Is Hinduism A Closed Practice?

[Ashoka]

I've heard some people say that Hinduism is closed and only those born into it can practice. What do you think?

 

[Vinayaka]

I've heard some people say that Hinduism is closed and only those born into it can practice. What do you think?

I think this is propaganda from non-Hindus. "If conversion is allowed only one way, then we win." All the people I've ever met, and that's less than ten have been non-Hindu telling me I couldn't be a Hindu. I just shrugged and laughed all the way to the temple. In India, Hindus love it when sincere western devotees show up. You get disproportionate undeserved attention. We're such a break from the tourists or evangelicals. I felt it was unfair when some priest would grab me and give me a shortcut.
Yes, there are few people on-line that have a nationalistic or ethnocentric slant to them, but it's really rare, and usually they get shot down petty fast. The fact is that several million people not born in India are Hindu. We have several on these forums. It also sort of excludes all the Sri Lankans, Balinese, Fijiian, Nepalese, Mauritians, and everywhere else Hindus have settled besides India.

And yes, there are westerners who claim they're Hindu because it's cool, or some other invalid reason, but that's not around much either. Usually those types don't show up at temples.

 

[Vinayaka]

ISKCON expansion in Russia since 2000 (180 centers now) is definitely comparable to ISKCON in America in the 60s and 70s. Hinduism grows via movements like that, and immigration.

Russia | ISKCON Centers

 

[Ashoka]

I think this is propaganda from non-Hindus. "If conversion is allowed only one way, then we win." All the people I've ever met, and that's less than ten have been non-Hindu telling me I couldn't be a Hindu. I just shrugged and laughed all the way to the temple. In India, Hindus love it when sincere western devotees show up. You get disproportionate undeserved attention. We're such a break from the tourists or evangelicals. I felt it was unfair when some priest would grab me and give me a shortcut.
Yes, there are few people on-line that have a nationalistic or ethnocentric slant to them, but it's really rare, and usually they get shot down petty fast. The fact is that several million people not born in India are Hindu. We have several on these forums. It also sort of excludes all the Sri Lankans, Balinese, Fijiian, Nepalese, Mauritians, and everywhere else Hindus have settled besides India.

And yes, there are westerners who claim they're Hindu because it's cool, or some other invalid reason, but that's not around much either. Usually those types don't show up at temples.

Those are my thoughts, too. Usually I am met with nothing but positive thoughts and comments from native born Indian Hindus. I've only ever heard the other rhetoric from white westerners on social media, but I've always been welcomed to temples in my area, and the priests are always happy to have me visit.

I definitely don't want to appropriate another person's culture, but I also feel so called to Hinduism, especially to Shiva. Even when I try to deny it, there is no denying Him. You know?

 

[Vinayaka]

Those are my thoughts, too. Usually I am met with nothing but positive thoughts and comments from native born Indian Hindus. I've only ever heard the other rhetoric from white westerners on social media, but I've always been welcomed to temples in my area, and the priests are always happy to have me visit.

I definitely don't want to appropriate another person's culture, but I also feel so called to Hinduism, especially to Shiva. Even when I try to deny it, there is no denying Him. You know?

I know. I never feel I have a choice. (lol) At certain Hindu temples like in Toronto where there are 25 or so Sri Lankan run smaller temples, you might be seen as 'unusual', (because you are, in that context) but as soon as you go and worship, that stops. I often buy an archana, which also helps. It shows you know something.

On a couple of occasions, a senior monk at Kauai Aadheenam has happened to see us on our first day on a pilgrimage there, where Siva is the main deity, and said, "He's waiting for you, " with a gesture in the direction of the temple. It's so true in many ways. My favorite spot to worship/meditate at the temple here is right behind the moolasthanam, in front of the smaller Siva shrine.

