Is It Even Possible to Reconcile God with Evolution?

[Omtita]

That's an extreme oversimplification of the science behind it. I've taken some classes in the subject and looked behind the veil, so to speak, without having to go too far or too deep into it, and it might sound like comparing bones is something that's done hastily and simplistic the way you say it, but it's not. I'm not going to entertain a discussion in this thread about it, so that's my last words on it.

Ahhh . . . the old non-debate debate. Well played.

And on the other topic about reading the Bible literally, I was a hard-core fundamentalist and literalist for 30 years. I never was a liberal Christian, but rather the extreme other end of the spectrum. Things changed, however, and I can today appreciate the Bible from a non-literal viewpoint even as a non-Christian now. The world makes more sense when you can incorporate all of it into one view.

I have to admit, that seems to work for a lot of people. Gives them a warm fuzzy sort of feeling deep down inside. I prefer the literal approach, it is, in my opinion, far more rewarding, for example it took me to the following which I offer you for quick consideration. Not for debate, no need to respond, you may not even want to read it.

Bible Dating

 

[Ouroboros]

It does seem that the religious mindset often perceives improvement of cognitive abilities as a bad thing.

Blessed are the ignorant, you know.

 

[Omtita]

It does seem that the religious mindset often perceives improvement of cognitive abilities as a bad thing.

It depends on the source.

 

[Ouroboros]

Ahhh . . . the old non-debate debate. Well played.

Old? Not that old. The debate did exist 100 years ago, and was dismissed because of evidence, but has only been brought back by fundamentalist extremists.

I have to admit, that seems to work for a lot of people. Gives them a warm fuzzy sort of feeling deep down inside. I prefer the literal approach, it is, in my opinion, far more rewarding, for example it took me to the following which I offer you for quick consideration. Not for debate, no need to respond, you may not even want to read it.

Bible Dating

I went to one year Bible school (kind'a like a seminary) in 87-88. So no thanks. I got my fill of it. Several of my siblings are still literalist fundamentalists, but I can say I found peace and content in really learning how the world works instead of dwelling on ancient tales. Take them for what they are, and learn from the spirit of the words instead of the letters.

 

[Omtita]

Blessed are the ignorant, you know.

Why? Because they don't have to argue with people like you two?

 

[Omtita]

Old? Not that old. The debate did exist 100 years ago, and was dismissed because of evidence, but has only been brought back by fundamentalist extremists.

Now THAT is funny!

I went to one year Bible school (kind'a like a seminary) in 87-88. So no thanks. I got my fill of it. Several of my siblings are still literalist fundamentalists, but I can say I found peace and content in really learning how the world works instead of dwelling on ancient tales. Take them for what they are, and learn from the spirit of the words instead of the letters.

Many, many people sucked into false religion (what religion was ever true even to itself?) jumped out of the frying pan and into the fire.

 

[metis]

To me, the answer is both yes and no. Is it possible to be a theist and accept evolution? Of course. However, where the difference lies is significant: science is based on using objective testing techniques and observation, but religious beliefs are based on neither.

 

[Riverwolf]

You cannot render a verse as allegorical or unimportant because science has disproved it.

Why not?

For millenia Christians asserted Genesis as being real and historical.

You sure about that?

Where in the religious texts do they claim that any portion of it is allegorical? The Bible dives into allegory at times but many things are obviously never stated to be allegory.

Nor are they stated to be literal, either.

The Phantom of the Opera book claims that the Opera Ghost is real right on the first page. Are we to take it as real, then?

I am not insisting on literalism. Not everything can be taken literal in the Bible because some things are allegorical. But when I say allegorical I do not mean the usage of allegory for mere convenience. You do not expunge entire chapters.

And yet many theologians throughout all the history of Christianity have done that time and time again. The Protestant Bible (the one most people in the US are familiar with) has fewer books in it than the Catholic Bible, and the Ethiopian Bible includes the Book of Enoch.

That's not even going into figures like Marcion, who created the first Christian Bible: containing a heavily edited version of Luke's Gospel (all references to the Jewish Bible taken out), and ten of Paul's letters. The entire Jewish canon (such as Genesis) was left out entirely, because Marcion felt that the Jewish God was a completely different entity than the Father that Jesus spoke of.

 

[Riverwolf]

The Bible and religious texts in general are also implied knowledge and the usual implication is anything but fiction although there are exceptions and this only applies to Dharmic religions and some pagan cults.

