Bunyip
pro scapegoat
Homosexuals are attracted to the right group of people - paedophiles are not. How did you imagine otherwise?
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Is Homosexuality a illness? And how to heal?
- Thread starter Servant_of_the_One1
- Start date
raph
Member
Of course homosexuality is not harmful to anyone in society, while pedophiles are harming children in a disgusting way.
But if we speak of curing homosexuality, we talk about people, who don't want to be gay anymore. These people are attracted to the wrong group of people. So for me, a pedophile, who wants to be healed, and a homosexual, who wants to be healed, have both the same problem. Both are attracted to the wrong group of people.
Bunyip
pro scapegoat
No they are attracted to the right people, homosexuals are naturally attracted to members of the same sex. Not wanting to be gay anymore is rather like not wanting to be 47. You are what you are.
raph
Member
Many people would not oppose a medicin, that makes the body younger. Many people would say "I dont want to be 47, I want to be 24 for ever" Many people want to switch their gender, they don't want to be, what they are. And many people don't want to be gay anymore, for various reasons.
chevron1
Active Member
>>Ex Gay therapy being flawed is no proof, that there can't be a better one.
>>Many people want to switch their gender, they don't want to be, what they are. And many people don't want to be gay anymore, for various reasons.
There is a terrible therapy that is given to gays against their will and its important to talk about it, because it is rumored to be religious workers who advocate it and perpetrate forced chemical conversion. It's called trans-gay therapy. A friend told me that the movie "xxx: state of the union" starring vin diesel was a subtle allegory about gay reparative therapy, especially trans-gay therapy.
Below are pictures from the movie. in the top picture, the xxx tattoo on the back of the neck represents what this friend calls "trans-gay" therapy: the center x marks the injection point into the brain stem, the x's on either side represent the contents of the hypodermic - estrogen. In the bottom picture, the star vin diesel wears a motocycle pants with a black panel in the crotch area symbolizing castration due to estrogen exposure. It is called "trans-gay" therapy because it is supposed to transform a gay man into a transgender man by direct injection of trans hormones into the brain to feminize the brain only without affecting the body. this way he becomes and thinks like a woman, but they are hoping it will change his orientation too. they tell me that sometimes a gay will attend a party and then is knocked out with something like GHB and then he is injected and wakes up without knowing what happened.
The form of estrogen was used in the 1940s for chemical castration and is called Diethylstilbestrol or DES. According to the wikipedia, DES was once given to pregnant women and has a history of causing transgenderism in boys. Because Bruce Jenner has been transitioning to a woman, there has been some speculation about changes to his sexual orientation. It seems that over 60% of men who undergo transition by estrogen have some kind of change in their orientation: either they become bisexual or straight. I am afraid they suffer brain damage too (reduced brain volume, psychosis, lethargy) in addition to becoming like women and they never feel true love any more. That makes me think that there might be too much trade-off, because you're never the man you used to be.
Link added: 5/29/15
Bruce Jenner: Sexual Orientation Uncertain After Cross Sex Hormone Therapy
Picture added: 5/29/15
>>Many people want to switch their gender, they don't want to be, what they are. And many people don't want to be gay anymore, for various reasons.
There is a terrible therapy that is given to gays against their will and its important to talk about it, because it is rumored to be religious workers who advocate it and perpetrate forced chemical conversion. It's called trans-gay therapy. A friend told me that the movie "xxx: state of the union" starring vin diesel was a subtle allegory about gay reparative therapy, especially trans-gay therapy.
Below are pictures from the movie. in the top picture, the xxx tattoo on the back of the neck represents what this friend calls "trans-gay" therapy: the center x marks the injection point into the brain stem, the x's on either side represent the contents of the hypodermic - estrogen. In the bottom picture, the star vin diesel wears a motocycle pants with a black panel in the crotch area symbolizing castration due to estrogen exposure. It is called "trans-gay" therapy because it is supposed to transform a gay man into a transgender man by direct injection of trans hormones into the brain to feminize the brain only without affecting the body. this way he becomes and thinks like a woman, but they are hoping it will change his orientation too. they tell me that sometimes a gay will attend a party and then is knocked out with something like GHB and then he is injected and wakes up without knowing what happened.
The form of estrogen was used in the 1940s for chemical castration and is called Diethylstilbestrol or DES. According to the wikipedia, DES was once given to pregnant women and has a history of causing transgenderism in boys. Because Bruce Jenner has been transitioning to a woman, there has been some speculation about changes to his sexual orientation. It seems that over 60% of men who undergo transition by estrogen have some kind of change in their orientation: either they become bisexual or straight. I am afraid they suffer brain damage too (reduced brain volume, psychosis, lethargy) in addition to becoming like women and they never feel true love any more. That makes me think that there might be too much trade-off, because you're never the man you used to be.
