Is it ironic when religious people get upset over homosexuality because they think its unnatural?

[Heneni]

Um...homosexuality is not natural. You can try if you like to convince me otherwise, but I doubt you will be able to. There are many ways to skin a cat, but skinning a cat isnt natural.

Im talking about the sexual intercourse between two men or two women. As I have explained before, chromosones have a lot to do with the reason some women or men are gay.

Love
heneni

 

[Magic Man]

Um...homosexuality is not natural. You can try if you like to convince me otherwise, but I doubt you will be able to. There are many ways to skin a cat, but skinning a cat isnt natural.

Im talking about the sexual intercourse between two men or two women. As I have explained before, chromosones have a lot to do with the reason some women or men are gay.

Love
heneni

I was mainly trying to say that, just because you call one thing natural, doesn't mean that something else is unnatural. I state that homosexuality is natural, AND heterosexuality is natural. There is nothing wrong with that.

Now, as to the point of it being natural: Maybe a good place to start would be telling me why you think homosexuality is unnatural.

 

[Heneni]

I would explain why I think it is unnatural. But that would mean having to go into some graphic detail which i dont think is appropriate and will probably get me banned and I think the explanation would require an age restriction.

Perhaps it would be better if a homosexual person explains why thy think it is natural. Or even you can explain why you think it is natural. Up to this point only some references have been made to the fact that it happens in nature. I think it would be wise to stay clear from the word natural as well. Perhaps we should rather argue why gay people opt to have sex with the same sex.

Being gay is due to chromosones and frankly people that are gay cant help it. But sexual intercourse between two gay people is not necessarily an option they have to take. I guess Im trying to find out what the reason for intercourse between two men would be other than the cop out reason...it is natural.

Love
Heneni

 

[Magic Man]

I would explain why I think it is unnatural. But that would mean having to go into some graphic detail which i dont think is appropriate and will probably get me banned and I think the explanation would require an age restriction.

Perhaps it would be better if a homosexual person explains why thy think it is natural. Or even you can explain why you think it is natural. Up to this point only some references have been made to the fact that it happens in nature. I think it would be wise to stay clear from the word natural as well. Perhaps we should rather argue why gay people opt to have sex with the same sex.

Being gay is due to chromosones and frankly people that are gay cant help it. But sexual intercourse between two gay people is not necessarily an option they have to take. I guess Im trying to find out what the reason for intercourse between two men would be other than the cop out reason...it is natural.

Love
Heneni

If you believe that it is due to chromosomes and they can't help being gay, then it has to be natural. What people are reacting to is mostly Christians denouncing it because it's unnatural, as if God didn't make people that way. What you're saying is that, in Christian terms, God did make people that way. So, if God creating something a certain way makes it natural, and something going against the way God created it makes it unnatural, then people who are born gay (made that way by God) would be natural.

The reason people use animals in their defense of it is that most people don't believe animals have a choice in how they act. They act solely on instinct. So, if some animals are gay, it's not their choice, it's their nature. Then, you just apply the same thing to humans. Gay people are not gay by choice, it's their nature. Then, if it's their nature, it equates to it being natural.

 

[sandandfoam]

Um...homosexuality is not natural.

How do you know ?
Have you tried getting together with someone of the same gender? You might find it's more natural than you thought.

 

[Heneni]

Oh dear I cant seem to make my point so I will try once more.

Gayness is due to chromosones, not because of choice, so if you like, you can call it natural, sexual intercourse between two gay people is due to choice, hence it does not need to qualify as natural.

LOL. I think im going to back away from the light now...

Slowly...steady...

 

[Magic Man]

Oh dear I cant seem to make my point so I will try once more.

Gayness is due to chromosones, not because of choice, so if you like, you can call it natural, sexual intercourse between two gay people is due to choice, hence it does not need to qualify as natural.

LOL. I think im going to back away from the light now...

Slowly...steady...

If you're made gay (have the "gay" chromosomes), then how could you not act gay? If I'm born with black hair, then changing my hair color to blond is unnatural. If I'm born with gay chromosomes, then having sex with someone of the same gender is natural, while having sex with someone of the opposite gender is unnatural.

 

[texan1]

I would explain why I think it is unnatural. But that would mean having to go into some graphic detail which i dont think is appropriate and will probably get me banned and I think the explanation would require an age restriction.

Perhaps it would be better if a homosexual person explains why thy think it is natural. Or even you can explain why you think it is natural. Up to this point only some references have been made to the fact that it happens in nature. I think it would be wise to stay clear from the word natural as well. Perhaps we should rather argue why gay people opt to have sex with the same sex.

Being gay is due to chromosones and frankly people that are gay cant help it. But sexual intercourse between two gay people is not necessarily an option they have to take. I guess Im trying to find out what the reason for intercourse between two men would be other than the cop out reason...it is natural.

Love
Heneni

Because they desire the same intimacy and bond with another person of the same sex that you do with the opposite sex. Why should they be denied that?

