Is Islam nothing but an international religious mafia?

[Spirit of Light]

Are they meccan verses?Most verses in the Initial non-political stage of Islam is peaceful.

Look at it this way,when Meccan Pagans were in majority in Arabia, Jews, Christians, and Muslims(though persecuted as per their claim) were allowed to stay in Arabia but as soon as Muslims came to power with the majority all these religions were converted or killed. Let’s not forget it was Muslims who claimed all the pagans were wrong and need to be converted which led to their persecution. Now, Here is a religion that claims itself to be persecuted while banning all other religions. We need to understand what counts as persecution of Muslims - traditionally, a simple cartoon or a critical poem can be an act of blasphemy and be worthy to be killed. And once a region becomes 100% Muslim, apostasy is criminalized with death, and blasphemy is also severely punished -lest these older religions come back. This is the reason why when this religion from Saudi Arabia goes to Thailand and Kashmir it claims persecuted while at the same time cleansing the region of other native religions.

Seen from a sufi P.O.V islam does not want to kill anyone except if they are attacked first, then according to islam one can defend oneself. If you want answer from sunni or shia Muslims you have to ask them.
Personally I am a pacifist and would not harm anyone, and dont deny people their right to believe what they want to believe.
I even oppose many of if not all extreme forms of islam.
But unfortunately many people has been killed in the name of islam or by extremists

 

[Metempsychosis]

And Christianity. And most pre-Christian religions.

Even many ostensibly secular European countries still have blasphemy laws on the books, or at the very least used to have them until the tail end of the 20th century.

Really where in Christian scripture is this said. I am-noob wrt Christianity. This that a part of the Old Testament.I don't find modern jews or Christians following them at all.

 

[firedragon]

Hindu Nationalism is a reactionary political movement because there is no rule of law in India - it is just a chaotic society. Hindu nationalists in India and Buddhist nationalist in Myanmar is basically using tactics that Islam has done ever since it came to South Asia ..because Muslims in India deliberately break local laws of the infidel( as long as they follow Sharia-their coreligionists don't seem to care). Cow killing and beef consumption are illegal in several parts of India-but Muslims who live by their own civil sharia code don't seem to care and neither does the law enforcement(they can't book the entire society) - so Hindu nationalists in their own idiotic way are taking revenge on law-breaking Muslims. Again, there are many law-abiding Muslims as well who can be affected during riots or clashes.

Thats a great rhetorical justification of murder and a small tu quoque with a "blame it on the Muslim". Nice.

 

[firedragon]

Yes I do know what you are saying. Also, the Meccan section is when the early Muslims were in a powerless position and in minority. Medinan part is when he was a political successful ruler.

Ah. SO you are a hadith believer. Tell me. DO you believe all the ahadith, or do you cherry pick what you want to with no methodology, or do you have a good methodology to pick what you want?

 

[stevecanuck]

It doesn't, I spoke from my personal understanding of sufism as a sufi my self.

Correct, it doesn't. Sufism never existed when the Qur'an was being made up by Mohamed as he went along, and was never intended to be an option. Nothing was meant to be an option. There was only Islam. Period.

 

[stevecanuck]

And if your Lord had willed, He could have made [all] mankind one community; but they will not cease to differ. (Q.11:118)

And had your God willed, those on earth would have believed all of them entirely. Then, [O Muhammad], would you compel the people in order that they become believers? (Q. 10:99).

O mankind, indeed We have created you from male and female and made you into diverse nations and tribes so that you may know one another. Indeed, the most noble of you in the sight of God is the most righteous of you (Q. 49:13).

Looking at these verses one can see that God in fact wills mankind to be diverse including differences in beliefs.

But for you guys who look for contradiction to these verses in the Quran, yes you can find them too.

No, God doesn't will it, He recognizes it. Big difference.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Correct, it doesn't. Sufism never existed when the Qur'an was being made up by Mohamed as he went along, and was never intended to be an option. Nothing was meant to be an option. There was only Islam. Period.

If you want to believe so, go ahead esoteric path has been there as long religion has existed the original word for sufism was and still is tasawwuf ( meaning dressed in wool, or just wool)

If you want to disagree thats ok

 

[Spirit of Light]

No, God doesn't will it, He recognizes it. Big difference.

Again in your understanding

 

[Metempsychosis]

Correct, it doesn't. Sufism never existed when the Qur'an was being made up by Mohamed as he went along, and was never intended to be an option. Nothing was meant to be an option. There was only Islam. Period.