 

[Aupmanyav]

No, Hinduism is not a closed practice - actually it is the most open one, since you have scores of philosophies to choose from. One is not restricted to just one God or one propounder. Ranges from stark polytheism (villages having their own protective God or Goddess) to atheism. It has no prejudice against female or LGBTQ deities. It has no color prejudice. Gods and Goddesses range from the fairest to darkest. Rudra the Indo-Euopean import is ruddy with golden/red (Babhru) flowing hair as he rides his fast chariot, or Krishna who is as dark as a rain-laden cloud (Ghana-Shyam).

 

[mangalavara]

I've heard some people say that Hinduism is closed and only those born into it can practice. What do you think?

Hinduism is not closed, but it is daunting to convert to. In order to convert, you first have to talk to a pandit about your desire to convert. After four or five of these conversations over tea with the pandit in his office, he will give you a book to read over a four week period while he has meetings with eminent priests during those weeks about your desire to convert. Many of these priests live in different countries, so he has to communicate with them on Skype.

After the four weeks have passed, the pandit will sit with you outside his office and he will ask you questions about the book that you finished reading by that time. Then, he will answer any questions you have about the Hindu life and spirituality. Afterward, he will invite you to attend services for 12 months as a kind of "test Hindu." During services, the devotees will scrutinize you and they will also help you with arti and rangoli so that you do them perfectly like someone who was born Hindu.

After the 12 months are completed, you will meet with the pandit in his office over tea and fruit and the two of you will review your overall experience of being a test Hindu. When both of you agree that you are ready to officially become a Hindu, he will give you another book to read during the upcoming week while he types up and mails out letters to the aforementioned priests stating that you ought to be welcomed into the religion.

When the pandit receives all the letters of approval from the priests, he will print out a certificate for you. The certificate will have your name and his name on it, and it will show everybody that you are officially a Hindu. At the next temple service, you will show it to the devotees just before Ganesh Puja. In the middle of the service, a sadhu will clip your toenails and smear sandalwood paste on the bottoms of your feet. The devotees will hug you after Hanuman Chalisa. Congratulations! You are officially a Hindu.

Note: None of the stuff above is true, by the way; I made it all up on the spot. I myself am an American of European descent who adopted Hinduism as his religion and way of life. For me, it was just a matter of recognizing the Vedas as foundational, seeking to follow the tenets of Hinduism, and practicing a Hindu spirituality. So far, no Hindus by birth have rejected me.

 

[JustGeorge]

Those are my thoughts, too. Usually I am met with nothing but positive thoughts and comments from native born Indian Hindus. I've only ever heard the other rhetoric from white westerners on social media, but I've always been welcomed to temples in my area, and the priests are always happy to have me visit.

I definitely don't want to appropriate another person's culture, but I also feel so called to Hinduism, especially to Shiva. Even when I try to deny it, there is no denying Him. You know?

I haven't ever gotten much trouble, either. When we were 'newbies' at the temple, we got a lot of helpful instruction(which we much appreciated). At first it was obvious we had no clue what we were doing, but slowly, we understood what came when. On our first trip, after we hovered in the door, a woman came over to ask if we had been here, and we said no, never. She smiled and said she thought we were converts because of my saree. She then took us around and showed us what to do. During the aarti, one man ran in from the kitchen to push my husband ahead and told him "you can do this, too!"

I know what you mean, about not denying it. I couldn't if I tried. It would seep out of me anyways. How could I deny the Gods that call me? I don't think they would let me... When it came down to it, I had a budding interest in Hinduism, but it is Krishna who grabbed me by the hands and began dancing. I didn't really have any say in the matter.

My dad told me I couldn't be a Hindu. But it was funny... He watched the kids for me for a temple trip once, and said "but you can't be a Hindu! When I think of a Hindu, I think of a vegetarian." I gave him a funny look and said "Dad, I've been a vegetarian for over 20 years. You know this." Then he laughed at himself... he really wasn't against it. (I also had to explain that not all Hindus are vegetarians.)

My doctor told me there is no conversion into Hinduism, that its a way of life. But this wasn't meant to discourage me; quite the opposite. I got a 'prescription' to keep Ekadashi, and we talked religion and spirituality together until the building started shutting the lights off.

