Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

[Popcorn]

Do unto others.

Answer my questions and I will answer yours.

Regards
DL

Do you know what you're asking?

 

[Popcorn]

When your God is out there somewhere as most believe, you are correct.

As a Gnostic Christian, I am God so I have no problem having Gnosis make me God.

Let me explain using Christian and Jewish myths.


This Gnostic Christian’s apology for calling myself God.

Adam and Eve became as Gods when they gained a moral sense and no longer had their mind cut off from intelligent thought. As our primordial ancestors, we inherit that same trait even though Christianity wrongly thinks that to be evil and a fall. Retaining dominion over the earth, humans never revoked this inherited trait of a moral sense, --- and the right for man to judge himself. Jesus highlights this when he took the seat of judgement at God’s right hand.

When I use terms like “I am God”, or “you are God”, I am not speaking of the traditional miracle working God of scriptures and myths. He does not exist as far as we can know as he has never made an appearance to prove his reality.

What I am trying to convey to you by saying that you are a God in your own right is to be master of yourself and you need not be a sheep. You can, as Jesus says, pick up your burdens and responsibilities for your sins and follow his mind set. Be a shepherd. Lead by example.

What I am trying to convey is that the only God you can ever know is the good you find within yourself. It's your ideal of God and of the Jesus or Christ mind. That is quite different from me or someone thinking they are the traditional creator God, or thinking that they are more than anyone else. Both Jesus and the Christ in these myths are for equality. Not the misogyny that we presently enjoy. That is another topic though. We are to be co-equal with Jesus.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Jesus would explain this concept as one just seeing that they have joined God’s Divine Council by embracing his own Christ mind. Or better said, as this is the more eastern Jesus, we activate our pineal gland and open our third eye.

Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Divine Council - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Regards
DL

Having a skill to go from forum to forum making clever sayings and assuming yourself to be everyone else's first person pronouns as you stroke your ego is nowhere even close to being God, little one. When you are ready to know, then I shall teach you, and it shall be the hardest lesson you've ever faced. Until then, go in peace.

 

[Desert Snake]

A plain old serpent is described in the narrative. Later it speaks through supernatural satanic control thanks to God giving Satan the power to deceive us all.

Quite the gift for her rebellion in heaven.

Something seems wrong with that.

Thoughts?

Regards
DL

OK. This still comes under freewill, which, Adam and Eve, both had. Technically, I think that the serpent was more, tempting Eve, than 'tricking' her. This is clearly indicated, imo, with the fact that they get kicked out of the garden.

 

[roger1440]

Is it a sin to want to open one’s eyes instead of being blind?

No.

“And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light. Gen 1:4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness.” (Gen 1:3-4)

“I will lead the blind by ways they have not known, along unfamiliar paths I will guide them; I will turn the darkness into light before them and make the rough places smooth. These are the things I will do; I will not forsake them.” (Isaiah 42:16)

 

[moriningstar]

Hello, am not a Christian

Can you show how does the bible support the statement you made ? Didn't Adam and Eve follow the advice of Satan according to the bible ?

(Ha)satan is a Christian creation and doesn't exist outside of the Christian bible. Second point, an all-knowing all-powerful god that sets in motion a history that he designs and then condemns others for is a mental case.....at best.

 

[moriningstar]

(Ha)satan is a Christian creation and doesn't exist outside of the Christian bible. Second point, an all-knowing all-powerful god that sets in motion a history that he designs and then condemns others for is a mental case.....at best.

Sorry, I should of said that the fallen from grace (ha)satan doesn't exist outside of the Christian bible.

 

[Greatest I am]

No not to me. That's your fabrication stuck on what I actually said which was this, "But what exactly was the commandment in Genesis? Not to seek knowledge of any kind, or was it specific knowledge, the "knowledge of good and evil"?" I never made up that the tree of the knowledge of good and evil was a moral sense. You just made that up. I did not say that.

Do you think you know what the tree of the knowledge of good and evil means? I'll repeat what I said since you didn't read it the first time around, "So it wouldn't have been about not being blind, that knowledge itself was hidden, but the knowledge that they are separate from God, knowing good and evil in themselves". It's a metaphor to describe the cost of waking up to our own separate self. Again, I explicitly said, "For right or for wrong, man choose to open his eyes to his nakedness", which means it's simply the consequence of choosing this sort of existential angst, the awareness you are separate from the world. This has nothing to do with a moral sense.


It wouldn't. That's not what I said. You said that and imagined it must be what I said despite what I wrote.


