Is it antisemitic to use the term "Jew" as a synonym for "Nationalist" or is it fine?

[Zulk-Dharma]

Great answer.

Your answer is far from great.

 

[Deadtroopers]

I asked some of my German friends and they kept using the term "Jude" for nationalism.

Is it antisemitic or fine?

What do you mean? Or rather what did they mean: Jude meaning Israeli or Jude meaning any kind of nationalist or what . Your not making any sense lad.

 

[Deadtroopers]

When you say Nationalist are you specifically referring to Israel as a 'Jewish' nation in terms of it's ethnicity?

Generally I wouldn't because it ties such a close link between ethnicity as a basis for nationhood and as such has racist connotations regardless as to whether it is used favorably or unfavorably. I would use the term 'Israel' to describe the territory of a nation state, and 'Jewish' to refer to the religion. I would ignore the ethnicity entirely, in much the same way British or French means 'living in Britain or France' rather than of 'British Decent' or 'French Decent'. it's not something that's come up before.

The Israelis themselves define their state in ethnic, sectarian terms, just as you will hearAfrican-Americans referring to each othe as "******".
Your being silly trying to say that the world is different than it actually is.

 

[4consideration]

Like when someone call one for Jew because they are greedy, these German friends of mine used the term Jew to refer to nationalism - probably coming from the stereotype/common trait of Jews being greedy and nationalistic.

Common trait of Jews being greedy?

It looks to me like you're just using an excuse of your "friends" saying stuff so you can say nasty stuff about Jews. I don't think it's even a clever attempt at it.

 

[Levite]

I asked some of my German friends and they kept using the term "Jude" for nationalism.

Is it antisemitic or fine?

Maybe anti-Semitic. Probably.

I'd be more concerned about the fact that it is ignorant and stupid, since the word Jew has a specific meaning, and it has nothing to do with nationalism (a concept that postdates the inception of the word by centuries, if not millennia). It is as accurate as using the terms "tungsten" or "candle" or "zebra" for "nationalism."

Like when someone call one for Jew because they are greedy, these German friends of mine used the term Jew to refer to nationalism - probably coming from the stereotype/common trait of Jews being greedy and nationalistic.

Now this, on the other hand, is just plain old outright anti-Semitic.

 

[Laika]

The Israelis themselves define their state in ethnic, sectarian terms, just as you will hearAfrican-Americans referring to each othe as "******".
Your being silly trying to say that the world is different than it actually is.

The use of ethnicity as a definition of statehood has political consequences which means that a nation is defined based on exclusivity and hostility towards the "other". It is inherently racist and an implicit acceptance of the desirability of segregation along racial lines either between nations or within them. If that's how things work, that sounds like something worth changing.

 

[gsa]

So I clicked on the link to your "poem," and I could not find it (error message). So curious, I googled (first "the jew a poem religious forums" then I used the first verses of the "poem" to get more verses). This is what came through:

"The Jew - He wants money and land, he want no love. His nose is shaped as the number 6, his hair is black. They have no heart and the third ...

That is pure anti-Semitism, and you know it, assuming that is what was written. So please don't pretend otherwise.

 

[Deadtroopers]

So I clicked on the link to your "poem," and I could not find it (error message). So curious, I googled (first "the jew a poem religious forums" then I used the first verses of the "poem" to get more verses). This is what came through:

"The Jew - He wants money and land, he want no love. His nose is shaped as the number 6, his hair is black. They have no heart and the third ...

That is pure anti-Semitism, and you know it, assuming that is what was written. So please don't pretend otherwise.

I am not sure how you go about it; but this excuse for a human neeeds to be reported and banned. I am slapping my wrists for letting myself be sucked into his nonsensical bowel flushings.

 

[gsa]

I am not sure how you go about it; but this excuse for a human neeeds to be reported and banned. I am slapping my wrists for letting myself be sucked into his nonsensical bowel flushings.

RF can't exist without tolerating intolerance, so I don't know that you can be banned for this (moderators can chime in). All that I can say is that anyone who can write something like this, or suggest that greed and nationalism are a "common trait" of Jews, is harboring some anti-Semitic feelings.

 

[Zulk-Dharma]

So I clicked on the link to your "poem," and I could not find it (error message). So curious, I googled (first "the jew a poem religious forums" then I used the first verses of the "poem" to get more verses). This is what came through:

"The Jew - He wants money and land, he want no love. His nose is shaped as the number 6, his hair is black. They have no heart and the third ...

That is pure anti-Semitism, and you know it, assuming that is what was written. So please don't pretend otherwise.

The poem quotes a socialist saying that - I didn't say it myself, it's not antisemitic in context.