In my opinion people cause themselves and people around them much greater harm if they deny themselves this and try to live a life that isn't natural to them. Look at Ted Haggarty for example. He spent his life preaching against homosexuality and trying to live life as a heterosexual married man. He eventually turned to drugs and using male prostitutes, causing pain and embarassment to his family and his followers. This type of thing happens quite often with people who try to deny who they naturally are. You can only live the lie for so long without being completely tormented.

And by the way, I hope you have never considered having oral or anal sex with a heterosexual partner. That is just unnatural.

And are you really concerned about the population? In my opinion it would make more sense to argue that homosexuality is one of God's or nature's way of controlling the exploding population growth.

 

[Heneni]

People could have same sex without them being gay too. So then what is that? Unnatural. Natural?

I believe that gay men can find women with characteristics that would suit them as a partner. We cannot define gay people by their choice of sexual partner, since many straight people experiment with these things as well.

Infact we should not label people at all according to their sexual preferences. It is a preference after all not a genetic absolute. Have we forgotten that we are not our genitals? So why use these to label people?

But that is just my view. From a religious point of view, sexual intercourse between two men are not considered to be up there i.t.o holy conduct.

I think that all the positions in that very unorthodox and frighteningly poorly animated book the kamasutra is frankly unnatural.:help:

Men ...um dont have the ...what you may call it...um...oh dear...they dont have a place to put the funky monkey without causing it seems in most cases, internal bleeding in the otherwise normal waste disposal unit of another man. And that, forgive me, if I dont seem over zealous about it, is unnatural. Any action that would require medical intervention is not natural. Wouldnt you agree? I'm not holding my breath. )(

I personally have no attraction towards other females. Perhaps females wonder about these things for the same reason a man would wonder why a women would choose another women for sexual gratification instead of them. Infact as I can recall, men are very much turned on by lesbian activity for the reason that they would like to join in and be the overcomer of both. LOL. :foot:

Anyway...I have not further insights into the gay or lesbian world. So please do continue without me.

Heneni

 

[Magic Man]

It is a preference after all not a genetic absolute.

I know you don't want to discuss it anymore, but I had to pull this out. You say people are born with "gay" chromosomes. That, to me, means that they are born gay. That completely contradicts this statement by you. If you go against your chromosomes, you're being unnatural. If your chromosomes tell you to be gay, then doing anything else would be unnatural. If you're born gay, then that means that your preference is sex with people of the same gender. You can decide to go against that, but that would be unnatural. Just like you going against your preference to sleep with men would be unnatural for you.

 

[blackout]

What is natural...
what is easy,
and desirable,
and fullfilling,
and apparant for one person...

is not so for how many others?

So the only things everyone needs to do to live...
eat, drink (water), go to the "bathroom", sleep,
and have some kind of shelter from the elements.

and so nothing else is blanketly "natural". Right?

This whole conversation seems rather forced to me.
But then for some people it is quite a natural thing to quibble
for no constructive or supportive reason(s) whatsoever.

Why do some people insist on telling other people
what their "nature" is? as if they know.

 

[Heneni]

And lead me not into temptation...

The chromosones affect how you walk, talk, the colour of your hair, the way you sit, the way you stand, the way you wave your hand, the way you brush your teeth, the way you sway your hips, your tone of voice, what you like to wear, not who you have sex with.

Will you deliver me now?

Love
Heneni

 

[blackout]

And lead me not into temptation...

The chromosones affect how you walk, talk, the colour of your hair, the way you sit, the way you stand, the way you wave your hand, the way you brush your teeth, the way you sway your hips, your tone of voice, what you like to wear, not who you have sex with.

Will you deliver me now?

Love
Heneni

The way you sway your hips,
the tone of your voice,
and what you wear....

quite definately affect who you might have sex with. :flirt:
and who might find you sexually attractive.

Sexy is in the eye of the beholder....
naturally.

 

[Magic Man]

And lead me not into temptation...

The chromosones affect how you walk, talk, the colour of your hair, the way you sit, the way you stand, the way you wave your hand, the way you brush your teeth, the way you sway your hips, your tone of voice, what you like to wear, not who you have sex with.

Will you deliver me now?

Love
Heneni

Then how is a chromosome gay? I don't understand how you say a chromosome is gay, but it doesn't influence who the person has sex with. That's exactly what a gay chromosome would do. A red-hair chromosome would influence the hair color of the person, and a gay chromosome would only mean that that person wants to have sex with people of the same gender. What do you mean when you say a chromosome is gay?

 

[GadFly]

Here is the truth on the matter speaking from a religious point of view, which I think is scientific also. To date I know of no definitive study that says homosexuality is genetically related. Such a study may exist but I don't read or research in that area and may have missed it. But I don't think so because such a study would be made well known by the homosexual community.

Most people don't care if you are a homosexual. I don't care, but do not expect to respect you for doing something that I believe is a sin for that is my right to think it is wrong. Just leave me alone on that issue.

Is homosexual behavior natural? It's like alcoholism, is that natural? But people are addicted to alcohol and find it difficult to stay away from alcohol. But, if they want to live a normal and acceptable life in society, they must refuse to drink. I do not think same sex romance is natural but if you must have it, it is a free country. But don't blame Christians for thinking you are doing evil.

