The evidence can't very well be ignored.
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Is Intellectual Honesty a Religious Virtue?
- Thread starter Sunstone
- Start date
The evidence can't very well be ignored.
McBell
Unbound
Is it not possible to believe and or have faith and understand that your belief and or faith is not the most sound reasoning?
And in doing so, would you still not be being intellectually honest?
Certainly. There is no dishonesty in aiming for a dream and admitting as much.
By my estimation, sure.
All the same, intellectual dishonesty is a very serious problem in many religions. They go way outside those parameters you propose.
Thana
Lady
What evidence?
McBell
Unbound
I agree.
I am merely pointing out that not all people with beliefs and or faith are intellectually dishonest.
Take a look at the Evolutionism vs Creationism area for a sizeable sample.
Oh, definitely.
Thana
Lady
arthra
Baha'i
Sunstone wrote above:
Do any of the world's religions explicitly uphold intellectual honesty as a virtue? If so, please quote where they do that, or explain how and in what manner they do that. Also, why they do that? That is, what value or values do they see in intellectual honesty.
In the Baha'i Writings it's called independent investigation of reality or truth...
."Furthermore, know ye that God has created in man the power of reason, whereby man is enabled to investigate reality. God has not intended man to imitate blindly his fathers and ancestors. He has endowed him with mind, or the faculty of reasoning, by the exercise of which he is to investigate and discover the truth, and that which he finds real and true he must accept."
`Abdu'l-Baha, The Promulgation of Universal Peace, p. 291
"The first teaching of Bahá'u'lláh is the duty incumbent upon all to investigate reality. What does it mean to investigate reality? It means that man must forget all hearsay and examine truth himself, for he does not know whether statements he hears are in accordance with reality or not. Wherever he finds truth or reality, he must hold to it, forsaking, discarding all else; for outside of reality there is naught but superstition and imagination.
Abdu'l-Baha, The Promulgation of Universal Peace, p. 62
"Among these teachings was the independent investigation of reality so that the world of humanity may be saved from the darkness of imitation and attain to the truth; may tear off and cast away this ragged and outgrown garment of a thousand years ago and may put on the robe woven in the utmost purity and holiness in the loom of reality. As reality is one and cannot admit of multiplicity, therefore different opinions must ultimately become fused into one."
Abdu'l-Baha, Selections from the Writings of Abdu'l-Baha, p. 298
There's a compilation on the subject at
Baha'i Principle - Independent Investigation of Truth
Do any of the world's religions explicitly uphold intellectual honesty as a virtue? If so, please quote where they do that, or explain how and in what manner they do that. Also, why they do that? That is, what value or values do they see in intellectual honesty.
In the Baha'i Writings it's called independent investigation of reality or truth...
."Furthermore, know ye that God has created in man the power of reason, whereby man is enabled to investigate reality. God has not intended man to imitate blindly his fathers and ancestors. He has endowed him with mind, or the faculty of reasoning, by the exercise of which he is to investigate and discover the truth, and that which he finds real and true he must accept."
`Abdu'l-Baha, The Promulgation of Universal Peace, p. 291
"The first teaching of Bahá'u'lláh is the duty incumbent upon all to investigate reality. What does it mean to investigate reality? It means that man must forget all hearsay and examine truth himself, for he does not know whether statements he hears are in accordance with reality or not. Wherever he finds truth or reality, he must hold to it, forsaking, discarding all else; for outside of reality there is naught but superstition and imagination.
Abdu'l-Baha, The Promulgation of Universal Peace, p. 62
"Among these teachings was the independent investigation of reality so that the world of humanity may be saved from the darkness of imitation and attain to the truth; may tear off and cast away this ragged and outgrown garment of a thousand years ago and may put on the robe woven in the utmost purity and holiness in the loom of reality. As reality is one and cannot admit of multiplicity, therefore different opinions must ultimately become fused into one."
Abdu'l-Baha, Selections from the Writings of Abdu'l-Baha, p. 298
There's a compilation on the subject at
Baha'i Principle - Independent Investigation of Truth
McBell
Unbound
Is your ignorance willful or honest?
Thana
Lady
Sure, sure. We can go with that. Let's just call me ignorant and pretend he didn't just generalize the crap out of a complex issue and then provided it as evidence of Theists being intellectually dishonest.
McBell
Unbound
You did not answer the question.
Which would hint towards willful.
Though it is possible that you are merely responding with an emotional rant because you dislike the word ignorant.
Care to answer the question or are you content with everyone making their own assumptions?
Thana
Lady
On the contrary, I think the word ignorant is a good word that people shouldn't get so easily offended by. Ignorance is a part of life.
Your question was am I wilfully ignorant or just simply ignorant.
I don't know why you think this is appropriate to ask someone, Kind of like asking someone if they're asleep. They can't answer yes.
If I'm willfully ignorant why would I admit it and if I am simply ignorant how would I know it?
McBell
Unbound
I flat out ask because I am curious if you are honestly ignorant of the rampant intellectual dishonesty that goes on in the Evolutionism vs Creationism area or if you are merely feigning ignorance of the intellectual dishonesty that goes on in the Evolutionism vs Creationism area.
now you have been flat out asked a direct question.
If you do not understand the question, you should ask for clarification.
If the answer is "I don't know" then you should answer "I don't know".
If you do not know how to answer, then you should simply say so.
I find nothing inappropriate about asking if your ignorance is willful or honest.
Especially in this particular thread.
Do you have an examples of a tradition explicitly making intellectual honesty a virtue?
Thana
Lady
Well you clearly just ignored everything in my previous post, Since the point of it was to point out the ridiculousness of your question.
But I'll answer you, I understand that there are people who are intellectually dishonest about Evolution/Creationism. But it's not rampant as you've said, In fact I've only seen it a few times. What is rampant in the Evolution vs Creationism area is ignorance, simple ignorance not willful or otherwise. People are genuine in their ignorance, And only a very few are genuine in their dishonesty.
And that sure as hell ain't evidence that there is a link between Theism and intellectual dishonesty. That's pure nonsense at best.
Do you have any evidence to support your opinions? Or are you offering them as mere opinions, and not as fact claims?
Thana
Lady
I have as much evidence for my claims as all of you do.
Which is none, by the way. That was kind of my initial point.