Link added: 5/29/15
Bruce Jenner: Sexual Orientation Uncertain After Cross Sex Hormone Therapy
Picture added: 5/29/15
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Okay, let me try to break it down.
So you have sexual behavior and then you have sexual orientation. The two are not necessarily linked. A gay man who has sex with 1000 women is still gay. A straight man who has sex with 1000 men is still straight.
Sexual behavior merely speaks to your sexual practices. A gay man does not need love nor attraction to be able to have sex with a person. This is the same for heterosexual people and bisexuals. They just need sexual stimulation of the genitals and then proceed to have sex. (Sexual stimulation is not the same as legitimately liking it. People who have been raped regardless of age are able to orgasm during forced sex, for example.) People have one night stands all the time gay straight threesomes whatever. There is no love in that, there could potentially be no attraction in that. So why do assume that sex automatically equates to love or attraction? It often doesn't.
Sexual orientation however speaks specifically of what gender a person finds attractive. Let me ask you, can you force yourself to find people of the same gender attractive? Why then ask this of gay people (but reversed obviously)? Can YOU choose who you find attractive? If you answered no, then it's essentially the same for gay people.
Well that's good? I think??? You don't have low self esteem do you? Because if you do I would suggest seeking professional advice.
Well I was speaking generally. As in those guys running and supporting the Ex Gay Movement. I apologize if it came off as talking about you specifically.
Again why? What would be the point? Ex Gay "Therapy" is responsible for crushing the self esteem of gay people, it is responsible for self hatred/loathing. It is responsible for the destruction of marriages (many Ex Gays eventually get fed up of living a lie and divorce their spouse, often leaving young kids caught in a divorce settlement.) The potential detrimental affects Ex Gay Therapy can have on a person outweigh the potential benefits by a considerable margin. Which is why it is objected to by laymen and Scientists alike.
Bunyip
pro scapegoat
Sure, and therapy to eradicate homosexual tendencies has proven to be an abject failure. A catastrophy.
chevron1
Active Member
>>I am not saying that we should forcefully convert homosexuals. But some people want to change, they want kids on their own. For me, it would be a handicap, if I was not able to love a woman and have kids with her. I would appreciate, if there was a cure, that would enable for me to be sexually attracted to women.
This seems to advocate bisexuality as a cure. The philosophy of bisexuality is: if you're not with the one you love, then LEARN to love the one you're with.
1. The problem if one is gay and calls himself bisexual is that bisexuality can distract from the goal of finding a TRULY compatible mate. If a gay man is known to date women, there will be lots of women to date but not so many good men, because you must be dedicated to find them. As gay men get older, the good ones settle down and leave the dating pool. The ones who experiment must work harder to find a suitable male OR must settle with a female who doesn't truly satisfy.
2. This next problem of bisexuality I saw on Jerry Springer today. A person who is TRULY bisexual is either experimenting or is not satisfied with either sex. Either way, they make poor partners, according to the show. The woman who was jilted on Jerry Springer was upset she did not know her partner was bi. She asked before entering the relationship but was lied to. The partner seems to want sex with both men and women and cannot settle down with one person. One day she wants dick, the next day she wants vagina. If you ask her to compromise and give up one, she resents it.
Metaphysical Taoism respects gays as gays, respects them as people of destiny and divine purpose, no need to think of bi if you don't want, to be bi just to be religious. The first link is about sex and the purpose of sex in classical Taoism. The second link is a simple test to see if your partner is a good match.
Bruce Jenner: Sexual Orientation Uncertain After Cross Sex Hormone Therapy
Merging Essences: Sex and Sexuality for Life and Afterlife
Neidan T-Shirt Test For Couples Compatibility
This seems to advocate bisexuality as a cure. The philosophy of bisexuality is: if you're not with the one you love, then LEARN to love the one you're with.
1. The problem if one is gay and calls himself bisexual is that bisexuality can distract from the goal of finding a TRULY compatible mate. If a gay man is known to date women, there will be lots of women to date but not so many good men, because you must be dedicated to find them. As gay men get older, the good ones settle down and leave the dating pool. The ones who experiment must work harder to find a suitable male OR must settle with a female who doesn't truly satisfy.
2. This next problem of bisexuality I saw on Jerry Springer today. A person who is TRULY bisexual is either experimenting or is not satisfied with either sex. Either way, they make poor partners, according to the show. The woman who was jilted on Jerry Springer was upset she did not know her partner was bi. She asked before entering the relationship but was lied to. The partner seems to want sex with both men and women and cannot settle down with one person. One day she wants dick, the next day she wants vagina. If you ask her to compromise and give up one, she resents it.
