, but I'd say the objective examination of the 'interior spaces' would be better handled by psychology and neurology.

 

[Windwalker]

Point taken, but I'd question religion's role in 'examining'. The only examining I generally see religion doing is examining it's own scriptures for confirmation of some currently held belief.

For an individual I might concur, but I'd say the objective examination of the 'interior spaces' would be better handled by psychology and neurology.

That's why I qualified saying religion, in the meditative and mystical lines. Those are the esoteric approaches, the interiors. Exoteric religions are what you are describing. They are about structures and form, as hopeful supports for the actual interior, or esoteric pursuits. When religion becomes about the form itself, that's when the interior is lost and it's nothing but exoteric religion.

But I'd say psychology and neurology, only scratch the surfaces of those esoteric domains. That's where the meditative and mystical paths take over.

 

[Yusef]

Science is greater at doing science than religion is. Religion is greater at doing religion than science is. Problem solved.

Next?

Excuse me,
According to Shi'a Hadith:
"...anyone who hurry to anything, therefore he does the same work twice"

And it's me.
I should bring these 3 or 4 concepts in independent threads
And I post others to different threads
Because debate of each one is for the same thread.

Well,
This thread is just for Material god Vs Unknowable God

Those group followers of Samiri that name themselves Jews;
They claim that Prophet Ya'qub[pbuh] was wrestled with god!![Na'udhuBllah!!]

Those group followers of Bolos[Paul] that name themselves Christians;
They claim that god is the same Prophet Jesus[pbuh]

Both claim that god is material and has body, hands, feet, eyes, mouth, etc.

Well,
I'm amazed that in the 21th century one think that can imagine God.

Well,
We know that God[Yahweh/Allah] Had Conversations with prophet Moses[pbuh] directly

Well,
The Prophet[pbuh] talked with God in form of the fire!

Well,
Why should we imagine that one who wanna talk with one other, should have the mouth!!??

According to level of science of the scientists of 21th century, the Voice is by movement of molecules of the air.

Well,
God The Most Almighty Is Able to Makes the air's molecules Rhythmic/arrangement and anyone such as prophet Moses[pbuh] be able to hear God's Sayings!

Well,
In the Programming languages the programmers make the same thing for several items!
Such as Clone DVD
that you don't have any DVD driver but the software makes a series of datas for CPU/RAM/OS that the OS thinks A DVD DRIVE HARDWARE exists and is connected to the motherboard!

Therefore God Doesn't need to any body to Do anything He Wills!

 

[VoidoftheSun]

I don't believe religion and science are in conflict; they're not trying to do the same thing.

Yeah I agree with you there, they both have their space, their aims aren't the same. Both are inevitably spiritual concerns though (even if science as it currently is doesn't accept the concept of the spirit in religious terms, lol)

I assume this thread also has something to do with the Salafist belief in All-h having body parts?

Yes that is one thing he was referring to, though some forms of Sunnism like Ash'ari do sometimes lean towards that (even though it's total shirk) with the stupid notion of "if the symbol is used than we can't necessarily deny it".
It reaches ***ing absurd levels in Salafism though where they say stupid stuff like "God has an arm and leg but it's just not like our arm and leg"

It's the polar opposite of what the Qur'an and Ahlulbayt actually say though, but such people don't listen. In the Qur'an, God is completely transcendent but all-encompassing. In essence and quality, I compare Tawhid strongly to Monism, but distinguish that it is not in substance and quantity. Imam Ali (pbuh) speaks always in apophatic theology.

 

[Yusef]

@Yusef -

I see by your tag line that you, in essence, dare people to try to convert you. Here’s the thing - That’s against the rules of the forum. Proselytizing is forbidden. No one is permitted to try to convert you. You are not permitted to try to get someone to convert to Islam.

Welcome to the forum.

Uncle Jonah,
I've changed myself and have been fewer fool than before.
I don't want to convert one,
I introduce the beliefs that i've realized that are facts/truths to others, the others are those who optionally choose or reject and introduce opposite sayings/beliefs to me that i choose or reject and bring opposite sayings to them
And at all it's the same Debating!
What then!!?

 

[RabbiO]

Those group followers of Samiri that name themselves Jews......

