Is God's existence necessary?

[Thief]

Every effect is also a cause; every cause is also an effect. You may say, if you like, that "God" is that which encompasses all these cause/effects, but you have no good reason to make such a claim while I may say that the universe is that which encompasses all cause and effect, and that's at least somewhat apparent.

separate the two before you connect them
The cause is not the effect.
the effect is not the cause.

then realize you cannot separate them
you can't have one without the other.

the Cause will precede the effect.
Spirit first ....THEN the universe

 

[prometheus11]

I think you misunderstood my post.

 

[viole]

In your opinion, if alpha constant not being constant holds up... which so far it has passed all of the variables thrown at it.... How would it affect the block universe/eternalism?

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/09/100909004112.htm

http://m.phys.org/news/2010-09-variations-fine-structure-constant-laws-physics.html

It does not affect, even if true, the block universe theory at all.

It would just entail that alpha is different in different locations of the block Universe.

Ciao

- viole

 

[Rick O'Shez]

The "yes" share of the vote has gone down even further.

 

[CATSISS]

It depends on what "God" is.

I would totally say its necesarry if its the spaggetho god hehe

 

[Thief]

I think you misunderstood my post.

you need to elaborate.....or rebuttal mine a bit more...

 

[Thief]

The "yes" share of the vote has gone down even further.

the majority might seem to rule.....but.....
many people have the wrong idea for sooooooooooo many centuries.....

then comes the light.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

many people have the wrong idea for sooooooooooo many centuries.....

Yep, about 2000 years in this case.

 

[Thief]

Yep, about 2000 years in this case.

you might want to expand on that!
nonbelieving has been around much longer!

 

[Rick O'Shez]

nonbelieving has been around much longer!

No, before "God" it was all nice jolly pagans with a good selection of gods to choose from, much more fun.

 

[CATSISS]

While the essence of God is unknowabe for us I believe God has sent Messengers and Prophets to guide us... as humans in a progressive direction...so yes God is "necessary" for us to progress. God has progressively revealed Himself to us through the Prophets which include the teachings that are necessary for our advancement.

I dont know if its because you are an old man or what but,we dont need god to be more advance especially if the"god" itself prohibited questioning,reasoning and logic.

 

[leibowde84]

Wrong. We must posit a necessary being in order to account for a world of contingent beings.

(A contingent being is dependent on some other being for its existence.)

You have yet to support your argument that we are contingent beings. Can u do that?

 

[Thief]

No, before "God" it was all nice jolly pagans with a good selection of gods to choose from, much more fun.

nay again....
I read Genesis such that Man was no more than a species set loose on this planet.
in the initial form....just an animal that learned quick.

 

[prometheus11]

you need to elaborate.....or rebuttal mine a bit more...

No. Your reply did not address my post. You either misunderstood my post and you need to reassess it to understand where you went wrong, or you don't have the ability to understand my post enough to see how your response is a non sequitur.

So either read and comprehend and answer, or don't (because of a lack of desire or ability).

The ball is in your court.

 

[Thief]

No. Your reply did not address my post. You either misunderstood my post and you need to reassess it to understand where you went wrong, or you don't have the ability to understand my post enough to see how your response is a non sequitur.

So either read and comprehend and answer, or don't (because of a lack of desire or ability).

The ball is in your court.

no one owes you a reply....
and leading the discussion with question will fail

back to you.

 

[prometheus11]

You are most definitely correct on all counts, thief.

 

[arthra]

I dont know if its because you are an old man or what but,we dont need god to be more advance especially if the"god" itself prohibited questioning,reasoning and logic.

Thanks for your reply "Catsiss"... I guess age is a relative concept... You are younger?

Anyway... You raise the question did God prohibit questioning, reasoning and logic?

Not in my Faith...Questions are encouraged,, as is reasoning.

"God has endowed man with intelligence and reason whereby he is required to determine the verity of questions and propositions. If religious beliefs and opinions are found contrary to the standards of science they are mere superstitions and imaginations; for the antithesis of knowledge is ignorance, and the child of ignorance is superstition. Unquestionably there must be agreement between true religion and science. If a question be found contrary to reason, faith and belief in it are impossible and there is no outcome but wavering and vacillation."

~ Abdu'l-Baha

I think the issue for me may be that if we require God to be defined by us we may be disappointed.

 

[CATSISS]

Thanks for your reply "Catsiss"... I guess age is a relative concept... You are younger?

Anyway... You raise the question did God prohibit questioning, reasoning and logic?

Not in my Faith...Questions are encouraged,, as is reasoning.

"God has endowed man with intelligence and reason whereby he is required to determine the verity of questions and propositions. If religious beliefs and opinions are found contrary to the standards of science they are mere superstitions and imaginations; for the antithesis of knowledge is ignorance, and the child of ignorance is superstition. Unquestionably there must be agreement between true religion and science. If a question be found contrary to reason, faith and belief in it are impossible and there is no outcome but wavering and vacillation."

~ Abdu'l-Baha

I think the issue for me may be that if we require God to be defined by us we may be disappointed.

How do you know god existed in the first place?,is it because you need a comforting figure in your life?

 

[arthra]

How do you know god existed in the first place?,is it because you need a comforting figure in your life?

Thanks for your post "Catsiss"...

I already have a "comforting figure" in my life... I married her!

But how do I "know" God you ask ... God isn't just in the "first place"... God is now and beyond my future... that's my belief..

One of the reasons for me I suppose for this belief is knowledge we have about the Messengers of God... How They lived and what They did is instructive and provides guidance. For that we need to seek and find.

 

[CATSISS]

Thanks for your post "Catsiss"...

I already have a "comforting figure" in my life... I married her!

But how do I "know" God you ask ... God isn't just in the "first place"... God is now and beyond my future... that's my belief..

One of the reasons for me I suppose for this belief is knowledge we have about the Messengers of God... How They lived and what They did is instructive and provides guidance. For that we need to seek and find.

Well i suppose you arent those typical theist that need god to comfort them