Is God perfect?

[Kowalski]

This is carried on from the "God Debate"

Yes, E=Mc2 is the most beautiful equation, its elegance is part of its perfection, so in that sense, god is indeed perfect.

Cheers,

K

 

[pandamonk]

Then yes, he is perfect. If you can conceive a being that cannot have a want, I can conceive one that is greater - One that can have a want.

And i can think of one greater than yours. One which does not need to want, things just happen

 

[lilithu]

Perfect - Than which nothing greater can be conceived.

The definition that you give is for "infinite."

Perfect means "without fault", "lacking nothing that is essential its nature", "pure." And again I say whether or not something has "fault" or is "lacking" depends on the quality one is seeking. A perfect circle is not a perfect square. If you say God is perfect, I ask "perfect what?" I bet you dollars to donuts that the vast majority of you (who believe in God) do not believe that God is perfect evil or perfect stupidity (for examples). By saying that God is "perfect" you guys are assuming all of the positive attributes that you want God to be without actually thinking about what those positive attributes are. By itself, it's meaningless.

 

[Aqualung]

And i can think of one greater than yours. One which does not need to want, things just happen

Thta's not greater, though. I don't think it is a sign of un-greatness to want things. I think it is a greater sign of greatness.

 

[pandamonk]

The definition that you give is for "infinite."

So are you saying you can think of something greater than perfection?

 

[lilithu]

So are you saying you can think of something greater than perfection?

Dude, yes! I can think of a perfect circle, absolutely perfect with no flaws detracting from its circularness. And yet, I can think of something greater than that circle. Perfection and size are not the same. Nor is perfection inherently good.

 

[Kowalski]

God is perfect nothingness, now that is the defining defination of God.

K

 

[pandamonk]

Dude, yes! I can think of a perfect circle, absolutely perfect with no flaws detracting from its circularness. And yet, I can think of something greater than that circle. Perfection and size are not the same. Nor is perfection inherently good.

Great does not have to mean size. Like saying "the mona lisa is a great painting". This does not mean that it is a very big painting, as it is not, in this case it means that it is a very good painting.

 

[lilithu]

Great does not have to mean size. Like saying "the mona lisa is a great painting". This does not mean that it is a very big painting, as it is not, in this case it means that it is a very good painting.

"Nor is perfection inherently good."

 

[Meesheltx]

It is true that perfection is not inherently good. But I think a more appropriate question would be, is God perfectly good?

 

[pandamonk]

"Nor is perfection inherently good."

I did not say that perfection was inherently good.I said it was "Than which nothing greater can be conceived." I did not say "greater in goodness", i said greater, be it greatest stupidity or whatever. The rest was assumed by everyone else, including you.

 

[lilithu]

It is true that perfection is not inherently good. But I think a more appropriate question would be, is God perfectly good?

Bingo!! Give that lady a cigar!
(Well, instead of a cigar you're going to have to settle for some frubals. )

 

[pandamonk]

It is true that perfection is not inherently good. But I think a more appropriate question would be, is God perfectly good?

Yes, good question, but i started this post as we, in the God debate, were debating about a perfect god, and then came the question, "why does God have to be perfect anyway?"(or something along those lines)

 

[Kowalski]

All this stuff, is god this, is god that, groundless speculation speculation. Empirically, God is nothing but the laws of physics.......Bring on your God, let your God show itself, where is your God ? I suggest only in your collective heads, there is no reality in God, God is Illusion, Maya, Nothing. No-Thing.

Cheers
K

 

[lilithu]

I did not say that perfection was inherently good.I said it was "Than which nothing greater can be conceived." I did not say "greater in goodness", i said greater, be it greatest stupidity or whatever. The rest was assumed by everyone else, including you.

Dude, now you're going back to the size thing! Look, greater either means bigger (size), which you said two posts ago that it doesn't, or it means better (goodness), which you're saying now that it doesn't. Which one is it?

Either way, "that which nothing greater can be conceived" is not the proper definition for "perfect."

 

[pandamonk]

All this stuff, is god this, is god that, groundless speculation speculation. Empirically, God is nothing but the laws of physics.......Bring on your God, let your God show itself, where is your God ? I suggest only in your collective heads, there is no reality in God, God is Illusion, Maya, Nothing. No-Thing.

Cheers
K

Well said

 

[pandamonk]

Dude, now you're going back to the size thing! Look, greater either means bigger (size), which you said two posts ago that it doesn't, or it means better (goodness), which you're saying now that it doesn't. Which one is it?

Either way, "that which nothing greater can be conceived" is not the proper definition for "perfect."

It means both, depending on the context(i can't believe i just said that, lol, i sound like a Christian). It is a proper definition, not the. Like i said before, "can you think of anything greater than perfection", with all meanings of greater?

 

[pandamonk]

Also, by good painting, i did not mean that it does good things, i meant that it is well painted. Like done well. I cannot think of a better way to put this to say what i mean, aghh i hate the english language, i'm constantly stuggling with it.

 

[cardero]

I believe perfection to be a fulfillment of goals and the completion to purpose. In this definition I believe GOD has achieved perfection but we must consider the many moments that GOD has had to accomplish this. I do not think that perfection means doing everything right as opposed to doing wrong; these concepts are not part of GOD’s understanding.

 

[lilithu]

It means both, depending on the context(i can't believe i just said that, lol, i sound like a Christian). It is a proper definition, not the. Like i said before, "can you think of anything greater than perfection", with all meanings of greater?

I already gave you an example of where I can think of something "greater," with both meanings of "greater." Are you saying that you can't think of anything "greater" than a perfect circle? Perfection by itself is not an attribute; it is only the measure of an attribute. Without a specified attribute, "perfect" makes no sense. "Wholly perfect" and "Perfectly perfect" sound nice but are meaningless.

I am repeating myself to no avail so with that I wash my hands of this argument.