Is God Observable?

[Milton Platt]

so do we observe the image of anything, or the actions of a thing in theory? in reality?

we observe the action of a thing. we don't observe the form of a thing because things can evolve in form.

god is a verb. languages evolve too

Genesis Chapter 1 (KJV)


And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.

Technically, we only see the image formed in the brain from photons bouncing off of the object in question.

But we can sidestep that for now.

Why does the potential for evolution prevent one from seeing a thing (or object, more correctly)? How are you using the term evolution in this case? It must be a non-standard useage.

Suppose for the sake of the argument that virtually everything is evolving or changing at a continual rate around us. We would still observe the thing as it is at the moment of observation. When we observed it later, we would see the evolved version. But in each instance, we observed the thing.

Can you be more clear on what you mean? You have yet to lay out any argument for discussion. Do you have a point, and can you support it coherently?

 

[Milton Platt]

Thats abract. Energy is eternal and infinite.

How do you know?

 

[Milton Platt]

If God is an actual thing, then can thing be observed given the lack of a form but not it's energy?



IMO yes because actions can be observed by their effects upon other things. Like the wind upon the leaves of a tree, or a vane. Or like a mind upon the course of someone's actions towards another.

What things can we observe that can have no other possible explanations besides a god?

 

[osgart]

intelligent design is so overly simple in its evidences; like a fruit tree or a hand.

God is taking creation to extremes however.
because the design is severely flawed.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

How do you know?

How do I know energy is infinite? Nothing can exist without energy. How would it have a beginning? I don't understand the question.

Didn't feel like researching

"Energy is eternal for our universe ,there is nothing except energy in our universe. ... According to the Law of Conservation of energy (Energy can neither be created nor destroyed, only transferred), yes; Energy is eternal." Ol' Wiki​

As for the abstract, infinite and eternal are not concrete words like chair, pencil, and computer. Same as love, compassion, and all of that. John Doe loves, he dies, his spirit/energy lives on. Everything interconnected. People's energy continue to live through their environment and the people and objects they love and so forth.

But you're making eternal and infinite as if it's a special thing. It's not. How does that define a specific god?

 

[Milton Platt]

How do I know energy is infinite? Nothing can exist without energy. How would it have a beginning? I don't understand the question.

Didn't feel like researching

"Energy is eternal for our universe ,there is nothing except energy in our universe. ... According to the Law of Conservation of energy (Energy can neither be created nor destroyed, only transferred), yes; Energy is eternal." Ol' Wiki​

As for the abstract, infinite and eternal are not concrete words like chair, pencil, and computer. Same as love, compassion, and all of that. John Doe loves, he dies, his spirit/energy lives on. Everything interconnected. People's energy continue to live through their environment and the people and objects they love and so forth.

But you're making eternal and infinite as if it's a special thing. It's not. How does that define a specific god?

Are you mixing up posts? Or maybe am I? I am not advocating for a specific god....I am not advocating for any kind of god at all.

Many words have multiple meanings, since it is the people using the words that assign meaning, that is true.

What are alternate definitions of the two words infinite and eternal? As I understand them, infinite means essentially unending especially in measure.....infinitely large, infinitely long, etc.

As far as eternal, something can be eternal without being infinite, can it not? Yes, it will exist for an infinite time, but the thing that exists is not infinite. It may have specific dimensions that are measurable. There may be a finite amount of energy and matter that always exists, therefore it is eternal but not infinite, right?

Also, the wiki article says energy is eternal for our universe, not independently eternal. It is presumptuous to say our universe will last for infiniti. If our universe ends, then energy will end within it, is this not so?

 

[Fool]

Rocks are part of nature. Gasses are part of nature liquids a part of nature. The vacuum in space is part of nature. Where do they demonstrate love? If god is nature, then you can just use the word we already have for that, which is......drum roll...........NATURE. You can dispense with the other term and we can talk about nature. None of this addresses the "god is love" concept.

actually you're term for love is not necessarily the way it was conveyed 2000+ years ago.

love is not outside of nature, or the nature of self awareness.

 

[Milton Platt]

actually you're term for love is not necessarily the way it was conveyed 2000+ years ago.

love is not outside of nature, or the nature of self awareness.

I did not list a single thing outside of nature, so I don't understand your coment. What love meant to individual people 2,000 years ago was just as varied as it is today. What is your point? You repeatedly make disjointed comments that do nothing to address the points in my posts.

 

[Fool]

I did not list a single thing outside of nature, so I don't understand your coment. What love meant to individual people 2,000 years ago was just as varied as it is today. What is your point? You repeatedly make disjointed comments that do nothing to address the points in my posts.

the problem is language. God is not promoted as a thing apart, or outside of self.

being dismissive isn't being objective. it is being judgmental.

 

[crowfeather]

What things can we observe that can have no other possible explanations besides a god?

