Is Heaven even worth it?

[Gjallarhorn]

Heaven has always been explained to me as a place where sin cannot exist. Sin is (as I have been told by many many Christians) part of human nature. In fact it is one of the defining pieces of what Christians call "human nature". When worthy/saved souls enter heaven, something happens to eliminate their sinful nature, thereby altering their human nature.

This all sums up to my question: if you remove a fundamental piece of our inner nature, are you still you? What I mean by that is, people have defined their entire lives by certain things. If sin is a piece of human nature, and that piece is removed, are Christians going to have the same sort of euphoria upon entering Heaven as someone who still knows sin? Would they even care? If lack of sin is all you know and all you can know (after all knowledge of sin is removed, of course), would being in Heaven mean anything at all?

 

[ChristineES]

People ask this question and similar ones and I never answer them because I never have an answer.
I believe that "sin" is another way to say fleshly desires. If we lose our flesh and have only our spirit, then any fleshly desires would be gone too.
Of course, I am not sure about any of this, all this is just speculation on my part.

 

[Skwim]

I think all one does is fly around with a perpetual grin, playing hymns

​

 

[Don Penguinoini]

I thought going to heaven (in the Christian world) was the end of the selection process that is your life.

Surely if God thought you were capable of causing sin, you wouldn't be allowed into Heaven?

Sounds like an amusement park, and if you have to be this tall to get on the rollercoaster.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Yes, none of it really makes sense when you think about it. Of course, this is irrelevant, as it's a comforting idea that appeals to emotion, not a rational concept.

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

I think all one does is fly around with a perpetual grin, playing hymns

Even if you won the weekly harp competition, you wouldn't feel like celebrating, I guess. Without a desire to win, there'd be no joy in winning.

 

[Don Penguinoini]

Heaven is a mental state, hell is a mental state. It's what you make of it. Not clouds and caves.

 

[Gjallarhorn]

Even if you won the weekly harp competition, you wouldn't feel like celebrating, I guess. Without a desire to win, there'd be no joy in winning.

Everyone's a winner! Here's your ribbon you special little one of God!

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Everyone's a winner! Here's your ribbon you special little one of God!

Ah, so it's kind of like kids' sports these days.

 

[ChristineES]

It's kind of hard to explain, as people don't come back from the dead. It is hard to know anything about something unless you have actually experienced it. And I don't think I would want to discuss it with someone who just makes fun of it. I see it more as a state of being than some person floating around with a harp with wings and sitting on a cloud (The latter being rather childish sounding, or like a cartoon).

 

[crocusj]

People ask this question and similar ones and I never answer them because I never have an answer.
I believe that "sin" is another way to say fleshly desires. If we lose our flesh and have only our spirit, then any fleshly desires would be gone too.
Of course, I am not sure about any of this, all this is just speculation on my part.

I don't understand. Are you saying that all "fleshly desires" are wrong? Assuming that "sin" is wrong.

 

[Skwim]

Even if you won the weekly harp competition, you wouldn't feel like celebrating, I guess. Without a desire to win, there'd be no joy in winning.

That's why I'm not in any of the contests.

 

[ChristineES]

I don't understand. Are you saying that all "fleshly desires" are wrong? Assuming that "sin" is wrong.

No. Not all desires are wrong- desires can be good things, too. But there is always the chance any desire can lead to some kind of sin. Like if I eat one piece of apple pie, it may lead to wanting another and another, causing the sin of gluttony. And what I see as being wrong may be all right in someone else's eyes. Not everyone shares my faith, and I don't expect that by any means. Maybe a good saying could be "sin is in the eye of the beholder".

 

[Gjallarhorn]

No. Not all desires are wrong- desires can be good things, too. But there is always the chance any desire can lead to some kind of sin. Like if I eat one piece of apple pie, it may lead to wanting another and another, causing the sin of gluttony. And what I see as being wrong may be all right in someone else's eyes. Not everyone shares my faith, and I don't expect that by any means. Maybe a good saying could be "sin is in the eye of the beholder".