Though I think my favorite 'surprise' reaction was from a student towards my husband. While I tend to dress traditionally at the temple, my husband tends to wear his typical 90s skater/punk stuff. No one seems to care. Sometimes we get a group of students in for a tour, and one Holi we had such group. One young man, who also had very long hair like my husband, saw him come in, and watched him for a moment, thinking he was going to join them. But when my husband walked past the group and began worshipping Ganesh, and then Durga, and kept going, his eyes got big and he almost fell over!

 

[ajay0]

The original Vedic religion is accepting of all.

The Arya Samaj based on the Vedas alone, is an active prosleytizing missionary sect of Hinduism.Same goes for Iskcon, Lingayats, Prajapita Brahmakumaris and similar sects.

Even in the past too, Hindu traders disseminated the religion in the rest of south east asia and that is why you can see Hindu temples there.

Later on, Brahminism came in confict with Buddhism due to misunderstanding and philosophical differences, which lead to the unnatural rigidity of Hinduism and obsolete practices like casteism and untouchability .

Casteism itself is a smriti or manmade custom which is different from the Shrutis or Vedic teachings and was supposed to be temporary social structures meant to be changed with time . Manmade customs transplanted the vedic teachings and upon a point of time, people started thinking that caste was a vedic teaching which was incorrect.

Hindu traders were banned from going to other countries through the sea to prevent them from coming in contact with Buddhists.

Such practices atrophied Hindu society as the Hindus lost their former dynamic nature, became stale and withdrawn, instead of attempting to learn from other cultures and nations and improving themselves.

Consequently the Hindus regressed, and became a victim of foreign invasions by armies having superior technologies and tactics even though the Hindus enjoyed numerical superiority.

It was the Hindu renaissance set up by reformatory sects like the Lingayats, Brahmo Samaj, Arya Samaj, Kabir Panthis, S.N.D.P of Sree Narayana guru, Ramakrishna Mission that helped to get rid off obsolete thought processes and practices in Hinduism and bring much needed reforms .

The Hindu renaissance was an essential process that preceded India's independence.

 

[ajay0]

Here I must say that the yama niyamas ( dos and don'ts ) should be observed by all Hindus including converted ones, especially when they are visiting temples.

The temple should not be visited after consuming meat or alcohol or intoxicants or without taking a bath or having had sexual intercourse. One should be free of the vices of lust, anger, greed and others and should not be in an agitated state of mind . All vices tend to agitate the mind and reduce mental equanimity.

If one enters the temple in a state of impurity, it can pollute the sattvic vibes within, and make them rajasic or tamasic. This can produce spiritual demerit instead.

I have seen Hindus themselves barred from temples in India after the priests found them to be under intoxication of alcohol, and hence in a tamasic state.

Hence all Hindus should exercise self-discipline in ensuring sattva within themselves before entering the temple or an ashram or a pilgrimage site.

This could also be a reason why there may be some reluctance in some quarters towards converts as one does not know whether they follow the yama niyamas or not, especially on the day when they are entering the temple.

However regularity in practice and diligent learning and observance of best practices can inspire confidence in the authorities who would be more welcoming.

 

[Martin]

I've heard some people say that Hinduism is closed and only those born into it can practice. What do you think?

I don't get it. Others say you must have a guru to be a Hindu.

 

[ajay0]

Ultimately , authentic Hinduism is about converting a vicious person into a virtuous or ethical person, or an unconscious person into a Self-aware or mindful person.

This can be done without any official or religious conversion. Many non-Hindus have been inspired all over the world by the example and precept of Mahatma Gandhi or Nisargadatta Maharaj to be more nonviolent or conscious.

 

[The Crimson Universe]

Ultimately , authentic Hinduism is about converting a vicious person into a virtuous or ethical person, or an unconscious person into a Self-aware or mindful person.

This can be done without any official or religious conversion. Many non-Hindus have been inspired all over the world by the example and precept of Mahatma Gandhi or Nisargadatta Maharaj to be more nonviolent or conscious.