Mystery. Everything the mind is unable to process and identify. Yet Mystery exists, in spite of man's inability to make sense of it.

 

[Milton Platt]

Mystery. Everything the mind is unable to process and identify. Yet Mystery exists, in spite of man's inability to make sense of it.

Mysteries are merely thing we DO NOT understand. Not understanding something does not mean it will not be eventually understood and certainly does not mean a deity was the cause.

Mystery exist because we have not figured it out, not in spite of that fact. Once figured out, they are no longer mysteries.

I specifically asked which things we UNDERSTAND so far have not had a natural explanation. If it is something we don't yet fully understand....then we just don't know the answer, hence a mystery.

I know of nothing we UNDERSTAND so far out of thousands of years of figuring things out, that has turned out to have the supernatural as a cause for it to be as it is. So it is logical to assume that they will continue to be natural in origin in the future. Can that change? Sure.....but it hasn't happened yet, and given the history of discovery so far, it seems highly improbable.

 

[Milton Platt]

the problem is language. God is not promoted as a thing apart, or outside of self.

being dismissive isn't being objective. it is being judgmental.

When was I dismissive? I merely pointed out the problems with your post. I see no reason not to make judgements about your ideas. If you want your ideas accepted out of hand with no scrutiny, you are on the wrong forum.

I have no idea whar you mean by the first two sentences in this post, you will have to explain yourself. I would appreciate it if you would go back through my posts and make an effort to respond to the things I have posted. So far, you have not, but tend ro just make one or two sentence posts that tell me nothing.

 

[Kartari]

Hi Fool,

i wasn't speaking of a deity apart from self.

god is natural. even elephants, dolphins are capable of some form of love. there is familial love and then there is love that transcends familialism. there have been seen instance of interspecies friendships across the spectrum.

Ok. Well, there are so many deity concepts floating around, it's difficult to know what anyone is describing when they use words like God.

If we are speaking of something natural, like a universal form of love being akin to God, then, personally speaking, I fail to see the point in referring to it as God. Why not simply call it love? To call it God, to me, injects a nebulous term into discussions, adding unnecessary confusion to them. But whatever floats one's boat, I say.

 

[David T]

If God is an actual thing, then can thing be observed given the lack of a form but not it's energy?



IMO yes because actions can be observed by their effects upon other things. Like the wind upon the leaves of a tree, or a vane. Or like a mind upon the course of someone's actions towards another.

That's an Interesting interpretation obviously you have not spent Any time in nature and away from books. In the old testament Israel spends 40 years immersed in nature away from civilization. They become nomadic, out of captivity from civilization. They spend an exceptional amount of time immersed in nature rather than sitting around reading about it and it does change their perspective. As soon as they settle down become "civilized" nature and God become two separated realities. All truth starts in a book. That's nonsense of course but normal.

 

[David T]

Thats abract. Energy is eternal and infinite.

I like the term unbounded carlita!!! It takes it away from the math heads. Lao Tzu said "what ever you say the Tao is is not the Tao. " so physical is larger than the term physical. There are visible and invisible qualities to the physical. This should not surprise us, the earth does not end at the horizion of where the ocean and the sky meet nore is the cosmos confined to the scale of a talking ivory tower called a cranium!!!

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I like the term unbounded carlita!!! It takes it away from the math heads. Lao Tzu said "what ever you say the Tao is is not the Tao. " so physical is larger than the term physical. There are visible and invisible qualities to the physical. This should not surprise us, the earth does not end at the horizion of where the ocean and the sky meet nore is the cosmos confined to the scale of a talking ivory tower called a cranium!!!

What is special about this all because it's unknown and mysterious, I guess?

 

[David T]

I am

What is special about this all because it's unknown and mysterious, I guess?

I am a pantheist by disposition not by intellect it's how I experience not what I believe. So indeed nature is a deep mystery and we are of it. I was invited to a religious studies group at a local university. I am going to go and say I am a part of university group studying, religious studies groups studying religion and there is a different group studying me studying religious studies groups studying religion studying their ancient texts!!! An interesting infinite mirror to say the least. The real mystery is why is that so "normal"?!!! It seems to me we have a serious problem!!!!

 

[FunctionalAtheist]

Is God Observable?

God/Brahman to me is the One consciousness that pervades everything. Consciousness can not be observed through our physical senses of course. God can not be observed but only experienced.

I find this confusing. There is little difference in observation and experience. Anything we experience is an observation.

 

[FunctionalAtheist]

G-d is not physically observable to us humans because G-d has no form and can't take a form.

Observation is not based on form. All of our senses detect energy patterns, external stimuli. If god can stimulate the senses, then he could be observed.

 

[FunctionalAtheist]

are experiences observable?

YES! In fact they are equivalent. Experiences are the things we observe. The things we observe are experiences. This implicates a broad meaning of observation. Smells, tastes,etc are observations.