Christians who believe the Bible are going to think you are doing evil if you are homosexual. We believe like psychology that all behavior is learned. We do believe in predisposed urges like alcoholism. It is individual responsibility to resist certain predisposed urges. You can not rape and torture your neighbor simply because you get a predispose sadistic thrill from doing so. Fantasy is acceptable to society but if you take it beyond fantasy, we have electric chairs for that.

So, if you want to learn and practice homosexual behavior from the perverted urges you have within the guidelines outline here, go for it. But don't be so stupid to think you will ever be accepted as normal in a Christian society. That is what is unreasonable.
GadFly

 

[Magic Man]

Here is the truth on the matter speaking from a religious point of view, which I think is scientific also. To date I know of no definitive study that says homosexuality is genetically related. Such a study may exist but I don't read or research in that area and may have missed it. But I don't think so because such a study would be made well known by the homosexual community.

Most people don't care if you are a homosexual. I don't care, but do not expect to respect you for doing something that I believe is a sin for that is my right to think it is wrong. Just leave me alone on that issue.

Is homosexual behavior natural? It's like alcoholism, is that natural? But people are addicted to alcohol and find it difficult to stay away from alcohol. But, if they want to live a normal and acceptable life in society, they must refuse to drink. I do not think same sex romance is natural but if you must have it, it is a free country. But don't blame Christians for thinking you are doing evil.

Christians who believe the Bible are going to think you are doing evil if you are homosexual. We believe like psychology that all behavior is learned. We do believe in predisposed urges like alcoholism. It is individual responsibility to resist certain predisposed urges. You can not rape and torture your neighbor simply because you get a predispose sadistic thrill from doing so. Fantasy is acceptable to society but if you take it beyond fantasy, we have electric chairs for that.

So, if you want to learn and practice homosexual behavior from the perverted urges you have within the guidelines outline here, go for it. But don't be so stupid to think you will ever be accepted as normal in a Christian society. That is what is unreasonable.
GadFly

The difference is that rape, torture and alcoholism hurt others, homosexuality doesn't. Do you only believe it's evil because the Bible tells you so?

 

[McBell]

If you are not a homosexual I guess then you wont understand what they go through and what their though processes are, and so then its better to debate the matter with someone that is.

Opinion.
And a handy cop out for you.

Once again you say that homosexuality is abundant in nature. As I said before, i think it is odd to justify human behaviour based on what happens in the animal kingdom, since if we want to copy what animals do, we cant be picky and choosy, and then say that eating your ofspring or abandoning them is wrong, but we will accept homosexuall behaviour because it suits us.

You can lead a horse to water....

People could have same sex without them being gay too. So then what is that? Unnatural. Natural?

I believe that gay men can find women with characteristics that would suit them as a partner. We cannot define gay people by their choice of sexual partner, since many straight people experiment with these things as well.

Infact we should not label people at all according to their sexual preferences. It is a preference after all not a genetic absolute. Have we forgotten that we are not our genitals? So why use these to label people?

But that is just my view. From a religious point of view, sexual intercourse between two men are not considered to be up there i.t.o holy conduct.

I think that all the positions in that very unorthodox and frighteningly poorly animated book the kamasutra is frankly unnatural.:help:

You are going to have to provide YOUR personal definition of "Natural".

Men ...um dont have the ...what you may call it...um...oh dear...they dont have a place to put the funky monkey without causing it seems in most cases, internal bleeding in the otherwise normal waste disposal unit of another man. And that, forgive me, if I dont seem over zealous about it, is unnatural. Any action that would require medical intervention is not natural. Wouldnt you agree? I'm not holding my breath. )(

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/866110-post236.html

I personally have no attraction towards other females. Perhaps females wonder about these things for the same reason a man would wonder why a women would choose another women for sexual gratification instead of them. Infact as I can recall, men are very much turned on by lesbian activity for the reason that they would like to join in and be the overcomer of both. LOL. :foot:

So then by default you claim you are attracted to EVERY SINGLE male.
If there is even one male you are not attracted to, I.E. your father, brother.. Then you are also behaving in an unnatural (by your definition anyway) manner.

 

[Mike182]

i like that earlier in the thread, Heneni says she would rather debate this topic with someone who is actually gay... and then when one comes along, she ignored him taking her to task.

says it all folks. move along, nothing to see here.

 

[Mike182]

And lead me not into temptation...

The chromosones affect how you walk, talk, the colour of your hair, the way you sit, the way you stand, the way you wave your hand, the way you brush your teeth, the way you sway your hips, your tone of voice, what you like to wear, not who you have sex with.

Will you deliver me now?

Love
Heneni

please show me where you are getting your information on chromosomes. in fact, in a couple of days time, i'll post a new thread all about chromosomes, and we can compare notes! i'll post what i know about them, i'll dig up some decent scientific resources, and you can show me your sources of information.

i don't have the time at this very moment, but i think in a couple of days i will start a new thread to educate you a bit about chromosomes.

 

[texan1]

Christians who believe the Bible are going to think you are doing evil if you are homosexual.
GadFly

Do you know what reason the Bible gives for homosexuality being a sin? I'm asking because I honestly don't know. Is there a reason given? Or does it just say two men sleeping together is an "abomination"?