I do agree (as far as my limited knowledge goes) that hindus don't practice forced conversion. Hindus are mostly peaceful by nature and believe in ahimsa/non-violence. ... I think, it is the only good thing Gandhi probably preached while he was alive.
Like Osho, Gandhi was no saint.
Are you aware of the fact that Gandhi in his 70s (after the death of his wife), he used to sleep with naked girls? Even with his grand neice Manu. He called it an experiment. People in his ashram and even outside the ashram like Vallabh Patel were disgusted with his perversive acts.
Vallabh Patel told Gandhi off to his face that what he was doing was ‘adharma’ (immoral).
Gandhi Used His Position To Sexually Exploit Young Women. The Way WE React To This Matters Even Today | Youth Ki Awaaz

 

[ajay0]

I do agree (as far as my limited knowledge goes) that hindus don't practice forced conversion. Hindus are mostly peaceful by nature and believe in ahimsa/non-violence. ... I think, it is the only good thing Gandhi probably preached while he was alive.
Like Osho, Gandhi was no saint.
Are you aware of the fact that Gandhi in his 70s (after the death of his wife), he used to sleep with naked girls? Even with his grand neice Manu. He called it an experiment. People in his ashram and even outside the ashram like Vallabh Patel were disgusted with his perversive acts.
Vallabh Patel told Gandhi off to his face that what he was doing was ‘adharma’ (immoral).
Gandhi Used His Position To Sexually Exploit Young Women. The Way WE React To This Matters Even Today | Youth Ki Awaaz

It is Gandhi himself who stated to the public that he was sleeping naked with girls, as a test of his celibacy and self-control. And in his own time, he took a lot of flak from his followers and opponents. He never made it a secret and even spoke and wrote about it in his letters and journals.

Celibacy in yogic philosophy is considered to be an iron test of self-control and much prestige is attached to it in India. Even in the martial arts and wrestling, celibacy is considered to impart vigor and strength, physically and mentally.

This could be the reason for Gandhi to perform such activities publicly.

He similarly used to take long fasts, ate very bitter or tasteless food, and remained without sleep for days to develop his self-control. He was attached to this concept very much and used to talk and write about it a lot.

Once during a surgery, he refused to take anaesthesia, and allowed the doctors to perform the surgery on him consciously. Again as a test of his self-discipline and mental strength.

So you need to understand this stance of his before commenting on him.

Most of his opponents use this kind of stuff to criticize him unfairly though none would be able to fulfil to completion, the kind of spartan practices he undertook.

 

[Martin]

People self-identify as all sorts of things. And it's not like there is anyone policing this stuff.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Hinduism is not closed, but it is daunting to convert to. ..

Note: None of the stuff above is true, by the way; I made it all up on the spot. I myself am an American of European descent who adopted Hinduism as his religion and way of life. For me, it was just a matter of recognizing the Vedas as foundational, seeking to follow the tenets of Hinduism, and practicing a Hindu spirituality. So far, no Hindus by birth have rejected me.

That is not necessary, mangalavar. In the forum, you have many people who have adopted Hinduism without the need of any Pandit (priest). My friends Salixincendium and Valjain are Hindus following Advaita philosophy. It is a matter of heart, a matter of understanding. Similarly there are others like Jainarayan, JustGeorge and Ashoka, who worship Hindu Gods and Goddesses (not naming all of them). Who ever accepts and declares that he/she is a Hindu is a Hindu. I believe no further formalities are required. I am totally against any expense for this futile exercise.
Oh!
Well, you let the cat out at the end.
Absolutely funny. Just like Hindu.

I don't get it. Others say you must have a guru to be a Hindu.

Again, something that a person decides after careful checking. There are many fake gurus in India and abroad. I have never felt the need for a guru. The books (Vedas, Shruti, which Aranyakas, Brahmanas, Upanishads; Gita, Srimad Bhagawat purana, etc.) have guided me. As my label says, you need to be your own guru - study (Be your own guru).

