Is God's existence necessary?

[prometheus11]

Let's move beyond the judgements of others and their beliefs in things that cannot be tested, or measured.

Ideas, yes ideas ideas. So what is your personal idea, beliefs/speculation on what "dark energy" is?

No idea.

Do you now agree that any complaints about dark energy must also be leveled against gravity.

 

[prometheus11]

Yes..we know big bang science says that....but what does science say caused the hot dense point? I mean this hot dense point could not have appeared without a cause...science so far as I understand it does not consider causeless effects a part of the scientific method as such claims are not falsifiable..yes?

Science does not comment on the reason for the existence of the singularity. It can't. Science is honest in respect to what it cannot measure, and, therefore comment on.

Neither do I.

Mythology cares not about honest representation and is free to speculate on such matters by way of plot sequence.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Science does not comment on the reason for the existence of the singularity. It can't. Science is honest in respect to what it cannot measure, and, therefore comment on.

Neither do I.

Mythology cares not about honest representation and is free to speculate on such matters by way of plot sequence.

You and I know that science can not comment.....but this is not honesty...this is a case of taking the fifth amendment...haha...

You can not measure something that did not occur...ever...ever....ever...and you go long with the myth of a beginning of something from nothing causeless singularity.....

 

[prometheus11]

You and I know that science can not comment.....but this is not honesty...this is a case of taking the fifth amendment...haha...

You can not measure something that did not occur...ever...ever....ever...and you go long with the myth of a beginning of something from nothing causeless singularity.....

Do you try to be obtuse? It's pretty childish behavior.

Science doesn't say that something came from nothing. Stop lying.

If you don't know the answer, the honest reply is, "I don't know the answer."

And if you understood the way telescopes work, you'd know that we can look back in time, and we have PROVED the inflation of the singularity and its subsequent expansion.

Forget about decent conversation, bendy, and go give your faith a good workout, instead.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Do you try to be obtuse? It's pretty childish behavior.

Science doesn't say that something came from nothing. Stop lying.

If you don't know the answer, the honest reply is, "I don't know the answer."

And if you understood the way telescopes work, you'd know that we can look back in time, and we have PROVED the inflation of the singularity and its subsequent expansion.

Forget about decent conversation, bendy, and go give your faith a good workout, instead.

There you go again with red shift talk...I know you would love to shift the talk to post big bang singularity and we will get to that in due time...but for now I am not properly understanding your position on the singularity except that apparently no one knows why it occurred or how it occurred...do I have this right that this is yours' and science's position?

 

[prometheus11]

There you go again with red shift talk...I know you would love to shift the talk to post big bang singularity and we will get to that in due time...but for now I am not properly understanding your position on the singularity except that apparently no one knows why it occurred or how it occurred...do I have this right that this is yours' and science's position?

Nope. Not talking about red shift at all. I'm talking about the microwave background radiation.

Science does not and cannot comment on anything before the initial moment of the singularity's inflationary epoch.

We don't even know enough to call the singularity an "occurrence,"

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Nope. Not talking about red shift at all. I'm talking about the microwave background radiation.

Science does not and cannot comment on anything before the initial moment of the singularity's inflationary epoch.

We don't even know enough to call the singularity an "occurrence,"

Ok...we can talk about CMBR too later.... I am not talking about time before the singularity...

I am asking about the precise beginning of the universe...Time = 0.. what caused Time = 0...and why did time and space begin? I know you do not know but I have to ask the question because as much as you want to get to red shift and CMBR, it is not relevant to the Time = 0, and unless we can understand what goes on in our mind as we go from timelessness into time...we may miss something that is vital to the scientific method...

 

[prometheus11]

Ok...we can talk about CMBR too later.... I am not talking about time before the singularity...

I am asking about the precise beginning of the universe...Time = 0.. what caused Time = 0...and why did time and space begin? I know you do not know but I have to ask the question because as much as you want to get to red shift and CMBR, it is not relevant to the Time = 0, and unless we can understand what goes on in our mind as we go from timelessness into time...we may miss something that is vital to the scientific method...

CMBR was after the singularity.

I don't care about CMBR other than it proves the singularity expanded.

