Is God's existence necessary?

[prometheus11]

Sure.

https://www.cfa.harvard.edu/news/2011-04

Do you doubt the existence of gravity?

 

[Milton Platt]

No...dark energy is not measurable...there is a difference between numerical simulations that predict the presence of a reality represented by the term dark energy...but numerical models are not real direct measurements of dark energy...

This from the article referencing a research paper on what the universe is made of....which to my reading implies only 2.5% of the universe is measurable..the remaining 97.5% is known to exist by numerical simulation...but not measurable..

Matter known as ordinary, which makes up everything we know, corresponds to only 5% of the Universe. Approximately half of this percentage still eluded detection. Numerical simulations made it possible to predict that the rest of this ordinary matter should be located in the large-scale structures that form the 'cosmic web' at temperatures between 100,000 and 10 million degrees. A team led by a researcher from the University of Geneva (UNIGE), Switzerland, observed this phenomenon directly. The research shows that the majority of the missing ordinary matter is found in the form of a very hot gas associated with intergalactic filaments. The article reporting this discovery is published in the journal Nature.

http://spaceref.com/astronomy/what-is-the-universe-made-of.html

The fluctuations of the cosmic microwave background (CMB) are the imprint of structure in the early universe. The angular sizes (shown in the plot on the right) of the fluctuations tell cosmologists about the amount of dark matter, dark energy, and ordinary matter in the universe.
CMB map: NASA/WMAP Science Team; Data plot: Astronomy: Roen Kelly after NASA/WMAP Science Team
The data plot shows the power in these

So, scientists DO measure dark matter and dark energy. They measure the effects and extrapolate from there. Just like we know how long it takes for Pluto to complete an orbit of the sun, even though it takes longer than we have actually known Pluto existed.

 

[Thief]

Science is certainly still relatively new, and constantly improving upon itself. So, how can you be so sure that there won't some day be evidence?

same question....right back at you.....
but I don't believe science can answer the op....

the choice remains...

 

[Thief]

You keep pushing your false dichotomy like a drug dealer desperate to score a sell....
The desperation that flows from your posts is rather sad.

I see your post as an emotional denial.

I also see a reluctance to choose....
Spirit first?....or substance.

use your head.....it's not hard....

or maybe it is.

 

[prometheus11]

Thief, do you think there will always be some mystery in this human life?

Is it right to insist on arbitrary selection among two choices if many options exist?

Do you imagine that the answers to some of life's questions are beyond the contemplative power of the human brain?

 

[prometheus11]

I see your post as an emotional denial.

I also see a reluctance to choose....
Spirit first?....or substance.

use your head.....it's not hard....

or maybe it is.

Thief, why do you keep denying the obvious and simple truth that spirit and substance are one and the same which, as two sides of a coin, exist for each other and because of each other and precisely define and describe each other in being exactly what the other is not?

 

[Thief]

Thief, do you think there will always be some mystery in this human life?

Is it right to insist on arbitrary selection among two choices if many options exist?

Do you imagine that the answers to some of life's questions are beyond the contemplative power of the human brain?

no mystery at all.....
the design of the body is obvious....

We are here to learn all that we can before we die.
We form unique spirit and soul on each occasion.

 

[Milton Platt]

same question....right back at you.....
but I don't believe science can answer the op....

the choice remains...

Yep, how is science supposed to satisfy a personal opinion???

 

[Thief]

Thief, why do you keep denying the obvious and simple truth that spirit and substance are one and the same which, as two sides of a coin, exist for each other and because of each other and precisely define and describe each other in being exactly what the other is not?

some of us are going to fail.
as if we were never born.....back to the dust we came from....

life ....has requirements.

 

[Thief]

Yep, how is science supposed to satisfy a personal opinion???

so....you are able to see the 'person' in the question.
your own.....and His?

 

[Milton Platt]

so....you are able to see the 'person' in the question.
your own.....and His?

Not sure I follow. I think whether to believe the existence of a god is necessary or not is a personal choice. Of course, believing it necessary is not the same as it actually being so.

 

[Thief]

Not sure I follow. I think whether to believe the existence of a god is necessary or not is a personal choice. Of course, believing it necessary is not the same as it actually being so.

as human, we titter over the brink of not existing.
we will die of body and we could also die of mind and heart.