 

[gsa]

This was one of the reasons that inspired me writing a poem called "The Jew."

I thought you said you wrote the poem, as this post indicates?

 

[Zulk-Dharma]

Common trait of Jews being greedy?

All humans are greedy, it's a common trait everywhere, a natural way of living.

 

[4consideration]

All humans are greedy, it's a common trait everywhere, a natural way of living.

Certainly, all humans have the potential toward greed. I don't think that was what the statement I quoted from you implied.

Just for clarity, if you had simply said, "stereotype" and not "stereotype/common trait," I probably would have thought you were only talking about a stereotype used by others -- which I recognize other people do sometimes use. However, with the addition of "common trait" it seemed you were saying it is a common trait particular to Jews.

And...I had read your poem, so I was likely interpreting through the lens of ideas I've seen you present recently.

 

[Zulk-Dharma]

Certainly, all humans have the potential toward greed. I don't think that was what the statement I quoted from you implied.

Just for clarity, if you had simply said, "stereotype" and not "stereotype/common trait," I probably would have thought you were only talking about a stereotype used by others -- which I recognize other people do sometimes use. However, with the addition of "common trait" it seemed you were saying it is a common trait particular to Jews.

And...I had read your poem, so I was likely interpreting through the lens of ideas I've seen you present recently.

I said "stereotype/common trait," these two descriptions were used respectively for each of the two explanations. [note #1]

When someone says "Jews are greedy," it's stereotype and antisemitic. When someone says "Jews are nationalists," it's a common trait and not antisemitic, but fine.

Note #1: This is what I mean: (Color green is immaterial, the blue is greedy and the red is nationalist)

Like when someone call one for Jew because they are greedy, these German friends of mine used the term Jew to refer to nationalism - probably coming from the stereotype/common trait of Jews being greedy and nationalistic.

I don't think you read my full poem.

 

[Zulk-Dharma]

I am not sure how you go about it; but this excuse for a human neeeds to be reported and banned. I am slapping my wrists for letting myself be sucked into his nonsensical bowel flushings.

You cannot come to conclusions from reading a partial/misquoted citation of the full poem.

 

[4consideration]

I said "stereotype/common trait," these two descriptions were used respectively for each of the two explanations. [note #1]

When someone says "Jews are greedy," it's stereotype and antisemitic. When someone says "Jews are nationalists," it's a common trait and not antisemitic, but fine.


Note #1: This is what I mean: (Color green is immaterial, the blue is greedy and the red is nationalist) .

OK. I see what you're saying. It's different than how it appeared to me.

I still disagree, in part with what you are saying here, though. I don't agree that it's fine when someone says, "Jews are nationalists" because it's a generalization I don't think applies to the Jews I know, so I would argue that as being inaccurate, and therefore, not fine. I can't speak for how Jews may feel about this, because I am not Jewish. I just think if my friends were making such statements I'd be inclined to disagree.

I don't think you read my full poem.

I read the poem you posted on RF. I read it twice.

 

[Zulk-Dharma]

OK. I see what you're saying. It's different than how it appeared to me.

I still disagree, in part with what you are saying here, though. I don't agree that it's fine when someone says, "Jews are nationalists" because it's a generalization I don't think applies to the Jews I know, so I would argue that as being inaccurate, and therefore, not fine. I can't speak for how Jews may feel about this, because I am not Jewish. I just think if my friends were making such statements I'd be inclined to disagree.

I did say a common trait, not a vital trait in Jews. I suppose there are some few Jews that are not nationalistic, and of course self-hating Jews are also an exception, but the immense majority are loyalist to being Jewish and it's quite common, albeit not all Jews are nationalistic.

However, feel free to have your opinion on that it's not fine, I think it is.

 

[Deadtroopers]

You cannot come to conclusions from reading a partial/misquoted citation of the full poem.

No mate, you're back pedalling furiously and trying to unload it on others but you're a rascist bigot by your own painting.

 

[Zulk-Dharma]

No mate, you're back pedalling furiously and trying to unload it on others but you're a rascist bigot by your own painting.

You're unable to refute this maturely and instead personally attacking me, dishonestly.

I have reported your post and hope it's subject to moderation.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Without full context, I don't know if it's anti-Semitic, but it's definitely misguided and an incorrect view.

Yes and I agree. No one says that I am a "German of African decent," since we all evolved from there - it's in itself nationalism to say you're Jewish just because of your ancestry, but otherwise have no connection to Judaism or Israel.

I've wondered how other countries do that. Here in America, as long as you're white and have had a family here for a couple generations, you get to be just a regular American. But if you're black, even if you have family who has been here a couple hundred years, you do not get to be just a regular American and we all insist on creating this label that distinguishes white Americans from "other" Americans.