Seeing as Hinduism is the third largest religion in the world, and Buddhism the fourth, I hardly think calling those exceptions is entirely accurate. Especially considering folks like myself: I do not identify as a Buddhist, since I don't practice its methodology, but I don't really disagree with most of what I've seen of the Buddha's teachings. You also leave out syncretic religions, not all of which are modern. Zen Buddhism is a syncretic religion: Chinese Chán Buddhism with Japanese Shintoism. Modern-day Japan is also quite syncretic in its social rituals, including elements of Christianity. Sikhism could also be seen (as I do) as a syncretic religion between Islam and certain types of Hinduism.

I also wonder at your use of the word "cult", here. I'm Asatru, a Pagan religion, but belong to no Troth or Tribe(organized or otherwise). I follow pretty individually. Am I part of a cult?

 

[outhouse]

Why? Because they don't have to argue with people like you two?

Its pretty obvious you don't have a clue what your talking about.

Start bringing credible sources to back your imaginative statements.

 

[outhouse]

The real problem is they don't think for themselves.

The real problem is the same problem worldwide. Lack of education.


Why do you promote lack of education, and fantasy and mythology?


Why do you think you know more then every professor in the world?

 

[Ouroboros]

Many, many people sucked into false religion (what religion was ever true even to itself?) jumped out of the frying pan and into the fire.

Yes. And this recent wave of extremist fundamentalist religions is terrible. They're the falsest of them all.

 

[Father Heathen]

One of the major problems I have with theistic evolution is that is so unnecessary and so illogical. I believe in God but why would an all knowing god feel the need to interfere with or guide this process? God doesn't. If God is a utilitarian (which I believe is true) then God does not need to interfere or guide with biological evolution.

I'm my opinion, if there exist a force that fits the moniker "god", I think that science, nature, the universe, etc. would be facets of god.

 

[Sapiens]

The basic issue is that religion(s) bit off more than it could chew when it attempted to explain the natural world. In time science broke off nibbles, then chunks, then huge pieces, that hurdling down decimated one religious truism after another. We are in the "final days" of religious dogma concerning the origin and functioning of the natural world. Those belief systems that find a way to get clear and concentrate solely on the areas that are outside scientific preview may survive ... the rest are toast, just a matter of time.

 

[Riverwolf]

The basic issue is that religion(s) bit off more than it could chew when it attempted to explain the natural world. In time science broke off nibbles, then chunks, then huge pieces, that hurdling down decimated one religious truism after another. We are in the "final days" of religious dogma concerning the origin and functioning of the natural world. Those belief systems that find a way to get clear and concentrate solely on the areas that are outside scientific preview may survive ... the rest are toast, just a matter of time.

No "may" about it. They will survive, or new ones will crop up. Religious behavior is part of who we are, even when no Gods are involved.

 

[outhouse]

No "may" about it. They will survive, or new ones will crop up. Religious behavior is part of who we are, even when no Gods are involved.

While true.

Sects like YEC are being stomped out at rather fast rates, by the death of the old who hold these values.

And how we teach our children.


Fundamentalist should be weeded out in evolution, buy unfortunately popularity dictates more so then reason education and knowledge.

We can dream of a day when education will not be attacked by religion.

 

[LuisDantas]

It could be said that it is only successful in effect because it is accepted.

Yes, it could be said.

And it would be so very wrong and ill-informed.

 

[LuisDantas]

Isn't that like an atheist saying if you think the Bible is true then please sit down and shut up?

Not seeing it, myself. Is it? How so?

Somehow that doesn't jive too well with the concept of original sin.

That is probably a good thing.

 

[Sapiens]

[Laughs] Well . . . I don't doubt that, though the same applies to the Bible. But there's a fine line between disagreement and ignorance when the faithful to science interpret and can barely tolerate descent. Sound familiar?

Interestingly, all of my friends and family, with the exception of my mother, are atheists who were taught evolution in school and not one of them believe it any more than they believe in God.

They are all atheists who believe in god. Interesting.

 

[Riverwolf]

While true.

Sects like YEC are being stomped out at rather fast rates, by the death of the old who hold these values.

And how we teach our children.


Fundamentalist should be weeded out in evolution, buy unfortunately popularity dictates more so then reason education and knowledge.

We can dream of a day when education will not be attacked by religion.

I don't have to dream about it at all.

What I dream for is the day that intellectual elitism isn't so widespread.