Is Islamophobia bigotry?

[Notanumber]

This sh*t is laughable I'll respond in the morning pst

I have never considered Islam and what it does as laughable but it should be laughed at. If it is as strong as its supporters think it is it should be capable of withstanding ridicule without resorting to violence as a defence.

 

[England my lionheart]

This sh*t is laughable I'll respond in the morning pst

This is the official website of the muslim brotherhood https://www.ikhwanweb.com/,this is political islam,they've been around since the 30s and are present in many countries,they originated in Egypt and their leader was hasan al banna and sayyid qutb arguably the father of fundamental Islam and physical jihad.

It was the MB who started the conflict in Palestine and stoked the hatred of Jewish people of Israel.

 

[Notanumber]

I have never considered Islam and what it does as laughable but it should be laughed at. If it is as strong as its supporters think it is it should be capable of withstanding ridicule without resorting to violence as a defence.

https://clarionproject.org/dead-charlie-hebdo-cartoonists-win-islamophobe-award/

 

[Notanumber]

This sh*t is laughable I'll respond in the morning pst

Some more reading for you here - "35. Material still being promoted by UKIM as of July 2014 continued to explicitly claim that it is not possible for an observant Muslim to live under a non-Islamic system of government (and anticipated the forthcoming ‘victory’ of Islam over communism, capitalist democracy and secular materialism). In 2010 a television documentary showed members of the Islamic Forum for Europe privately advocating sharia law in Tower Hamlets and actively seeking influence in the Council. In November 2009 the IFE led a petition seeking a directly elected mayor in Tower Hamlets and the IFE supported Lufter Rahman while he was Mayor."

Muslim Brotherhood review: main findings - GOV.UK

 

[Notanumber]

Is this islamophobia or bigotry?

Quran - The hate filled holy book ~ The Skeptic Mind

 

[Twilight Hue]

It is common for Muslim sympathizers to claim that almost no Muslim is a terrorist. However, public opinion polls in arab nations or among arabic popluations show large support for terrorism.

Muslim Opinion Polls

NOP Research: 1 in 4 British Muslims say 7/7 bombings were justified

People-Press: 31% of Turks support suicide attacks against Westerners in Iraq.

YNet: One third of Palestinians (32%) supported the slaughter of a Jewish family, including the children:

World Public Opinion: 83% of Egyptians approve of attacks on American troops.
68% of Moroccans approve of attacks on American troops.
90% of Palestinians approve of attacks on American troops.
72% of Jordanians approve of attacks on American troops.

World Public Opinion (2009): 30% of Palestinians support attacks on American civilians working in Muslim countries.

Pew Research (2010): 15% of Indonesians believe suicide bombings are often or sometimes justified.
34% of Nigerian Muslims believe suicide bombings are often or sometimes justified.

16% of young Muslims in Belgium state terrorism is "acceptable".

Pew Research (2007): 26% of younger Muslims in America believe suicide bombings are justified.
35% of young Muslims in Britain believe suicide bombings are justified (24% overall).
42% of young Muslims in France believe suicide bombings are justified (35% overall).
22% of young Muslims in Germany believe suicide bombings are justified.(13% overall).
29% of young Muslims in Spain believe suicide bombings are justified.(25% overall).

Yea. When people say it's a small minority, I find that its really hard to side with that.

Minorities dont usually take over entire regions, or require large military forces to deal with the problems that fanatical islam brings about.

There's some hard science out there saying clearly that it's not a small minority causing worldwide chaos.

I do feel for Muslims that just want to be left in peace, and remain peaceful towards others. Their lives are not easy because of this.

 

[Notanumber]

I feel for Muslims that just want to be left in peace and remain peaceful towards others. The trouble is that when they find that they cannot achieve this because of Islamic doctrine they are trapped.


WebCite query result

Qur'an, Hadith and Scholars:Apostasy - WikiIslam

 

[Akivah]

Sure, skewed research and poll data really reflect a realistic view of over a billion people. How about this let me poll people who have delt with institutionalized racism and how they feel about non-people of color, I'm sure I'll get similar data.