And by this you mean to infer what?

 

[Yusef]

What do sayings have to do with your original question?

The original question is that:
I was scientific person and my viewpoints were just based on the science,
Then i was been a religious boy since 2009 and saw that full of sciences!
Be patient while I post other threads higher than this!

And other hand i wanna show you that:
With sciences/knowledges of today, we can realize the Religion easily!
As I brought the Virtual DVD ROM for example to realize that God Has no body!
Be patient...

 

[RabbiO]

The original question is that:
I was scientific person and my viewpoints were just based on the science,
Then i was been a religious boy since 2009 and saw that full of sciences!
Be patient while I post other threads higher than this!

And other hand i wanna show you that:
With sciences/knowledges of today, we can realize the Religion easily!
As I brought the Virtual DVD ROM for example to realize that God Has no body!
Be patient...

One of the problems you’re going to have is that no matter how good your ideas may be - and I am making no value judgement about them here - your English writing skills are so poor that they make what you write borderline unintelligible.

 

[VoidoftheSun]

And by this you mean to infer what?

From the bit you quoted in his original post, I gather he's referring to certain anthropomorphic depiction of HaShem in the story of Ya'aqob (Jacob) during the end of Sefer Beresit. Most Jews of course would obviously reject taking it literally.

 

[RabbiO]

From the bit you quoted in his original post, I gather he's referring to certain anthropomorphic depiction of HaShem in the story of Ya'aqob (Jacob) during the end of Sefer Beresit. Most Jews of course would obviously reject taking it literally.

I understand that. I was specifically referring to the “group followers of Samiri who call themselves Jews”.

 

[VoidoftheSun]

I understand that. I was specifically referring to the “group followers of Samiri who call themselves Jews”.

Basically in simplest language, by that he means that be believes those anthropomorphic references are remnants of the idolatrous Israelites (the same one Moshe chastises in Parsha Devarim). In part what he refers to is part of the general view of distortion of scripture, take it as ye will.

In my own view (as I'm a Shi'ite like him) I don't believe that presumably anthropomorphic references in scripture have ever been there to be taken literally as they're obviously symbolic of other things, I find it quite self-explanatory really though.

 

[viole]

Shi'a-Hadiths
"Duty of the believers is running toward scientists, and duty of the scientists is sharing their own knowledge"

Well, I am sure they share their knowledge. However, when they insist that men and pigs share the same common ancestor, believers seem to run away.

Ciao

- viole

 

[Yusef]

And by this you mean to infer what?

I mean to infer the thing you are going to wrong!
First of all the Samiri is one who made the Golden Calf for you Jews then you think it was the prophet Aaron[pbuh] - May God Guide and Forgive us.

Second,
This is the Greatness of The Greatest that you worshippers of Samiri and Paul than worshipping Yahweh/Allah imagine what i don't know:
Also the fool scientists that think they have arrived at the edges of the cosmos!!
Nope.
I bring that in another thread for atheist scientists.

And for this thread i can say:
The only wprk that The Almighty God Is Not Able to Do, it's Creating an other god as followers of Paul say!
How!?
Here you are:
Imagine since the Time has been begun/started;
There was nothing! Even the Empty there wasn't!
And step and step to the past...
There was nothing but A thing!
And It Is God!
Therefore everything even if He Himself Wills to be an other god, it's impossible because the second stuff after God, it would be a creature! Not a creator!
I create an other thread about Greatness of the Multiverse for the fool arrogant scientists of space...
Be patient...

 

[Polymath257]

Your inner peace and mental health are the most important things and that is what religion should provide.

Science is indeed great but not as important as religion.

I disagree. My ego isn't important at all, except to me.

Science, and the understanding of the world around me is *far* more important.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

Hi 2 all followers of science, Theists and Atheists.
Well,
I want to show you that 3 or 4 concepts of the most important concepts of religious debaters we can prove by today's science!
Then the reader tells himself that what the fool i was!

Shi'a-Hadiths
"Duty of the believers is running toward scientists, and duty of the scientists is sharing their own knowledge"

Well,
First of all the concept:
Is god like man!?
I searched in the google and found every nonsense from famous priests of End Time whom the Prophet(S.A.W.A.A) said: "in AkhiruzZaman[End Times] the world sees dirtiest priests..."

