Is it Ok for a Poor Person to be Greedy if it's Ok for a Rich Person?

[David1967]

It's in SE Michiganistan, just SW of Ann Arbor.

So. Is a passport required to visit?

 

[Revoltingest]

So. Is a passport required to visit?

Yes, but as I told D Slayer, it's very restricted.
You must have $5.

 

[David1967]

Yes, but as I told D Slayer, it's very restricted.
You must have $5.

Pfft! What times dinner?

 

[Revoltingest]

Pfft! What times dinner?

Usually 7pm.

 

[BSM1]

Wanting more than one needs, and wanting it at the expense of others, would be an easy definition of greed.

Think of three co-workers. The first wants to be paid as much money as he can get, for doing as little work as possible, to get it. The second co-worker wants a fair wage for a day's work. And the third co-worker wants to make more money for himself, but to do it by finding ways to add value to the business enterprise. Thus, he improves his own income by improving everyone else's, too.

The first co-worker is just being greedy. The second co-worker is just being fair. And the third co-worker is being both fair, and ambitious.

The common lie being told by capitalists is that greed fuels ambition, and so it's a good thing. And many of us have fallen for this lie, because we don't recognize the difference between greed an ambition. And the difference is fairness: it's considering the well-being of others, along with our own. While greed disregards the well-being of others, for the sake of our own.

I don't think this fits your definition of greed. How does the first co-worker misplaced ambition come at the expense of the other two? This doesn't necessarily take money out of their pockets. See what I mean by trying to define this slippery greed beast?

 

[PureX]

I don't think this fits your definition of greed. How does the first co-worker misplaced ambition come at the expense of the other two?

His goal is to take as much wealth from the collective enterprise as possible, while generating as little of it as possible in return. This makes everyone else have to work harder to achieve the same level of income for the enterprise, and for themselves.

This doesn't necessarily take money out of their pockets. See what I mean by trying to define this slippery greed beast?

It takes money out of everyone's pockets. As it diminishes the ratio of income achieved to the effort expended, lowering the value being generated by the whole enterprise.

 

[BSM1]

His goal is to take as much wealth from the collective enterprise as possible, while generating as little of it as possible in return. This makes everyone else have to work harder to achieve the same level of income for the enterprise, and for themselves.
It takes money out of everyone's pockets. As it diminishes the ratio of income achieved to the effort expended, lowering the value being generated by the whole enterprise.

This is not greed by any stretch of the imagination. Worker 1 is only going to get so much money out of the system no matter what he does (worker 1 is more fraudulent than greedy in this case, IMHO). Workers 2 & 3 will also receive the same amount of money for their efforts no matter what worker 1 gets. To meet your definition of greed worker 1 would have to take away worker's 2 & 3 income, and this is simply not the case.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

It's in SE Michiganistan, just SW of Ann Arbor.

That isn't too far from here. I can make it an afternoon to leave here, go doodle all over Mr. Van, and be back home in time for dinner. About 8 hours for everything if I give myself four hours to use Mr. Van as my canvas.
And Mr. Van's side view mirror piercings are on the house. You won't be billed for them.

 

[Revoltingest]

That isn't too far from here. I can make it an afternoon to leave here, go doodle all over Mr. Van, and be back home in time for dinner. About 8 hours for everything if I give myself four hours to use Mr. Van as my canvas.
And Mr. Van's side view mirror piercings are on the house. You won't be billed for them.

You reminded me that I do need to caulk some piercings.
(Fasteners were removed.)

 

[Shadow Wolf]

That's not greed, that's just need. Greed begins when the need is fulfilled, and they still want more. Even as others go without.

You don't even know what was going on in the situations involving poor people that are greedy. Such as, how those I speak of are never grateful and never appreciate what is given to them, and when it comes to what they don't need they want a specific and usually more expensive option. They are pretty crappy people, and typically so lazy that one lost her food stamps because she over slept her early afternoon appointment. Do they have needs? Yeah. Does that exclude them being greedy? Hell no.

 

[PureX]

This is not greed by any stretch of the imagination. Worker 1 is only going to get so much money out of the system no matter what he does (worker 1 is more fraudulent than greedy in this case, IMHO). Workers 2 & 3 will also receive the same amount of money for their efforts no matter what worker 1 gets. To meet your definition of greed worker 1 would have to take away worker's 2 & 3 income, and this is simply not the case.

I'm really not understanding why we're debating this. The word "greed" is not difficult to understand. Sorry that I muddied the waters with those examples. I was trying to make the point that the significant difference between greed and ambition is the lack of concern for the welfare of others. Which is why Milton Friedman was full of crap when he declared "greed is good" back in the1970s, and so is every fool that's parroted him, since. (This is not aimed at you, it's just a general comment.)