I think Sufism is Platonism and Eastern spirituality packaged into Islam. At best Sufism would be a later addition to Islam.

 

[Spirit of Light]

I think Sufism is Platonism and Eastern spirituality packaged into Islam. At best Sufism would be a later addition to Islam.

Sufism, mystical Islamic belief and practice in which Muslims seek to find the truth of divine love and knowledge through direct personal experience of God. It consists of a variety of mystical paths that are designed to ascertain the nature of humanity and of God and to facilitate the experience of the presence of divine love and wisdom in the world.

Sufism seek to realize God from within, not as a man in the sky

 

[Metempsychosis]

Ah. SO you are a hadith believer. Tell me. DO you believe all the ahadith, or do you cherry pick what you want to with no methodology, or do you have a good methodology to pick what you want?

Just the usual Sahih ones. This is amateur understanding wrt mecca and medina part. Dude, you don't have to convince non-muslims, if Muslims stop all this jihad violence wherever they go and enforce Secular law as in the Christian world -there would be no discussion about the position of non-muslim in the Islamic world.

 

[stevecanuck]

... there is nothing intrinsic to Islam that makes it unsuited [to secular society].

And there is where you're 100% wrong. Islam is not simply just another religion that can exist within another system of laws. It was meant to BE the society. There are people we call terrorists who are devoting their lives to try to fulfil that destiny.

 

[Kooky]

And there is where you're 100% wrong.

Nope.

 

[stevecanuck]

I think Sufism is Platonism and Eastern spirituality packaged into Islam. At best Sufism would be a later addition to Islam.

Yes, that's my point. And to add anything to Islam is a form of apostasy. When 'God' said, "And this day have I perfected for you your religion (5:3), he meant it. Done and dusted with no add-ons allowed.

 

[Kooky]

Really where in Christian scripture is this said.

Christianity is one of those religions where you can justify literally anything with some passage of the Bible or another, so I don't see why it is particularly important to draw out one passage that you can then quibble about.

I am talking about Christianity as it has been applied throughout the last 2000 years of history.

 

[Kooky]

Yes, that's my point. And to add anything to Islam is a form of apostasy. When 'God' said, "And this day have I perfected for you your religion (5:3), he meant it. Done and dusted with no add-ons allowed.

Just like Christianity, whose holy scripture hasn't been added to in the last 1700 years.

 

[Metempsychosis]

And there is where you're 100% wrong. Islam is not simply just another religion that can exist within another system of laws. It was meant to BE the society. There are people we call terrorists who are devoting their lives to try to fulfil that destiny.

infidels in India just cannot understand this. Every time the Islamic population becomes the majority in a part of the Indian subcontinent, the native religions are consistently hounded out and slowly cease to be a part of India.

I guess that's how the native religions of Persia, Central Asia, and the Levant died out.

 

[Kooky]

infidels in India just cannot understand this. Every time the Islamic population becomes the majority in a part of the Indian subcontinent, the native religions are consistently out and solely cease to be a part of India.

Given that most of India has been ruled by Muslim dynasties for a good 500 years, yet has remained over 80% Hindu, the historical evidence does not bear this out at all.

Mughal Empire - Wikipedia
Delhi Sultanate - Wikipedia
Bahmani Sultanate - Wikipedia
Deccan sultanates - Wikipedia

 

[Metempsychosis]

Given that most of India has been ruled by Muslim dynasties for a good 500 years, yet has remained over 80% Hindu, the historical evidence does not bear this out at all.

Mughal Empire - Wikipedia
Delhi Sultanate - Wikipedia
Bahmani Sultanate - Wikipedia
Deccan sultanates - Wikipedia

Maybe you should read the history of India again- whenever the population of Indian state became > 50% Islam, it has asked for Independence.80% Hindu what r u talking about- the Hindu population in the Indian subcontinent has been reduced to around 60% now. The territory of India is shrinking.No hindus/buddhists in afghanistan(previously a Buddhist/Zoroastian country),Pakistan hindu population has been wiped out,Bangladesh Hindu population down from 30% to 10%. Kashmiri Hindus have cut been cut alive and mosques started blaring to leave all hindu men to leave their women for muslim men to enjoy.

This is nothing new in Islam-men can have unlimited infidel sex slaves and 4 Muslim women wives. So, Pakistan men had Hindu marriage illegal till 2017 and even now Muslim madrassas routinely kidnap Hindu women, rape, and convert them.

 

[firedragon]

Just the usual Sahih ones.

So you believe in all the so called "Sahih ones"? Or do you pick and choose within them as well?

What is your methodology?