They haven't quoted the Hadiths! But told many nonsense from themselves and i couldn't find the same Hadith to copy/paste here :l

See again:
Genesis 1:27 "So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them"

Prophet Muhammad(S.A.W.A.A) in reaction of one who insulted one and was told: May God make your face ugly... said : "Don't insult the face that God Has Made it like His Own face!"

Well,
A group of sunni/muslims say: it's the reason for know material god!!

many groups of dirty priests of shia and sunni muslims both say their own nonsense

Shi'a Hadith
Imam 6th, Ja'far As-Sadeq(pbuh) said: "...it's like when one says: *the house of God[Ka'bah] or the friend of God[Abraham] or the spirit of God[Jesus]...."

According to the proverb: anything is difficult before it be easy

Well,
Now i realized what meaning it has was had!! Haha

Imagine owner of company of the Ford commands many types/models of cars, and chooses the model F650 for himself among all models, and say it's mine. then Japan or Germany ask him to import.. Then the owner says: i will export 200,000 cars to you like myself! It doesn't prove that the F650 is like the owner with hands, feet, eyes, dress!! But it means like owner's car!

IT WAS THAT ALL
Do you have any opposite saying!?
Bring!

In the end, it is a subjective assessment of two items. This can literally be done with anything at all, regardless whether they are of the same "type" or not. So all you naysayers saying they aren't "opposing forces" or whatever - that is irrelevant. As it stands, the question is answerable by anyone with an opinion of their own.

For my own purposes, I prefer oranges to coffee - as an example of two unrelated things that one might ask about, and I might give my subjective assessment.

In the case of "religion" put up against "science" - I believe "science" to be the greater of the 2, hands down. Someone with a different opinion may come to a different assessment... and that's fine. Incorrect in my opinion (haha), but fine.

 

[firedragon]

Hi 2 all followers of science, Theists and Atheists.
Well,
I want to show you that 3 or 4 concepts of the most important concepts of religious debaters we can prove by today's science!
Then the reader tells himself that what the fool i was!

Shi'a-Hadiths
"Duty of the believers is running toward scientists, and duty of the scientists is sharing their own knowledge"

Well,
First of all the concept:
Is god like man!?
I searched in the google and found every nonsense from famous priests of End Time whom the Prophet(S.A.W.A.A) said: "in AkhiruzZaman[End Times] the world sees dirtiest priests..."

They haven't quoted the Hadiths! But told many nonsense from themselves and i couldn't find the same Hadith to copy/paste here :l

See again:
Genesis 1:27 "So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them"

Prophet Muhammad(S.A.W.A.A) in reaction of one who insulted one and was told: May God make your face ugly... said : "Don't insult the face that God Has Made it like His Own face!"

Well,
A group of sunni/muslims say: it's the reason for know material god!!

many groups of dirty priests of shia and sunni muslims both say their own nonsense

Shi'a Hadith
Imam 6th, Ja'far As-Sadeq(pbuh) said: "...it's like when one says: *the house of God[Ka'bah] or the friend of God[Abraham] or the spirit of God[Jesus]...."

According to the proverb: anything is difficult before it be easy

Well,
Now i realized what meaning it has was had!! Haha

Imagine owner of company of the Ford commands many types/models of cars, and chooses the model F650 for himself among all models, and say it's mine. then Japan or Germany ask him to import.. Then the owner says: i will export 200,000 cars to you like myself! It doesn't prove that the F650 is like the owner with hands, feet, eyes, dress!! But it means like owner's car!

IT WAS THAT ALL
Do you have any opposite saying!?
Bring!

Comparing religion and science cannot be done. It’s wrong in every manner possible. This is only done by people who wish to make a religion of their own. It’s a straw man created to attack and to be attacked so that you could create your own platform of discussion to create your own religion based on either religion or science.

 

[stvdv]

Hi 2 all followers of science, Theists and Atheists.

Science Vs Religion which one is the greater?

Science is below the mind
Spirituality is above the mind

They both deal with different matters
So, I think it is not Wise to call 1 greater than the other