Metaphysical Taoism respects gays as gays, respects them as people of destiny and divine purpose, no need to think of bi if you don't want, to be bi just to be religious. The first link is about sex and the purpose of sex in classical Taoism. The second link is a simple test to see if your partner is a good match.
Bruce Jenner: Sexual Orientation Uncertain After Cross Sex Hormone Therapy
Merging Essences: Sex and Sexuality for Life and Afterlife
Neidan T-Shirt Test For Couples Compatibility
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raph
Member
Because it does for me and sometimes I forget that people are different. Saying "it doesnt" is also not true, because it does for me.
I am not doubting, that I could find attractive whatever I want, through intense mind training and branwashing, or other stuff that will be developed in the future. But in my current state, I could not possibly get a boner with a man. That's why I thought, that most gays can't get a boner with a woman.
Curing asexuality is a huge thing, since these people are deprived of one of the greatest pleasures in this earthly life. I would give my life for any cause, such noble as that. I don't know what self esteem is. And I don't know, how I know, that I have high or low self esteem. Helping a group of people, is worth more than my earthly life for me.
I am in no way supporting the current standards of ex gay therapy. How ever, I am supporting scientific research, that could find a way, to change homosexuals into heteros, as long as some people don't want to be gay.
There's no philosophy of bisexuality. It's literally just attraction to both binary genders. That's it. And your philosophy comes from a 70s song, just FYI.
Crosby Stills Nash - Love The One You're With Lyrics | MetroLyrics
There is a difference between actual gay men and actual bisexual men, you do know this, right?
I mean there's a scale for measuring it and everything.
Yes a show dedicated to finding the most far fetched, extreme scenarios of EVERYTHING is a clear indication of reality.
Seriously Jerry Springer? You might as well say "wow I saw Superman fly so I must be able to fly." Like seriously man? People find JS so ridiculous most people tend to be convinced it's entirely scripted if not at least ad libbed by actors.
Sultan Of Swing
Well-Known Member
Whether something is an illness or a disorder is surely just subjective, no?
To have a 'disorder', one must first have an impression of what 'order' is.
Fifty years ago, when it was classified as a disorder, the natural order was seen as a relationship which would be able to procreate and continue transferring genes. From a purely biological perspective, that's not an entirely unreasonable position to take, is it?
As such, if the natural order included a relationship which could procreate, a sexual orientation which preferred a relationship that could not actually pass on genes and fulfil one of the fundamental driving forces of life, that is, survival and the preservation of one's bloodline, would be classed as a disorder.
Before people pounce on meh, just hope you'd think about it purely from a biological perspective, in terms of what the purpose of sex is and how carrying on our genes is one of the fundamental functions of a species. Thus a sexual orientation which renounced that fundamental function could be classed as a disorder.
As I said, it's all subjective, just sayin' the health professionals and scientists who classified it as a disorder 50 years ago were not bigoted imbeciles.
To have a 'disorder', one must first have an impression of what 'order' is.
Fifty years ago, when it was classified as a disorder, the natural order was seen as a relationship which would be able to procreate and continue transferring genes. From a purely biological perspective, that's not an entirely unreasonable position to take, is it?
As such, if the natural order included a relationship which could procreate, a sexual orientation which preferred a relationship that could not actually pass on genes and fulfil one of the fundamental driving forces of life, that is, survival and the preservation of one's bloodline, would be classed as a disorder.
Before people pounce on meh, just hope you'd think about it purely from a biological perspective, in terms of what the purpose of sex is and how carrying on our genes is one of the fundamental functions of a species. Thus a sexual orientation which renounced that fundamental function could be classed as a disorder.
As I said, it's all subjective, just sayin' the health professionals and scientists who classified it as a disorder 50 years ago were not bigoted imbeciles.
So are you are essentially saying you reject the Academic Definition of sexual orientation as defined by multiple Intellectual Disciplines? If that's the case, don't try to call Ex Gay scientific, as by it's and your definition it literally rejects science.
You'd be surprised, actually. Many people say that, when they actually can. Because sexual stimulation works by physical stimulation essentially. I mean the attraction side is very much involuntary and without physical stimulation. But if a man jacked you off, he can give you a boner. (Unless you are unable to get a boner regardless. Or asexual. I'm not entirely well versed on that particular phenomenon.)
Well not really. They can still find companionship, they're essentially just not interested in sex. They'd make good priests, come to think of it.
(Also greatest pleasure on this earthly life? Are you a Tantric, because I know many people can have amazing earth shattering sex. But I feel like only Tantrics can truly speak of sex in such a light. I mean not saying you're not good in the sack. But the Tantrics man. They essentially make it an Olympic sport and actually much of the amazing stimulation comes from things outside of penetrative sex .)