Gandhi was no saint.
Are you aware of the fact that Gandhi in his 70s (after the death of his wife), he used to sleep with naked girls? Even with his grand neice Manu. He called it an experiment. People in his ashram and even outside the ashram like Vallabh Patel were disgusted with his perverse act.
Vallabh Patel told Gandhi off to his face that what he was doing was ‘adharma’ (immoral).

I think Gandhi was a saint, but I do not defend his abominable experiment. I do not think any one in India did. That was against 'dharma'. He should have known better. A time comes when testosterone production in the body automatically stops.

 

[ajay0]

I don't get it. Others say you must have a guru to be a Hindu.

A great teacher makes hard things easy.” – Ralph waldo Emerson

Similarly an excellent Guru or enlightened master can help the student grasp the scriptural teachings better, and attain enlightenment faster as well.

It would obviously be much harder for someone without a Guru or teacher. In terms of worse case scenarios, the student can have deluded ideas of the scriptural teachings and preach the same, spreading ignorance and falsehood.

And yes, there are fraudulent people posing as enlightened teachers, and the enlightened master Kabir had advocated critical examination of the teacher to determine whether he is true or false..

Kabir on the need for critical examination to weed out the false and fraudulent...

 

[Martin]

A great teacher makes hard things easy.” – Ralph waldo Emerson

Similarly an excellent Guru or enlightened master can help the student grasp the scriptural teachings better, and attain enlightenment faster as well.

It would obviously be much harder for someone without a Guru or teacher. In terms of worse case scenarios, the student can have deluded ideas of the scriptural teachings and preach the same, spreading ignorance and falsehood.

And yes, there are fraudulent people posing as enlightened teachers, and the enlightened master Kabir had advocated critical examination of the teacher to determine whether he is true or false..

Kabir on the need for critical examination to weed out the false and fraudulent...

It's obviously useful to have wise teachers. I was querying the idea that you must have a guru, like it's a condition of membership or something.

 

[ajay0]

It's obviously useful to have wise teachers. I was querying the idea that you must have a guru, like it's a condition of membership or something.

No , the 'must' implies a condition, and there are no such conditions. Many hindus don't have a guru themselves.The master comes when the student is ready and not prior to that.

However it is auspicious to have a good Guru, and the scriptures themselves have been written by such Gurus.

The external Guru helps the student to access the inner Guru or the Self and this inner Guru is the best.

 

[The Crimson Universe]

It is Gandhi himself who stated to the public that he was sleeping naked with girls, as a test of his celibacy and self-control. And in his own time, he took a lot of flak from his followers and opponents. He never made it a secret and even spoke and wrote about it in his letters and journals.

Celibacy in yogic philosophy is considered to be an iron test of self-control and much prestige is attached to it in India. Even in the martial arts and wrestling, celibacy is considered to impart vigor and strength, physically and mentally.

This could be the reason for Gandhi to perform such activities publicly.

He similarly used to take long fasts, ate very bitter or tasteless food, and remained without sleep for days to develop his self-control. He was attached to this concept very much and used to talk and write about it a lot.

Once during a surgery, he refused to take anaesthesia, and allowed the doctors to perform the surgery on him consciously. Again as a test of his self-discipline and mental strength.

Most of his opponents use this kind of stuff to criticize him unfairly though none would be able to fulfil to completion, the kind of spartan practices he undertook.

No offence but don't you think he went a little too far?

Not taking anaesthetic during surgery, then sleeping with his grand-niece and other girls.
I mean he was trying desperately to prove something to the world, probably his greatness or mental strength. But ultimately he ended up tarnishing his image.
Not only that, he didn't even realize what could be the aftereffects of his actions. A couple of girls whom he slept with, went into some sort of trauma, as they would often weep in isolation.

Saints like Vivekananda and Shankaracharya practiced strict celibacy without the need to test their self control.

In the case of Vivekananda, after his father died, he was very much in grief and so his friends dragged him to brothels to cheer him up. Even though he was drunk, he didn’t let the prostitutes touch him.