Is God playing a game of Hide and Seek?

[Man of Faith]

It makes sense to me, and we are willing or unwilling participants, in order for the growth of our virtue. Then that would mean that our debating the existence of God with atheists, through reason, the wisdom of this world or through science is really not effective. I believe us Christians and theists have all seen that where no matter what the evidence for God is it is always discounted or rebuffed.

Is this somehow in God's divine plan? There are three things that will last forever according the scriptures, faith, hope, and love. And faith is a prerequisite to please God. And Hope can only exist in a creation where God is hidden from plain view. So it would be impossible to exercise the virtues of faith and hope in a universe where God is plainly visible or provable.

Psalm 89:46 O LORD, how long will this go on?
Will you hide yourself forever?
How long will your anger burn like fire?

Deuteronomy 4:29 But from there you will search again for the LORD your God. And if you search for him with all your heart and soul, you will find him.

There are other verses that say to seek the Lord:
1 Chronicles 16:11
2 Chronicles 15:13
Psalm 34:10
Psalm 105:4

Hebrews 11:6 And it is impossible to please God without faith. Anyone who wants to come to him must believe that God exists and that he rewards those who sincerely seek him.

Romans 8:24 We were given this hope when we were saved. (If we already have something, we don't need to hope for it) 25But if we look forward to something we don't yet have, we must wait patiently and confidently.)

Romans 4:3 For the Scriptures tell us, "Abraham believed God, and God counted him as righteous because of his faith."

 

[Heneni]

Hi there here is a thread about the same topic if it will interest you.

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/scriptural-debates/69322-god-playing-hide-seek.html

My understanding is that god hides himself from some in the context of a relationship. But I aslo believe that god wants to make a name for himself as discussed here.

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/general-religious-debates/83794-does-god-want-famous.html

God bless!
Heneni

 

[Man of Faith]

Hi there here is a thread about the same topic if it will interest you.

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/scriptural-debates/69322-god-playing-hide-seek.html

My understanding is that god hides himself from some in the context of a relationship. But I aslo believe that god wants to make a name for himself as discussed here.

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/general-religious-debates/83794-does-god-want-famous.html

God bless!
Heneni

Cool thanks, I missed it. It looks like my post answered your questions.

 

[richardlowellt]

It makes sense to me, and we are willing or unwilling participants, in order for the growth of our virtue. Then that would mean that our debating the existence of God with atheists, through reason, the wisdom of this world or through science is really not effective. I believe us Christians and theists have all seen that where no matter what the evidence for God is it is always discounted or rebuffed.

Is this somehow in God's divine plan? There are three things that will last forever according the scriptures, faith, hope, and love. And faith is a prerequisite to please God. And Hope can only exist in a creation where God is hidden from plain view. So it would be impossible to exercise the virtues of faith and hope in a universe where God is plainly visible or provable.

Psalm 89:46 O LORD, how long will this go on?
Will you hide yourself forever?
How long will your anger burn like fire?

Deuteronomy 4:29 But from there you will search again for the LORD your God. And if you search for him with all your heart and soul, you will find him.

There are other verses that say to seek the Lord:
1 Chronicles 16:11
2 Chronicles 15:13
Psalm 34:10
Psalm 105:4

Hebrews 11:6 And it is impossible to please God without faith. Anyone who wants to come to him must believe that God exists and that he rewards those who sincerely seek him.

Romans 8:24 We were given this hope when we were saved. (If we already have something, we don't need to hope for it) 25But if we look forward to something we don't yet have, we must wait patiently and confidently.)

Romans 4:3 For the Scriptures tell us, "Abraham believed God, and God counted him as righteous because of his faith."

The main problem with your post is there is NO evidence of God. You say "No matter what the evidence of God is" we non-believers always refute it, when in fact you have zero evidence of this God. You only have two choices here, things from the naturalistic realm, and things from the supernatural realm. Nothing in the supernatural realm can be examined or tested. If you want to say you believe this God exists, that acceptable, but you can't say you have evidence for such a being.

 

[Man of Faith]

The main problem with your post is there is NO evidence of God. You say "No matter what the evidence of God is" we non-believers always refute it, when in fact you have zero evidence of this God. You only have two choices here, things from the naturalistic realm, and things from the supernatural realm. Nothing in the supernatural realm can be examined or tested. If you want to say you believe this God exists, that acceptable, but you can't say you have evidence for such a being.

This goes along with the OP, non-believers are not given the spirit of discernment when it comes to seeing evidence for God until they put their faith in him first. Once faith and hope are activated then the Holy Spirit comes to dwell into the individual and they can see clearly then.

If you are talking about scientific evidence then the same scientific evidence that people use to say there is no God can be used to say that there is a God. Our world view determines how we interpret the same evidence as for or against the existence of God.

 

[OmarKhayyam]

This goes along with the OP, non-believers are not given the spirit of discernment when it comes to seeing evidence for God until they put their faith in him first. Once faith and hope are activated then the Holy Spirit comes to dwell into the individual and they can see clearly then.