You are so literal. I did use the word metaphor multiple times in my post, which you apparently missed as well. Did you read my post, or just assume after two words what I was saying and fill in the rest with your own ideas of what I said? I said explicitly that it seems reasonable to assume that since the tree of the knowledge of good and evil was clearly a metaphor as there is no such thing as a literal knowledge fruit on a tree that grows under the sun, that the other trees were also "knowledge" trees. It was this particular metaphoric "fruit" that they were warned about but, but the rest of the "knowledge trees" were freely available to them. Which means they were not blind and ignorant and brain dead. Hell, you could actually argue Adam and Eve were doing science, since they named species of animals and created classification systems!

So you tell me, what does the knowledge of good and evil really mean, that in the day you eat of it you will surely "die"? Morality? I don't think so. That doesn't follow. That doesn't make sense. Look a little deeper, then get back to me with what you come up with.

I replied initially as I did because I knew we would likely have this type of discussion. I did not think we would get far because of our styles but an willing to give it a try.

The tree of knowledge to me is the tree of knowledge of everything as all things are subject to good and evil.

Knowing good and evil is also having or gaining a moral sense. In this case, as good as Gods.
Gen 3;22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil:

If we cannot agree with these points we are not on the same page.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

God created us to be always reliant on him, yes.

Train a boy in the way he should go;
Even when he grows old he will not depart from it.
- Proverbs 22:6

The fear of Jehovah is the beginning of wisdom,
And knowledge of the Most Holy One is understanding.
- Proverbs 9:10

Trust in Jehovah will all your heart,
And do not rely (Lit., "lean.") on your own understanding.
In all your ways take notice of him,
And he will make your paths straight.
- Proverbs 3:5,6

"Let your love be without hypocrisy. Abhor what is wicked; cling to what is good. In brotherly love have tender affection for one another. In showing honor to one another take the lead. Be industrious, not lazy. Be aglow with the spirit. Slave for Jehovah. Rejoice in the hope. Endure under tribulation. Persevere in prayer."
- Romans 12:9-12

Slave for Jehovah. Persevere in prayer. Yes this is a form of voluntary slavery. That does not make us defective. Rather it trains us in applying practical wisdom.

Once the "inclination to do bad" is removed we will no longer be prone to harm ourselves. It was never God's plan that we suffer a life of futility. But the issue of God's right to rule was raised. Was man better off independent? Rather then exterminating the rebels, he allowed time for the Devil to attempt to prove his argument. Once the issue is settled completely, things will revert to God-rule, instead of otherman-rule. The difference in quality is noted here:

"All of this I have seen, and I applied my heart to every work that has been done under the sun, during the time that man has dominated man to his harm."
- Ecclesiastes 8:9

"Furthermore, our human fathers used to discipline us, and we gave them respect. Should we not more readily submit ourselves to the Father of our spiritual life and live? For they disciplined us for a short time according to what seemed good to them, but he does so for our benefit so that we may partake of his holiness. True, no discipline seems for the present to be joyous, but it is painful; yet afterwards, it yields the peaceable fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it."
- Hebrews 12:9-11

"God created us to be always reliant on him, yes. "

So God's ultimate job is to be a baby sitter for mankind.

Not a very ambitious God that.


As above so below.


Do you have children and do wish that they be forever below whatever you are?

Personally I have 4 sons and if they do not end better than I, and above whatever I am, then I have failed as a parent.

If your God cannot even get his children to his level then he is less responsible than a human parent.

Do you agree.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

First of all, understand that a lot of ancient thinking secular and religious would be politically incorrect today. It would be called; sexist, racist, homophobic, etc.. Your point has nothing to do with the Bible specifically; the Bible was just the product of a different time period and intelligent people today can deal with and understand that.

Intelligent people do.

We are talking about idol worshipping Christians and Muslims, not intelligent people.

Christians and Muslims have institutionalized homophobia and misogyny. Not too bright or just that.

Christianity and Islam are still not politically correct and quite backward in their inequality thinking.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

Sin for Christians seems kind of vague. For Jews it's fairly simple. Sin is a transgression against God's laws.

For Christians, sin is often defined as missing the mark.

So for a Jew, what does seeking knowledge have to do with sin?

For a Christian I would guess it means false Gods, false beliefs. Maybe seeking truth outside of the Bible? Because you doubt the truth of the Bible so you seek and choose to accept false knowledge.

Your view should be the same for Christians as seeking knowledge is not to miss the mark. It is to do the right thing when one has none as A & E did.

Christians somehow looked at the same Jewish myth that Jews saw as the elevation of man while Christians reversed that initial view to a fall.

Christians cannot explain their view in any coherent and intelligent way.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

Not to some of the early Gnostic traditions or paganism.

True. That was good and allowed until Constantine bought the church and sent it out to kill dissent and burn the scriptures they did not like. That helped usher in the Dark Ages of free thought and Inquisition.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

For me if there is such thing as sin, then not seeking knowledge would have to be a sin, why would we want to stay dumb ?.