By your definition of sin, heaven is a world without desire. A Heaven without desire would (again) be pretty boring.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

People ask this question and similar ones and I never answer them because I never have an answer.
I believe that "sin" is another way to say fleshly desires. If we lose our flesh and have only our spirit, then any fleshly desires would be gone too.
Of course, I am not sure about any of this, all this is just speculation on my part.

I think this is where we part ways in perspective on what is "fleshly" desires and how it correlates/compares to what is "sinful." We have survival instincts and biological drives. To say, for instance, that the instinct to eat automatically has us picture eating an entire apple pie is presumptuous. How about we eat not just one apple, but 5 from the apple tree? Is that gluttonous?

Or our mating instinct and hormonal fluctuations that drive us to fall in love, pair bond, and get all warm and squishy....there is no need to automatically picture us banging everything that moves. We could just mate many times over with the one we've bonded with on a long term basis.

I think the fear of our desires is what fuels the oft-mentioned slippery slope fallacy. I'm not the only person in the world who has frequently succeeded in eating just a single potato chip from the bag.

 

[Erebus]

No. Not all desires are wrong- desires can be good things, too. But there is always the chance any desire can lead to some kind of sin. Like if I eat one piece of apple pie, it may lead to wanting another and another, causing the sin of gluttony. And what I see as being wrong may be all right in someone else's eyes. Not everyone shares my faith, and I don't expect that by any means. Maybe a good saying could be "sin is in the eye of the beholder".

Out of interest, If heaven involves the shedding of earthly desires, would you consider this a good thing?

For example, would losing certain desires be a loss or a relief in your mind (I can understand the reasoning behind either argument, so I'm not going to make fun of you )

 

[sojourner]

Heaven has always been explained to me as a place where sin cannot exist. Sin is (as I have been told by many many Christians) part of human nature. In fact it is one of the defining pieces of what Christians call "human nature". When worthy/saved souls enter heaven, something happens to eliminate their sinful nature, thereby altering their human nature.

This all sums up to my question: if you remove a fundamental piece of our inner nature, are you still you? What I mean by that is, people have defined their entire lives by certain things. If sin is a piece of human nature, and that piece is removed, are Christians going to have the same sort of euphoria upon entering Heaven as someone who still knows sin? Would they even care? If lack of sin is all you know and all you can know (after all knowledge of sin is removed, of course), would being in Heaven mean anything at all?

Sin is being apart from God. Heaven is unity with God. How can two mutually-exclusive states exist simultaneously? It is human nature to be particular to ourselves. It is also our nature to be one with God. I don't waste much time speculating about the mystery of how all that works out in the end. But I rather suspect it's like true community.

 

[lunamoth]

Heaven has always been explained to me as a place where sin cannot exist. Sin is (as I have been told by many many Christians) part of human nature. In fact it is one of the defining pieces of what Christians call "human nature". When worthy/saved souls enter heaven, something happens to eliminate their sinful nature, thereby altering their human nature.

You've got it backwards. Sin is what separates one from God and neighbor, and the greater the separation, the more one is in hell. When one's desires and actions align with God's and neighbor's, you grow closer to God and neighbor, and achieve heaven. Heaven is a state where one's desires align with God's. Sin is not a healthy part of human nature, but it is all too prevalent in human life.

 

[Gjallarhorn]

Sin is being apart from God. Heaven is unity with God. How can two mutually-exclusive states exist simultaneously? It is human nature to be particular to ourselves. It is also our nature to be one with God. I don't waste much time speculating about the mystery of how all that works out in the end. But I rather suspect it's like true community.

You live your entire life with two natures. No matter which you believe is the true you, in the end you lack a fundamental piece of your existence (as far as you have ever known). Without that sin, you are not who you used to be. Who is to say the side of you that only knows God would notice any difference in Heaven than what it already knows?

 

[Willamena]

You live your entire life with two natures. No matter which you believe is the true you, in the end you lack a fundamental piece of your existence (as far as you have ever known). Without that sin, you are not who you used to be. Who is to say the side of you that only knows God would notice any difference in Heaven than what it already knows?

The resolution lies in recognition that the "divide between," the thought that splits one self into two, is still one self. All is God Self. (i.e. Unity)

There's nothing removed or lost in a return to heaven, because there never was anything but "heaven".