 

[PureX]

You don't even know what was going on in the situations involving poor people that are greedy. Such as, how those I speak of are never grateful and never appreciate what is given to them, and when it comes to what they don't need they want a specific and usually more expensive option. They are pretty crappy people, and typically so lazy that one lost her food stamps because she over slept her early afternoon appointment. Do they have needs? Yeah. Does that exclude them being greedy? Hell no.

I used to get angry when I lived in Chicago, and got stuck behind a poor family going through a fast food drive-through. Every person in the car had to have their hamburger made special. And then they had to have a long debate about it with teller. But even though it was totally annoying, to me, I think I understood it. I think it was their way of making a small amount of money give them the greatest sense of importance, and speciality. Something that they did not get to experience often, in their everyday lives.

The ingratitude and selfishness to which you refer can have a lot of reasons behind it, that the rest of us don't recognize or understand. What looks like greed could be fear, or anger, or resentment caused by a lifetime of never having enough, and of other people always taking whatever they could steal an getting away with it. Or of the hopeless and crushed self-esteem that comes with growing up poor in a society that only values money. So these reactions may look like greed to us, and yet be a different driving force all together.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I used to get angry when I lived in Chicago, and got stuck behind a poor family going through a fast food drive-through.

Why? Taco Bell and Rally's/Checker's have a menu of cheap discount menu items by design.

The ingratitude and selfishness to which you refer can have a lot of reasons behind it, that the rest of us don't recognize or understand.

Over the past 8 months I've been floating at just above the poverty line, which is before I take out for gas and medical expenses which take about half my check. I do recognize and understand. My mom could squeeze blood out of a penny, and growing up into my early childhood years it was a treat getting to go to McDonalds. And it's always pretty much been that way any time I've lived on my own, and have depended heavily on gas station reward points for free gas and free food. And if you have scarce food at home, if you have a dollar in your pocket you buy a sandwich to eat. Or a can of soup, box of macaroni and cheese, eggs, bread, when you're poor you tend to be very aware of prices and find the cheapest. The quality, on the other hand, is an entire other issue, leading to the reason it is more expensive to be poor than rich. Used tires are not worth the money in the long run, but when that's all the money you have when you need it, it's all the money you have and you get used tires knowing they'll last comparatively much less longer than new tires.

So these reactions may look like greed to us, and yet be a different driving force all together.

Yes, I have known some very greedy poor people. But it shouldn't matter and take me, as one of them, to point out some of them are greedy ********. It's almost like saying a black person can't be racist and a woman can't be sexist. It doesn't work like that. A good example of what I talk about specifically is smoking and bumming a smoke. Smokers generally every once in awhile will ask to bum a smoke, mutually repairing the favor back and forth. And then you have some smokers who don't like asking for one, and then you have some who will smoke your entire pack if you don't tell them no. It works pretty much the same way for lower and middle class smokers. And that last group, often times that person in other areas always wants more and more, and won't keep it cheap if you offer to take them to a place like Burger King and will even the most expensive sandwich combo large sized even though a small is really all anyone needs.
And I what your saying about poor people who become wealthy becoming greedy. It could happen, but children who chronically starve tend to hoard and hide food, and will eat until they're stuffed when they can have all they want, and big lottery winners often end up bankrupt in a few years.

 

[BSM1]

I'm really not understanding why we're debating this. The word "greed" is not difficult to understand. Sorry that I muddied the waters with those examples. I was trying to make the point that the significant difference between greed and ambition is the lack of concern for the welfare of others. Which is why Milton Friedman was full of crap when he declared "greed is good" back in the1970s, and so is every fool that's parroted him, since. (This is not aimed at you, it's just a general comment.)

But my point is that no one can describe greed except in their own perception of someone else. For instance, if I were a needy person I may consider you "greedy" because your wasting time talking to an idiot like me on line instead of using that time in helping me survive.

 

[PureX]

But my point is that no one can describe greed except in their own perception of someone else. For instance, if I were a needy person I may consider you "greedy" because your wasting time talking to an idiot like me on line instead of using that time in helping me survive.

As an assessment of someone else, "greed" is subjective, because the assessment is subjective. But as a word representing an idea, "greed" is pretty clear and easy to understand.

 

[Shaul]

Oh, look, another “eat the rich” meme. It has never worked but it does keep the rabble entertained.

Do not pervert justice; do not show partiality to the poor or favoritism to the great, but judge your neighbor fairly. Leviticus 19:15