Self esteem relates to how you feel about yourself. If you have low self esteem you see yourself as very negative. High self esteem is when you see yourself as very positive (though can lead to arrogance.)
Why what would be the point? Homosexuality is not inherently detrimental. It is not worth bothering to "fix" even if they found a way. Not everyone has to be the same, that's boring. Diversity is the spice of life, after all. A better measure would be to help gay people accept themselves and be happy with who they are. It's much more positive and doesn't lead to gay people hating themselves and living a lie to appease society's expectations of them.
If that were the case we wouldn't see sexual selective pressures in the wild. We try to pass on the beneficial genes through survival. But just expecting everyone to have babies doesn't do that necessarily. In fact it is hypothesized that having a portion of the population not procreate at all is/was beneficial to the overall survival to the population (thereby ensuring their ability to pass on genes.) Having sex and "continuing the line" is not the be all and end all of survivability or Biology.
chevron1
Active Member
There is a philosophy and that philosophy is the basis of modern gay conversion. You're more versatile if you're bi.
How do you convert a gay to bisex: you turn him transgender by giving him hormones. See my post above here: Trans Gay Therapy
Ahh, wait what? Are you talking about gay people turning other people gay? Or the other way around?
Also transgenderism is NOT BISEXUALITY.
raph
Member
I reject academic definitions, that talk about my sex life. If science tells me, that I can have sex without love, it is false. I should know.
If I don't love that person, I can't. (I didn't try it with guys, but I think, that I couldn't become hard) Again, science is wrong. Note, that my penis works perfectly fine with my wife, and other girls in the past, I had a crush on. The Holy Spirit is protecting me from adultery, thanks God.
.
chevron1
Active Member
See the article about Bruce Jenner's transitioning in my post about trans-gay therapy above. In trans conversion, according to psych. doctors, there is a better than 60% chance of sex orientation change. The tradeoff is brain damage.
It's religious people who set up gays for trans gay therapy. It's nothing more than injecting DES estrogen directly into the brain. Again the tradeoff is brain damage.
The idea the any form of mental disorder is an illness is actually a highly subjective and culturally defined statement. definitions of what constitutes a 'healthy' mental state vary considerably. But if we look at what makes people happy then trying to cure homosexuality doesn't work. The problem for religious people, particuarly conservatives, is that this challanges the understanding that sex/lust is temptation and a sin. It is therefore very threatening to people because once you learn to accept sexuality as a healty instinct, it has deeply revolutionary implications regarding how we view emotions as normal expressions of human behaviour and not irrational or immoral deviancy requiring social sanction or divine judgement.
Speaking as someone who is bisexual, I do not consider homosexuality or bisexuality an ilness but the number of psychological conflicts which trying to come to terms with being homosexual/bisexual means mental illness such as depression, anxiety etc (and sucicide) is extremely common amongst LGBT minorities. The nature of these questions strikes at the very heart of how we define what it means to be human because it involves questions- not simply of sex- but of the nature of love. imagine if hetrosexual love was turned into a crime and you can begin to grasp why it is so hard for LGBT to 'come out' and why it remains such a big deal even in these comparatively more liberal times. it may no longer be illegal in alot of countries, but the stigma, the fear and the inhibition remains.
Speaking as someone who is bisexual, I do not consider homosexuality or bisexuality an ilness but the number of psychological conflicts which trying to come to terms with being homosexual/bisexual means mental illness such as depression, anxiety etc (and sucicide) is extremely common amongst LGBT minorities. The nature of these questions strikes at the very heart of how we define what it means to be human because it involves questions- not simply of sex- but of the nature of love. imagine if hetrosexual love was turned into a crime and you can begin to grasp why it is so hard for LGBT to 'come out' and why it remains such a big deal even in these comparatively more liberal times. it may no longer be illegal in alot of countries, but the stigma, the fear and the inhibition remains.
Sultan Of Swing
Well-Known Member
Do animals exhibiting homosexual behaviour just refuse to procreate at all? It just won't happen?
Also, could you explain how exactly having a portion not procreating would help overall survival?
If homosexuality crept in as a mutation or some genetic adaptation, surely it would be removed immediately... seeing as the gene simply couldn't be passed on with no sex. How do you think it appeared, and how does it occur today?
illykitty
RF's pet cat
No one mentioned this so I'll point it out. Some gays who want to be cured do so because their religions consider it an abomination and sinful and/or their culture shuns it.
Who wouldn't be desperate and depressed living under such circumstances? It's not the fault of the person, but rather it's the fault of outdated views. It's really sad.
And you're suggesting comparing something unharmful (two consenting adults enjoying sex with each other) to something harmful. Gee, I wonder which is healthy behaviour and which isn't? (Sarcasm, in case you can't tell.)