Prove that all those polls are skewed. Post a dozen polls taken by Muslims, that you believe aren't skewed.

 

[Notanumber]

Even the PC BBC cannot resist poking a bit of fun at Islam - 'Real Housewives of Isis' screens on BBC2 – and it's upset a lot of people | Metro News

It is educational as well as being funny.

If those girls and young women had watched this before going to be ISIS Jihadi Brides, they would not be so desperate to get back to the UK.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

1.5 billion people and 000000.1% of them are extreme

That's not the whole picture. Just because 000000.1% of 1.5 billion people are willing to kill for the sake of their beliefs does not mean they are the only ones who hold those beliefs. Others do but aren't willing to take the extra step to attack others or end someone's life in order to protect those beliefs. Remember when Charlie Hebdo published those cartoons of Muhammad and its staff members were subsequently murdered in retaliation? Muslims around the world were protesting against the cartoons, not about the fact people had just dragged their prophet's name through blood yet again. That gives you a rough idea of their priorities.

Also, see Akivah's post above describing attitudes towards certain issues amongst Muslims living in Western countries. Those are awfully high percentages of people supporting Islamically justified violence for such a tiny minority.

but what about the rest who actually follow the tenants of Islam?

Jihadist groups aren't pulling verses out their collective asses - they're basing their ideologies and subsequently informed actions on orthodoxic interpretations of Islamic scripture. Muhammad was a warlord who conquered Arabia in order to force his beliefs on others. If he, a moral exemplar among humans, did it then it must be okay for Muslims to do it. Unless of course those sahih (i.e. most trustworthy) ahadith are conveniently no longer trustworthy.

That aside, this is the tendency among Muslims and Islamic apologists (not saying that you're one as I've not seen you post often enough to give an informed view on whether you do this or not) to disown the problem so that they don't have to actually do anything about it. That way they can blame the West like they always do.

Your fear or wariness is irrational and misplaced.

Islamic scripture specifically calls those who disbelieve in Allah the lowest of creatures:

Surah 98:6-7: 'Indeed, they who disbelieved among the People of the Scripture and the polytheists will be in the fire of Hell, abiding eternally therein. Those are the worst of creatures.
Indeed, they who have believed and done righteous deeds - those are the best of creatures.'

So how exactly is wariness of Islam on the part of non-Muslims like myself or @Notanumber "irrational and misplaced"? Why exactly shouldn't we be wary of a belief system that 'others' us so absolutely and so vindictively? Seriously, it calls us "the worst of creatures". What part of such dehumanising language shouldn't we concerned about?

The worst part about all this is whenever we bring things like this up our concerns are met with accusations of 'bigotry' and 'Islamophobia'; as if our concerns have no merit whatsoever.

 

[LuisDantas]

This sh*t is laughable I'll respond in the morning pst

The joke, unfortunately, is that while it sounds exagerated it has so far been proven accurate.

 

[Akivah]

That aside, this is the tendency among Muslims and Islamic apologists (not saying that you're one as I've not seen you post often enough to give an informed view on whether you do this or not) to disown the problem so that they don't have to actually do anything about it. That way they can blame the West like they always do.

If it's not abundantly clear Epic Beard Man is an Islamic apologist. He dismisses all concerns about the behavior of Muslims, dismisses all evidence about it, and makes spurious claims while providing no evidence proving his statements.

The worst part about all this is whenever we bring things like this up our concerns are met with accusations of 'bigotry' and 'Islamophobia'; as if our concerns have no merit whatsoever.

Yup, that's him.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

That's not the whole picture. Just because 000000.1% of 1.5 billion people are willing to kill for the sake of their beliefs does not mean they are the only ones who hold those beliefs. Others do but aren't willing to take the extra step to attack others or end someone's life in order to protect those beliefs. Remember when Charlie Hebdo published those cartoons of Muhammad and its staff members were subsequently murdered in retaliation? Muslims around the world were protesting against the cartoons, not about the fact people had just dragged their prophet's name through blood yet again. That gives you a rough idea of their priorities.