If you are talking about scientific evidence then the same scientific evidence that people use to say there is no God can be used to say that there is a God. Our world view determines how we interpret the same evidence as for or against the existence of God.

When you decide to believe then viola - you will believe.

And we are suppose to regard this self imposed belief as evidence of something independent of our imagination.

God: Man's noblest invention. Forever resident in the believer's mind. And nowhere else.

 

[richardlowellt]

This goes along with the OP, non-believers are not given the spirit of discernment when it comes to seeing evidence for God until they put their faith in him first. Once faith and hope are activated then the Holy Spirit comes to dwell into the individual and they can see clearly then.

If you are talking about scientific evidence then the same scientific evidence that people use to say there is no God can be used to say that there is a God. Our world view determines how we interpret the same evidence as for or against the existence of God.

There is however, good scientific evidence that can point to a non existent God. Read Victor Stenger's book, God The Failed Hypothesis.

How does one put their faith in a non entity? Why not put your faith in an Alien race creating all there is? Show me the difference.

 

[Storm]

There is however, good scientific evidence that can point to a non existent God.

Please, cite it.

 

[Vile Atheist]

No evidence for God means there is no reason to believe in God. Not only is there no naturalistic evidence for God, there is no purpose to God. God does not explain anything.

God is in the supernatural realm? Okay. The supernatural by definition is an unknown. You are merely replacing one unknown (origin of the universe/life) with another unknown (God).

And as such, you cannot claim to know God's properties, His wants or desires or "plan". They exist in the supernatural and therefore cannot even be discerned by us. Supernatural means that it exists outside the natural world. You cannot get any evidence to prove the existence of anything outside the natural world. Therefore, if not for millenia of religious indoctrination, what reason do you have for even having an inkling of a suspicion that God exists? You wouldn't. Simply for the matter that you don't know the supernatural world exists, regardless if it actually does or not.

Edit: To add further. You can claim that God tampers in the naturalistic world in order to punish/beat/kill/enslave humans and this is evidence of God. However, tampering in the naturalistic world would leave naturalistic evidence of tampering that we can attribute to an entity that does not exist in the natural world. Yet, we have not observed this thus far. This is not to mention the properties of God are self-contradictory. Can God microwave a burrito so hot that He Himself cannot eat it? Hmmm?

 

[tomspug]

The main problem with your post is there is NO evidence of God. You say "No matter what the evidence of God is" we non-believers always refute it, when in fact you have zero evidence of this God. You only have two choices here, things from the naturalistic realm, and things from the supernatural realm. Nothing in the supernatural realm can be examined or tested. If you want to say you believe this God exists, that acceptable, but you can't say you have evidence for such a being.

Pfft. Imagine that you want us to draw a picture of God on concrete and give us nothing but a stick, so you say that we don't know what God looks like, since we can't draw it.

I see God not only in nature, but in virtue and the acts of men. I see God in the lives of my friends and in my own life. I have seen people literally transformed from sorrow to joy, pain to healing, loneliness to comfort. All you want is science, physical form, which is coincidentally the one thing that cannot be provided, save for the alleged existence of Jesus Christ, which is apparently not worth considering seriously.

 

[Vile Atheist]

Pfft. Imagine that you want us to draw a picture of God on concrete and give us nothing but a stick, so you say that we don't know what God looks like, since we can't draw it.

I see God not only in nature, but in virtue and the acts of men. I see God in the lives of my friends and in my own life. I have seen people literally transformed from sorrow to joy, pain to healing, loneliness to comfort. All you want is science, physical form, which is coincidentally the one thing that cannot be provided, save for the alleged existence of Jesus Christ, which is apparently not worth considering seriously.

For one, that's a horrible analogy. If you had evidence, you would have a jackhammer with which to etch the image of Jesus Christ into that concrete. But you don't. If you don't have any evidence for what you claim, how can you expect us to believe you that God exists?

You don't see God in nature. You have a pre-conceived notion of God and then project Him into naturalistic objects and events. This is why atheists don't go around saying "I was walking in the garden and now I believe in Jesus Christ! Oh Hosanna!!!!!" You would dismiss anyone who does that as insane. If rhododendrons are your evidence for God, then you and I have different standards of evidence, mine being far superior to yours because it requires more. A prerequisite of more evidence means more certainty that a claim is truthful.

I have seen atheists being transformed emotionally going the opposite way too - from being depressed theists to free and clear-thinking and happy atheists. I should know. I was one of them.

We "want science" because science has single-handedly skyrocketed our understanding of life and the universe, tripled our life expectancy, feeds the world, made our lives much more convenient. It is the only path from the moral and intellectual stagnation that is religion.

If you wish to persist in your delusions, that's your every right and I defend it. But don't claim you are moral because of it and don't claim that you are right despite you having no evidence.