Nobody is discussing red shift, so....

I "want to get" to nowhere in regards to them. They're your red herrings. Not mine.

I'm not interested in "time=0" either.

Something is not "vital to the scientific method" if it can't be measured.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

CMBR was after the singularity.

I don't care about CMBR other than it proves the singularity expanded.

Nobody is discussing red shift, so....

I "want to get" to nowhere in regards to them. They're your red herrings. Not mine.

I'm not interested in "time=0" either.

Something is not "vital to the scientific method" if it can't be measured.

I understand what CMBR is....technically...it's a case you not understanding context...but never mind...

But this is not any ol something not vital to the scientific method....Time = 0 is the very essence and foundation of the big bang theory...and you say...oh..it can't be measured so we will give the big bang theory a free pass wrt the scientific method...haha...

 

[prometheus11]

I understand what CMBR is....technically...it's a case you not understanding context...but never mind...

But this is not any ol something not vital to the scientific method....Time = 0 is the very essence and foundation of the big bang theory...and you say...oh..it can't be measured so we will give the big bang theory a free pass wrt the scientific method...haha...

You couldn't be more wrong. Not trying to hurt your feelings, but it's like when a three year old says that two plus two equals three.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

You couldn't be more wrong. Not trying to hurt your feelings, but it's like when a three year old says that two plus two equals three.

Oh yeh....where's your proof then....what caused Time = 0 ? And why was Time = 0 caused?

If these questions are not answered unambiguously, then that's that...you do not know...and if you do not know....but want to proceed and pretend it doesn't matter that something from nothing is an eternal impossibility....then nothing will unfold for you in deeper understanding...

 

[LuisDantas]

The idea that "something from nothing is an eternal impossiblity" manages to be both self-contradictory and pretentious at the same time.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

The idea that "something from nothing is an eternal impossiblity" manages to be both self-contradictory and pretentious at the same time.

So long as you understand the gist..mission accomplished....something from nothing is an impossibility...happy..

 

[LuisDantas]

Your mission was to make me understand that empty wordplay is indeed empty, yet can be yielded proudly by some people nevertheless?

Trust me, I knew that already, and have known that for a long time.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Your mission was to make me understand that empty wordplay is indeed empty, yet can be yielded proudly by some people nevertheless?

Trust me, I knew that already, and have known that for a long time.

So before you run off...do you agree that something from nothing is an impossibility?

 

[LuisDantas]

Think about what you are saying for a moment. I am sure you will at some level realize that you are just toying with words and feeding your pride like a child.

I will however tell you that taking such hollow wordplay seriously, now that is an impossibility.

 

[prometheus11]

Oh yeh....where's your proof then....what caused Time = 0 ? And why was Time = 0 caused?

If these questions are not answered unambiguously, then that's that...you do not know...and if you do not know....but want to proceed and pretend it doesn't matter that something from nothing is an eternal impossibility....then nothing will unfold for you in deeper understanding...

I'm not pretending it doesn't matter.

We simply don't know.

You wanting to know really really bad doesn't change the fact that we don't know.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Think about what you are saying for a moment. I am sure you will at some level realize that you are just toying with words and feeding your pride like a child.

I will however tell you that taking such hollow wordplay seriously, now that is an impossibility.

Not so Luis.....you may feel logic should not hamper your imagined reality..others are deeper....

 

[Ben Dhyan]

I'm not pretending it doesn't matter.

We simply don't know.

You wanting to know really really bad doesn't change the fact that we don't know.

But one doesn't usually believe something unless we know it is true....there is somewhat of a mystery in logic when the mind contemplates the union of non-duality and duality...and non-duality (singularity) is where the duality (objective science) can not enter...we can know this..or at least the mystically inclined can...

 

[ArtieE]

So before you run off...do you agree that something from nothing is an impossibility?

A Mathematical Proof That The Universe Could Have Formed Spontaneously From Nothing
Cosmologists assume that natural quantum fluctuations allowed the Big Bang to happen spontaneously. Now they have a mathematical proof
https://medium.com/the-physics-arxi...aneously-from-nothing-ed7ed0f304a3#.44swh0ap1