God is believed to be Spirit, without the fault of death.

if He does not exist .....the universe is moving to death.
permanently

 

[Thief]

The fluctuations of the cosmic microwave background (CMB) are the imprint of structure in the early universe. The angular sizes (shown in the plot on the right) of the fluctuations tell cosmologists about the amount of dark matter, dark energy, and ordinary matter in the universe.
CMB map: NASA/WMAP Science Team; Data plot: Astronomy: Roen Kelly after NASA/WMAP Science Team
The data plot shows the power in these

So, scientists DO measure dark matter and dark energy. They measure the effects and extrapolate from there. Just like we know how long it takes for Pluto to complete an orbit of the sun, even though it takes longer than we have actually known Pluto existed.

this demonstrates the ability to observe an effect and realize the hidden cause.

the universe is the effect
God is the Cause.

 

[Milton Platt]

as human, we titter over the brink of not existing.
we will die of body and we could also die of mind and heart.

God is believed to be Spirit, without the fault of death.

if He does not exist .....the universe is moving to death.
permanently

I believe your first and last sentences are correct. Humans could easily become extinct...something like 99% of all species have already perished. And the universe as we know it will indeed come to an end.

 

[prometheus11]

Thief, do you imagine that you are winning arguments, here?

 

[Thief]

I believe your first and last sentences are correct. Humans could easily become extinct...something like 99% of all species have already perished. And the universe as we know it will indeed come to an end.

and without the Spirit....life (yours included) was an event without purpose, intent or resolve

 

[Thief]

Thief, do you imagine that you are winning arguments, here?

denial is a losing argument....

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Sure.

https://www.cfa.harvard.edu/news/2011-04

Do you doubt the existence of gravity?

Did you read the article...there is no measurement of Dark Energy...it is only used as journalistic rhetoric for the story ..it would not be in the published paper itself... If Dark Energy could be measured, it would mean data about it and there is none... Now of course it is understood that detection of that which is represented by the concept of dark matter was first made by observation of gravity anomalies....but this is not a measurement of dark matter per se, but a first order effect of it, but this study is not even the gravitational first order effect, but as the article says... a sort of 'second-order effect' ... Read the article...

"Dark energy is the biggest mystery in physics and astronomy today. Now, we have a better way to tackle it," said Foley, who is a Clay Fellow at the Center. He presented his findings in a press conference at the 217th meeting of the American Astronomical Society.

The new tool also will help astronomers to firm up the cosmic distance scale by providing more accurate distances to faraway galaxies.

Type Ia supernovae are used as standard candles, meaning they have a known intrinsic brightness. However, they're not all equally bright. Astronomers have to correct for certain variations. In particular, there is a known correlation between how quickly the supernova brightens and dims (its light curve) and the intrinsic peak brightness

Even when astronomers correct for this effect, their measurements still show some scatter, which leads to inaccuracies when calculating distances and therefore the effects of dark energy. Studies looking for ways to make more accurate corrections have had limited success until now.

"We've been looking for this sort of 'second-order effect' for nearly two decades," said Foley.

Foley discovered that after correcting for how quickly Type Ia supernovae faded, they show a distinct relationship between the speed of their ejected material and their color: the faster ones are slightly redder and the slower ones are bluer.

Previously, astronomers assumed that redder explosions only appeared that way because of intervening dust, which would also dim the explosion and make it appear farther than it was. Trying to correct for this, they would incorrectly calculate that the explosion was closer than it appeared. Foley's work shows that some of the color difference is intrinsic to the supernova itself.

The new study succeeded for two reasons. First, it used a large sample of more than 100 supernovae. More importantly, it went back to "first principles" and reexamined the assumption that Type Ia supernovae are one average color.

- See more at: https://www.cfa.harvard.edu/news/2011-04#sthash.RHXtCcjs.dpuf

 

[prometheus11]

Ben, you keep ignoring gravity. Why?

We detect gravity and dark energy in the same way. We measure an effect on matter and KNOW that something we don't understand is working.

The measurements of one effect, we call "gravity."

The measurements of another effect, we call "dark energy."

You can deny the measurements or the names science has given them, but you can't claim gravity and dark energy aren't measured. The measurements came first, then people named them. In one case "gravity," and in the other case "dark energy."

So which FACT are you currently denying?

 

[prometheus11]

denial is a losing argument....

So, you're not going to answer?