Also, see Akivah's post above describing attitudes towards certain issues amongst Muslims living in Western countries. Those are awfully high percentages of people supporting Islamically justified violence for such a tiny minority.




Jihadist groups aren't pulling verses out their collective asses - they're basing their ideologies and subsequently informed actions on orthodoxic interpretations of Islamic scripture. Muhammad was a warlord who conquered Arabia in order to force his beliefs on others. If he, a moral exemplar among humans, did it then it must be okay for Muslims to do it. Unless of course those sahih (i.e. most trustworthy) ahadith are conveniently no longer trustworthy.

That aside, this is the tendency among Muslims and Islamic apologists (not saying that you're one as I've not seen you post often enough to give an informed view on whether you do this or not) to disown the problem so that they don't have to actually do anything about it. That way they can blame the West like they always do.




Islamic scripture specifically calls those who disbelieve in Allah the lowest of creatures:

Surah 98:6-7: 'Indeed, they who disbelieved among the People of the Scripture and the polytheists will be in the fire of Hell, abiding eternally therein. Those are the worst of creatures.
Indeed, they who have believed and done righteous deeds - those are the best of creatures.'

So how exactly is wariness of Islam on the part of non-Muslims like myself or @Notanumber "irrational and misplaced"? Why exactly shouldn't we be wary of a belief system that 'others' us so absolutely and so vindictively? Seriously, it calls us "the worst of creatures". What part of such dehumanising language shouldn't we concerned about?

The worst part about all this is whenever we bring things like this up our concerns are met with accusations of 'bigotry' and 'Islamophobia'; as if our concerns have no merit whatsoever.

Again I'm not here to debate about Islam, I leave that up for the Muslims. I'm not about to go through this surgically to respond. This is your belief that does not make it right. Again, debate this with a knowledgeable Muslim not with an agnostic-theist.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

Again I'm not here to debate about Islam, I leave that up for the Muslims. I'm not about to go through this surgically to respond.

You shouldn't put up posts if you're not prepared to defend them. Aside from that you've been debating about Islam up until this point so actually it looks like you are here to do exactly that.

This is your belief that does not make it right.

What's this supposed to mean? My 'belief' is borne out by the observable evidence that in the majority of Islamic countries and Muslim-majority countries it is unsafe or even impossible for polytheists to worship freely combined with the fact Islamic scriptures describes polytheists and non-Muslims generally in very negative terms.

Again, debate this with a knowledgeable Muslim not with an agnostic-theist.

If you willingly confess you're not that knowledgeable about Islam why are you defending it?

 

[Stanyon]

I see a lot more Islamophilia than -phobia going on in many places.

I'd say this deserves a re-post, it is what I have seen as well.

 

[Notanumber]

This sums it up - http://thefederalist.com/2016/11/02/leftist-group-saying-islam-problems-makes-terrorist/

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

This sums it up - http://thefederalist.com/2016/11/02/leftist-group-saying-islam-problems-makes-terrorist/

The fact that this issue is almost a year old and is still unresolved is a serious problem. How many other people with legitimate concerns about Islam will be deemed 'extremists' by the regressive elements among the Left for voicing their perspectives?

 

[The_Fisher_King]

Plus, there is the disturbing fact that no one speaks for all of Islam (or even a large part)

Why do you find this disturbing? What's wrong with diversity within a particular tradition?

 

[The_Fisher_King]

The media might bear some of the blame here, since it's mainly their job to gather information and help to clarify the world situation.

Why is it mainly their job to do so?

 

[The_Fisher_King]

It is hardly bigotry to be scared of an organisation with stated aims to kill or enslave you. I find that offensive.

Sorry, just to clarify, which particular organisation are you referring to here?