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Is it immoral for athletes to use the field as a pulpit?

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
I call bull ****.
When in uniform the soldier is an in view representative of the government.
Thus the "on duty" rules and regulations apply.

It isn't like they had no choice in signing up.

I don't see how you can call someone "on duty" when they're not wotking and not getting paid for their time, regardless of what they're wearing.

Also, I think it's a bit unfair and inherently nonsensical to say tbat because we limit their freedom to wear what they want off-duty, that this somehow makes it okay for us to limit their freedom to say what they want off-duty, too.
 

9Westy9

Sceptic, Libertarian, Egalitarian
Premium Member
So any speech (with potentially the normal exceptions for things like defamation and shouting "fire" in a crowd) is necessarily moral? Really?

Edit: Is there anything immoral about expressing an opinion? I'd say no. It's how you express an opinion that makes it moral/ immoral
 
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9Westy9

Sceptic, Libertarian, Egalitarian
Premium Member
There's a point where freedomm of speech becomes freedom to be a (insert word I can't use on this forum).

There's nothing wrong with expressing an opinion. However, there are right and wrong ways to express it.
 

Meow Mix

Chatte Féministe
Except that in a lot of situations, they're in uniform in their free time. If you tell a soldier that he can't express religious views while he's in uniform, then you're telling him that he has no free speech while on base and off duty, which could be all his free time for weeks or months while he's "in theatre". Even stateside, if he lives on base, you're effectively telling him that he doesn't have free speech in his own home.

I can see your reasoning here. There are different angles.

On one hand, for instance, a teacher (for instance) isn't supposed to go to a strip club. A CEO or spokesperson isn't supposed to be brazenly drunk in public.

I deliberately didn't mention things like teachers being unable to fraternize with students on Facebook, because that's a different issue, I think.

But I'm also a firm believer in the concept that once someone is off the clock, their personal business and personal affairs are theirs alone. I don't care if a teacher goes to a strip club (in fact, when I worked in one, I saw at least one "familiar face!") and I don't care if a spokesperson gets caught smoking herb as long as both do their jobs appropriately and well when they're on the job.

I guess the question is this: does a person in the military have the same rights as a civilian even when off-duty? Apparently not if they have to wear their uniform. I'm not making an argument here, I'm asking a question, because I really don't know: why do they still have to wear a uniform when off-duty?

If they have to wear a uniform because they have inherently different rights as part of the military, I'm iffy on the ethics of that -- but if they're wearing a uniform then they are representing the military and the government. They should therefore be subject to the due appropriateness that comes with that while the uniform is on.

Let me maybe bend my position a little bit from what I said earlier. Just as a politician (who represents our government) has the right to pray in public if they wish, then I guess it's okay for military people in uniform to pray in public. It's just what I would consider to be "bad form" if they get a little to flaunty with it.

For instance, on this blog, there is a picture that disturbs me as much as it disturbs the author. I have no idea how authentic this blog is or if the caption for the picture is correct, but here is the picture:

tebowingwithguns.jpg


The caption reads, "US troops pushing Christianity on Muslim children."

Now, I have no idea whether or not that's what's actually occurring in the picture. Regardless, I want to argue that even if a soldier is in his "free time" that he or she should have no business whatsoever proselytizing if his or her uniform is on. That disturbs me greatly, and that goes for any sort of proselytizing (even if a soldier is arguing against religion).

I think it might be okay, but pushing the envelope, for a soldier to pray or make a symbol/gesture of prayer or to say that they believe something or don't believe something.

But I think it would cross a huge red line for someone in uniform to endorse something or to argue against something religious.

There's a difference between "I love Jesus Christ" or "I'm an atheist in a foxhole" and saying "I love Jesus Christ, and you should too" or "Jesus has done so much for my life, he could do the same for you" and such.
 

WanderLust

Inquisitive One
My main issue is the amount of influence these guys have. Kids look up to football players and will take what he says to heart. To preach religion, especially in today's society with a position full of influence, you're pushing a strong idea with a lot of force.

Same goes for soldiers. I have a very Sun Tzu/Miyamato Musashi-esque view of soldiers. The second your uniform is on, the weapon is in your hands, and you step onto the battlefield, there is no God. The only thing protecting you is yourself. I for one, would fear fighting with someone very religious because their view of the situation will be somewhat altered by the fact that they have something to look forward to when they die. I'd rather be with a soldier who is fighting for survival because this life is all he has. Whoa, that was a tangent.
 

Antiochian

Rationalist
Yes, he has the constitutional right to do that, just like a beauty pageant winner has the right to flap her jaws about Jesus while holding roses and donning her diamond-studded tiara. It's protected by the 1st Amendment, but it's also really tacky.
 

Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
Yes, he has the constitutional right to do that, just like a beauty pageant winner has the right to flap her jaws about Jesus while holding roses and donning her diamond-studded tiara. It's protected by the 1st Amendment, but it's also really tacky.

Yes, just because you can doesn't mean you should.
 

javajo

Well-Known Member
I'd be more concerned if he were NOT allowed the freedom to express his religion, whatever that may be.
 
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