I am guessing that Christians would prefer to be blind and in ignorant bliss for eternally instead of having a shorter life being able to think and be aware of all the aspects of life.

Christians are conditioned to see the world as evil while Gnostic Christians look at reality in our way Universalist way.

Jesus said, "If those who attract you say, 'See, the Kingdom is
in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they
say to you, 'It is under the earth,' then the fish of the sea will
precede you. Rather, the Kingdom of God is inside of you, and it is
outside of you. [Those who] become acquainted with [themselves]
will find it; [and when you] become acquainted with yourselves, [you
will understand that] it is you who are the sons of the living
Father. But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty
and it is you who are that poverty."

Here is a mind exercise. Tell me what you see when you look around. The best that can possibly be or an ugly and imperfect world?

Candide.
"It is demonstrable that things cannot be otherwise than as they are; for as all things have been created for some end, they must necessarily be created for the best end.”

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

Sin means to miss the mark.

When our conscious and subconscious minds become imbalanced and separated, we are no longer whole.

Our conscious mind will impregnate the subconscious mind with a seed of thought, knowledge, desire that we dwell on and give rise to our created world of reality and ego.

Knowledge "of" good and evil are labels that our ego's apply and judge things by. There really is no such things as good and evil. We become judgemental, emotional, justify excuses, point fingers, blame, etc.

When the divine marriage occurs between conscious, and subconscious, and two become one and whole, one realizes this truth of life and finds true life.

A life without judgements is not a life anyone would want. Judgements are an expression of our desires and to not desire anything is to be brain dead.

I do not mind seeking nothing in meditation. That clears out garbage, but to seek nothing when not meditating is to ignore life.

Let me pick an example you will find foolish but exemplifies how we cannot go about without judgement.

If you decide to go for a walk, you judge the sidewalk to be safer than the street. You make such judgements 100 + times a day and to restrict what you will judge is a judgement call. You cannot help but judge. Judging not to judge is a judgement.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

Seeking wisdom and knowledge is fine, but the ways we go about this and going about what is knowledge "of" rather than knowing/experiencing is where the judgements, labeling, and assuming comes from ego what we perceive as true usually isn't, leaving us deceived.

Seeking must be done purely, humbly, and genuinely.

Hogwash. Humble is for losers who have not thought out there positions well. People like to hear that word though don't they.

Regards
DL

 

[leibowde84]

Hello, am not a Christian

Can you show how does the bible support the statement you made ? Didn't Adam and Eve follow the advice of Satan according to the bible ?

He is saying that the Bible in several places encourages the seeking of truth or "knowledge". Yet, in the garden, Adam and Eve are punished for eating from the tree of knowledge. They instantly realize they are naked, afraid, at risk, etc. This knowledge takes them farther from God, which is bad. So, from the Garden, it seems like God is against us knowledge/understanding.

 

[Unification]

A life without judgements is not a life anyone would want. Judgements are an expression of our desires and to not desire anything is to be brain dead.

I do not mind seeking nothing in meditation. That clears out garbage, but to seek nothing when not meditating is to ignore life.

Let me pick an example you will find foolish but exemplifies how we cannot go about without judgement.

If you decide to go for a walk, you judge the sidewalk to be safer than the street. You make such judgements 100 + times a day and to restrict what you will judge is a judgement call. You cannot help but judge. Judging not to judge is a judgement.

Regards
DL

Sure, there are wise judgement calls for ourselves, individually, and then there are judging others and things we are unaware of. We are incapable usually of making wise judgement calls in the first place when our minds are separated and not one with ourselves and the absolute.

One is not seeking nothing. Has nothing to do with being brain dead.

Don't assume. Making judgement calls individually is not foolish, judging others is.

Thank "God" the fictional characters Adam and Eve ate the fruit.

 

[Unification]

Hogwash. Humble is for losers who have not thought out there positions well. People like to hear that word though don't they.

Regards
DL

That's an example of a very poor judgement, and of a condescending, egotistical nature.

 

[Greatest I am]

(Ha)satan is a Christian creation and doesn't exist outside of the Christian bible. Second point, an all-knowing all-powerful god that sets in motion a history that he designs and then condemns others for is a mental case.....at best.

Perfect.

Regards
DL

 

[Sabour]

He is saying that the Bible in several places encourages the seeking of truth or "knowledge". Yet, in the garden, Adam and Eve are punished for eating from the tree of knowledge. They instantly realize they are naked, afraid, at risk, etc. This knowledge takes them farther from God, which is bad. So, from the Garden, it seems like God is against us knowledge/understanding.

Thanks for explaining

 

[leibowde84]

Thanks for explaining

You are very welcome.